Offering your seat to the old

mal1

I got on the train to Maynooth yesterday and luckily got myself a seat. Anyway, this elderly man got on a little later when there were no seats left. Like the gentleman that I am, i kindly offered my seat. He refused. This is not the first time that a pensioner has refused a seat when i offered it. Anyway, feeling fairly uncomfortable i just continued to read my book. A lady got on at the next station and was obviously annoyed that this man was standing. With a fairly aggressive tone she asked me to give the man my seat. I told her that i already had offered and that he had refused. She asked him again and he refused. I asked him again and he refused.

Walking off the train, i felt like the bad guy. What exactly can you do in this situation so that you don't look like the typical selfish 20 something guy??? Should I make a pensioner sit down even though a lot of them can be fairly stubborn??? Or should I just stand on the train in the future and avoid a repeat incident.

Finally, if you're a pensioner or a pregnant lady, please take the seat when offered. It might save me from being accosted by some annoyed passenger.

Red Alert

Passengers who are not directly involved in a situation (either the seat giver or taker) should refrain from becoming involved in any situation.

I just can't stand people who are chronically incapable of minding their own business.

kizzyr

That woman certainly managed to draw lots of attention to someone who obviously didn't want it, I think you should have given her a big kick on the shin as you were getting off the train, just to teach her to mind her own business.

stipey

I don't use public transport so much any more but in the past i would generally have offered the seat and, if the offer was refused, stand up anyway leaving the seat empty. If they want to take it at that point they can.

Also I found that actually standing up and taking a step away from the seat can make a big difference. Particulary if instead of offering them "your" seat you point out that "there is an empty seat there".

Just my €0.02

TempestSabre

Tell her to stop being ageist. Or tell them you've a bad back.

Victor

Limp off the next time.

For all she knew he has difficulties getting up and down.

murphaph

"People who are chronically incapable of minding their own business". I like that, gave me a chuckle!

Nice one Victor, that'd shorten her cough a bit alright! I also generally stand up and clear of 'the' seat so it's n longer 'my' seat, makes it easier for the infirm etc. to take it.

kizzyr

The first time I donate a pint of my finest red stuff to the BTSB I fainted and was a bit iffy for a while afterward. 35 minutes of lying down I decided to make a break for my freedom and got on the 39 back to Clonsilla. As it was rush hour time the bus was jammers and I was getting woozy again. This lovely old man spotted that all was not well and jumped up, grabbed me by the arm and put em sitting down. He was really funny, he made everyone stand back to give me some air, opened the window the whole lot. When I started to feel better I got up to give him his seat back and he refused point blank to take it but I did get some dagger looks from other people on the bus who got on afterward.

mal1

I think i will take stipey's advise and vacate the seat next time. Saves a lot of hassle. However, i know some pensioners (especially males) who rather stand. Might be a pride issue with them. They find more dignity in standing then having women fussing about them. Anyway, i often hear people complaining about old people and pregnant women standing in trains. Maybe the next time these people should think first before they interfere and realise that the person standing might have already been offered a seat. Young males are usually the easy target. I know some guys at work who rather stand in order to avoid an incident such as this. None of the ladies sitting around me offered the man a seat and none of them were confronted...

Kashkai

mal1 wrote:

I think i will take stipey's advise and vacate the seat next time. Saves a lot of hassle. However, i know some pensioners (especially males) who rather stand. Might be a pride issue with them. They find more dignity in standing then having women fussing about them. Anyway, i often hear people complaining about old people and pregnant women standing in trains. Maybe the next time these people should think first before they interfere and realise that the person standing might have already been offered a seat. Young males are usually the easy target. I know some guys at work who rather stand in order to avoid an incident such as this. None of the ladies sitting around me offered the man a seat and none of them were confronted...

Yeah, you're dead right about the "ladies". I use the Maynooth train every day and I've never seen any of the "ladies" get up off their over stuffed arses to give a seat to a pensioner, pregnant lady, infirm etc. My wife used to go on the train when she was heavily pregnant and the only people who ever offered her a seat where men, pensioners and schoolkids. She never was offered a seat by any of the "sisters". So much for female sisterhood. Selfish, self centred, head up their own arses most of them.

rubadub

Victor wrote:

Limp off the next time.

