Yowza! What a call!

breadmonkey

clicky

phantom_lord

breadmonkey wrote:

clicky

He had a read.

breadmonkey

Is this really a good call though? I mean, how many times will he get this right?

bohsman

The A and K of diamonds being out there makes it easier, chances are he has Ax, also a good chance he would have made a bet that would be easier to call if hed had a big diamond.

Rb

True, particularly about the bet size.
Though, paired board with 4 to a flush out...Its definately not a call I'd of made anyway. Whether it was a good call or not, I'd be inclined to say not tbh.

NickyOD

He played the hand like a total fish.

Goodluck2me

would he play a house any differently? he wants a diamond to call. im sure hed have made a more callable bet thought yes as bohsman says.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

He played the hand like a total fish.

who?

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

who?

both of them!!

Hectorjelly

LOL, a player who is as good as Iveys does not vary the size of his bets inversely proportional depending on whether he wants to get called or not. Norwich Fan Rob said it to me once to me in a similar situation and I was amazed. You cant read someone like Ivey by thinking along level one poker thoughts, Hes not some chump from the merrion who luckboxed his way to a few tournament wins. The pot is 120k big or so, Ivey has 90k left. If he is betting here, as a value bet or a bluff its has to be all in.

Ivey played the hand very well - and the other guy played the hand in the best way possible against a super aggressive player. Sometimes really excellent players take the same line as total fish, but for good reasons. It makes no sense to the average player because they dont understand fish, or poker at the highest level, and so they cant distinguish them

cardshark202

I thought Ivey played it pretty well though I find it hard to fire the third bullet on the river. I thought the other guy played his hand pretty well postflop though I would often re-raise preflop.

dvdfan

Reminds me of this hand i played tonight in a $20 STT which my opponent didnt take too well and let me know hes feelings after the hands:D

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$20 - NL - 9 Seats 13375277-6 Holdem No Limit 20/40
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Hand Start.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 1 : gbaby69 has $1,900
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 2 : frogcatcher has $4,060
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 3 : Zebedee1981 has $2,340
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 4 : alspanku has $1,510
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 6 : morny has $1,960
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 7 : carrieb has $2,040
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 8 : Gary1606 has $2,250
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 9 : paddydawg has $1,940
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : gbaby69 is the dealer.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : frogcatcher posted small blind.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Zebedee1981 posted big blind.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Game [6] started with 8 players.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Nov 15 23:36:45] : Seat 6 : morny has Ac As
[Nov 15 23:36:47] : alspanku called 40
[Nov 15 23:37:00] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 2 min.
[Nov 15 23:37:00] : morny called 40 and raised 100
[Nov 15 23:37:08] : carrieb folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:13] : Gary1606 folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:16] : paddydawg called 140
[Nov 15 23:37:16] : gbaby69 folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:16] : frogcatcher folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:16] : Zebedee1981 folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:19] : alspanku called 100
[Nov 15 23:37:19] : Dealing flop.
[Nov 15 23:37:19] : Board cards [Kd Ad Jh]
[Nov 15 23:37:22] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min.
[Nov 15 23:37:22] : alspanku folded.
[Nov 15 23:37:27] : alspanku : bs
[Nov 15 23:37:32] : morny checked.
[Nov 15 23:37:32] : alspanku : river
[Nov 15 23:37:35] : paddydawg checked.
[Nov 15 23:37:35] : Dealing turn.
[Nov 15 23:37:35] : Board cards [Kd Ad Jh Qd]
[Nov 15 23:37:40] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min.
[Nov 15 23:37:50] : morny bet 200
[Nov 15 23:37:56] : paddydawg called 200 and raised 400
[Nov 15 23:38:00] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min.
[Nov 15 23:38:11] : It's your turn.
[Nov 15 23:38:11] : morny has 10 seconds to respond.
[Nov 15 23:38:11] : morny called 400
[Nov 15 23:38:12] : Dealing river.
[Nov 15 23:38:12] : Board cards [Kd Ad Jh Qd 8h]
[Nov 15 23:38:19] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min.
[Nov 15 23:38:22] : morny checked.
[Nov 15 23:38:30] : paddydawg bet 1,000
[Nov 15 23:38:39] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min.
[Nov 15 23:38:42] : morny called 1,000
[Nov 15 23:38:42] : Showdown!
[Nov 15 23:38:42] : Seat 6 : morny has Ac As
[Nov 15 23:38:44] : Seat 9 : paddydawg has 9c Jc :eek:
[Nov 15 23:38:44] : paddydawg has Pair: Jacks
[Nov 15 23:38:44] : Seat 6 : morny has Ac As
[Nov 15 23:38:44] : morny has 3 of a Kind: Aces
[Nov 15 23:38:44] : morny wins 3,680 with 3 of a Kind: Aces
[Nov 15 23:38:53] : Hand is over.
[Nov 15 23:38:53] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 2 Next level in: 8 min.
[Nov 15 23:38:53] : Level up. New stakes : 30/60
[Nov 15 23:38:53] : Level up. New stakes : 30/60
[Nov 15 23:38:53] : Stakes: 30/60 Current level: 2 Next level in: 8 min.
[Nov 15 23:38:54] : paddydawg : how can u call that? :rolleyes:


Now i had folded aces in an earlier STT today when i had half my stack invested and a 2nd queen came on the turn and i got raised heavy so im not afraid to drop AA or KK if i think im beaten.

It was early in the tourney so i had no reads but i had a gut feeling the queen hit 2 pair for him and not a straight or flush. My gut feeling was wrong because it was a total bluff and to be honest i should have folded it and 9 times out of 10 i probably would have, i looked and seen i would have 200 left if i made the call, the blinds were low and so i decided to take the gamble and won. He was left with 200 and after he calmed down:p he managed to build his stack and we were the last 2 left and ironically he outdrew me with an Ace high straight to take first.:o

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

Sometimes really excellent players take the same line as total fish, but for good reasons. It makes no sense to the average player because they dont understand fish, or poker at the highest level, and so they cant distinguish them

Ivey's turn bet is horrible. There nothing wrong with giving up a pot every once in a while. The river push only looks good because of the 4th diamond AND the fact that DIA didn't have one. How often will the guy not have a diamond or how often will Ivey push even when one doesn't come off?

I hate Dia's preflop call. So ****ing what if it's Phill Ivey? Trying to get to a showdown cheaply is not a viable plan against a player who won't let you. He should grow some balls and take advantage of his position with a big hand. I hate his call on the flop, I hate his call on the turn and he probably only calls the river because he's put under pressure by the clock.

fuzzbox

Nicky - as far as I see it, he DID take advantage of his position.

Raising does NOT take advantage of your position, and in fact it frequently nullifies your positional advantage (especially if money is relatively shallow).

I think both players played this very interestingly. I think Iveys river play is the easiest street for him - as surely Dia must fold AK/AQ etc. Dia has a really tough call, and I'm really not sure if I like it much, as he might lose by "accident" if Ivey has a bluff with a diamond.

Hectorjelly

How is Iveys turn bet horrible? its a perfect card to bluff at. Its an ace and it completes the flush draw, for many hands thats the worst card in the deck to come off. Its very rare that AKno diamond will call a bet on the flop. Similarly for the river, i think Ivey was planning to check fold unless the board changed; but that final diamond now makes a lot of hands less comfortable. Even if the guy has a low flush he cant be too confident. I think he picked up on how weak the guys hand was.

I dont understand your commments on position. With AK and position its standard play to flat call, reraising is mainly done out of position because the hand is so hard to play oop. Agaisnt a super aggro player the best way to play a hand is often to let him keep betting into you. If he had of raised at any stage in this hand he would of won a tiny pot. Ivey is a super player, but that doesnt mean you just have to try and pretend hes not there. You need to adjust your play to take advantage of his over aggro tendancies. He had a relavatively weak hand at each stage of the hand that really had value only as abluff catcher, and he played it very well because he is playing someone that will sometimes fire 4 barrells. By the river it had become a horrible call to have to make; but sometimes the best poker play doesnt lead to easy decisions.