Class!
Many do have probs getting up & down as mentioned. Or need special seats esp, if they have a hip replacement, sometimes their knee is not to go above the hip.

It is more likely they will take it if you stood up. It can seem you are just being polite and really want the seat, like when somebody you dont really know is buying a round and asks you if you want a drink.

admiralofthefleet

i used to always give my seat up until i realised how rude old people can be, they expect to be given seats but then when they fill the seats beside them with their shopping they look at you as if you have 2 heads when you ask them to take it down so you can sit. and then they push and shove their way through a que to get on the bus. so since an argument with a very rude old woman i have stopped giving my seat up, i would still definitely give my seat to a pregnant lady though.

road_high

Anytime I've been in Dublin using the buses I've had mostly bad experiences giving old 'ladies' my seat. They more or less expect you to do it anyway and as such show very little gratitude.I find if you're standing too they barge by you regardless of whether or not there's space- they're lethal with those trolley things!Shouldn't be allowed on the bus with those things imo.
In my experience on public transport anyway it's a case of survival of the fittest which suits me- though I know I'll be old some day and might appreciate the seat then:D !

ChuckProphet

I gave an aul fella my seat once on the train and he barely said thanks. After that i thought f*ck them. I don't care if some aul one is staring at me, trying to make me give it up. i usually pretend i'm asleep when i see an aul one coming. My thoughts are, if yer old or preggers, get on the feckin train early to ensure u get a seat. It's a simple idea!! Saying that i'd always give it up to a preggers one or an aul one if they were nearly keeling over type of aul.

mal1

rubadub wrote:

Class!
Many do have probs getting up & down as mentioned. Or need special seats esp, if they have a hip replacement, sometimes their knee is not to go above the hip.

It is more likely they will take it if you stood up. It can seem you are just being polite and really want the seat, like when somebody you dont really know is buying a round and asks you if you want a drink.

The first time i offered the man my seat i closed my book and pick up my bag and pulled back my armrest back but he said 'No,no,no' before i got up. I didn't get up the next time around because i really didn't know if he wanted to sit down or i didn't know exactly why he had refused. Anyway heading home now on the same train and i think this time around i will stand....

Seth Brundle

stipey wrote:

I don't use public transport so much any more but in the past i would generally have offered the seat and, if the offer was refused, stand up anyway leaving the seat empty. If they want to take it at that point they can.

Also I found that actually standing up and taking a step away from the seat can make a big difference. Particulary if instead of offering them "your" seat you point out that "there is an empty seat there".

Just my €0.02

When I used to use trains/busses I would always offer my seat to someone elderly, pregnant, etc. However, a few times I stood up and offered the seat only to be declined. Suddenly someone would come up and just take it as if they were unaware of the situation.

I also recall once on a bus when a kid got up and offered his seat only for his mammy beside him tell him to sit down as they paid for the seat!

Red Alert

I give it up to 'nice' old ladies/men, you get good at spotting them. I can't stand the gang who are just as able-bodied as everyone else and think they have a right to the seat.

AYM

Some random thoughts and observations!

Women are appalling at giving up seats. It seems they want equality when it suits them, and not if it's at a 'cost'. We are all working full days on the commute, so those of us who are able-bodied and unencumbered have the same duty in my opinion. I would also contend that women are better judges of the old "is she pregnant or overweight" conundrum that can inhibit men at times.

Myself and my wife travel to work together. I sometimes get annoyed (inwardly) if I stand up and give my seat to a pregnant woman, and she then sits down and thanks my wife! I do sometimes whisper to my wife before standing to confirm and do a quick check for me that I have called the above conundrum correctly, but the attitude in thanking her is that it can't have been my own good nature, rather that I must have been ballyragged by my wife into giving up the seat.

A female colleague a couple of years ago gave up her seat on the bus to an old man. Three stops later, a stunning 20-something blonde girl gets on, and old man promptly gives her the seat. Lesson? We never give up trying!!

Observing old people - I like to give older people the elbows test. Watch them as they board, particularly at a busy stop. If they're first on, or battle through the crowd gamely aided by their elbows, I'm figuring them for hale and hearty folk who are the most likely ones to be seat refuseniks. I don't tend to stand for them. It's the ones who shuffle on late that we need to watch out for and help.

Finally, a commuting etiquette question. You're on a busy train / bus, lots of people standing. A seat comes free right beside you. No-one moves for it. How long do you wait before occupying the seat? I generally wait until the next stop - if it's not taken by then by the many standees, including women, my view is why should I be a martyr if you're all too shy about taking the seat.

rubadub

AYM wrote:

I generally wait until the next stop - if it's not taken by then by the many standees, including women, my view is why should I be a martyr if you're all too shy about taking the seat.

Yes one stop, or try and make some eye contact with others you think might want it or deserve it (be they old or on the bus/train longer than you), and then glance towards the seat motioning if they want it.

It can also be bad for the person with nobody sitting next to them, thinking they stink or something! I have got on jammed buses and see an empty seat and wonder, "is yer man a lunatic hassling people beside him or something?"

Archeron

There's an easy solution. Stay in your seat, and ask if they'd like to sit in your lap. That way if they say yes, you still get to sit and so do they, and if they say no, nobody is any the wiser that you've just been publicly dissed by a fogey.

This should be used with caution when it comes to incontinent old people though.

b3t4

I always offer my seat to people who I believe to be in need of it. Oh and I'm a girl too. On my bus route men and women are as quick to offer someone a seat.

I think people forget that older people are from a different generation to us and are stuck in their ways. In their day they would of been expected to give up their seat for an elderly person therefore they expect the same gesture to be given to them in their old age. In their day saying thanks to the person who gave up their seat was probably not necessary.

Live and let live.
A.

Wishbone Ash

ChuckProphet wrote:

if yer old or preggers, get on the feckin train early to ensure u get a seat. It's a simple idea!!

A simple idea from a simple mind! Maybe you could enlighten us as to how one could get on the "feckin train" early if one is boarding at a stop other than it's departure point. :rolleyes:

ChuckProphet

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A simple idea from a simple mind! Maybe you could enlighten us as to how one could get on the "feckin train" early if one is boarding at a stop other than it's departure point. :rolleyes:

duh! u can't. i was talking about those getting on at departure point. u obviously drive to work

Wishbone Ash

ChuckProphet wrote:

i was talking about those getting on at departure point

Fair enough but have you any suggestions "if yer old and preggers" and wish to board the train/bus after the departure point.


When I'm on a bus or train and an elderly/infirm person boards, I get up from my seat but don't officially "offer" it. Problem solved.

ChuckProphet wrote:

u obviously drive to work

Yes, but I don't see the relevance.

(I frequently begin work at 4am so public transport would not be suitable as the first bus does not pass my door until 5.20am)

cast_iron

Wishbone Ash wrote:

When I'm on a bus or train and an elderly/infirm person boards, I get up from my seat but don't officially "offer" it. Problem solved.

I wouldn't do that because often some other ignorant person would just take it.
I normally get up and offer it, and if they refuse after a bit of coaxing i just sit down again and forget about it.

Killaqueen!!!

As most decent people do, I always offer my seat to a person who is in need of it be they old or pregnant. This subject was actually on the radio this morning and there was a pregnant women on saying that nobody offered her a seat. One man actually looked at her and then pretended not to have seen him. Anyways...if an elderly person refuses I just stand up and gesture that the seat is free and they should take it. If they still refuse I sit down and mind my own business. Simple as that.

corktina

my solution to rude people who dont say thans when given a seat or having a door held open for them is to say VERY VERY loudly "Thank You"

DerekP11

P11 have been working on a "Give up your seat" intiative for a number of months. It was devised by our secretary Louise Ball who has much experience with using public transport with the old, pregnant and infirm. The feedback here has been very useful. We anticipate proposing a poster campaign to IE as a means to encouraging people to give up their seat and encouraging those in need of a seat to accept.

corktina

do make sure that the elderley person you are giving your seat up to actually knows they are elderley...i can see some being most offended.....noone offered me a seat yet, but it will be an awful blow the first time they do.....(in my head, I'm about 18 you see and handsome and virile to go with it....)

cast_iron

corktina wrote:

do make sure that the elderley person you are giving your seat up to actually knows they are elderley...

Ah right, so first you must ask if they know that they are old. Only then can we offer our seat??

Garret

i dont give it up, generally cos i do be nackered. and i rarely see old peeps/pregnant/infirm on my train

travelling 4 hours a day make you value your seat:mad:

Garret

AYM wrote:

Some random thoughts and observations!

Women are appalling at giving up seats. It seems they want equality when it suits them, and not if it's at a 'cost'. We are all working full days on the commute, so those of us who are able-bodied and unencumbered have the same duty in my opinion. I would also contend that women are better judges of the old "is she pregnant or overweight" conundrum that can inhibit men at times.

Myself and my wife travel to work together. I sometimes get annoyed (inwardly) if I stand up and give my seat to a pregnant woman, and she then sits down and thanks my wife! I do sometimes whisper to my wife before standing to confirm and do a quick check for me that I have called the above conundrum correctly, but the attitude in thanking her is that it can't have been my own good nature, rather that I must have been ballyragged by my wife into giving up the seat.

A female colleague a couple of years ago gave up her seat on the bus to an old man. Three stops later, a stunning 20-something blonde girl gets on, and old man promptly gives her the seat. Lesson? We never give up trying!!

Observing old people - I like to give older people the elbows test. Watch them as they board, particularly at a busy stop. If they're first on, or battle through the crowd gamely aided by their elbows, I'm figuring them for hale and hearty folk who are the most likely ones to be seat refuseniks. I don't tend to stand for them. It's the ones who shuffle on late that we need to watch out for and help.

Finally, a commuting etiquette question. You're on a busy train / bus, lots of people standing. A seat comes free right beside you. No-one moves for it. How long do you wait before occupying the seat? I generally wait until the next stop - if it's not taken by then by the many standees, including women, my view is why should I be a martyr if you're all too shy about taking the seat.

it goes to whoever is closest really

Victor

Garret wrote:

i dont give it up, generally cos i do be nackered. and i rarely see old peeps/pregnant/infirm on my train travelling 4 hours a day make you value your seat:mad:

Cheeky young whipper-snapper!!

corktina

cast_iron wrote:

Ah right, so first you must ask if they know that they are old. Only then can we offer our seat??

very good....but a 50 yr old woman after a hard day can look like a 70 yr old to a 20 yr old and would not necessarily be pleased to have that noticed

elmyra

Ah, my pet hate. :rolleyes:

I 100% agree with giving seats to people who need them. I'm 19 and it just so happens that I do need my seat because I have a problem with my knee and I'm not supposed to stand a lot. I would never ask for a seat on a packed bus and I know that to look at me you wouldn't think I was in need of it so I'm happy to stick it out and stand for the journey, but I really hate it when I get dirty looks for not standing up for someone else. If it's a pregnant lady I'd stand up anyway because I figure them to be a little more in need of it but I imagine my knee aches about as much as any old person's joints, still I find myself just standing up and handing over my seat to old people just because I feel too uncomfortable not to. Some of us would appreciate the benefit of the doubt!

corktina

elmyra wrote:

Ah, my pet hate. :rolleyes:

I 100% agree with giving seats to people who need them. I'm 19 and it just so happens that I do need my seat because I have a problem with my knee and I'm not supposed to stand a lot. I would never ask for a seat on a packed bus and I know that to look at me you wouldn't think I was in need of it so I'm happy to stick it out and stand for the journey, but I really hate it when I get dirty looks for not standing up for someone else. If it's a pregnant lady I'd stand up anyway because I figure them to be a little more in need of it but I imagine my knee aches about as much as any old person's joints, still I find myself just standing up and handing over my seat to old people just because I feel too uncomfortable not to. Some of us would appreciate the benefit of the doubt!

you are a good soul me thinks...what about the other few dozen on the bus? you have too much conscience for your own good...

nollaig

What pisses me off here is people who almost run to get seats, pushing & shoving. Like, I prefer standing (on the luas anyways) as you are nearer the door and dont have to navigate through tonnes of people to get the door when getting off.

But I hate people to push their way on, just tp get a seat. Young people too who are well able to stand up.

patrickc

i've given up my seat loads of times and feel gulity if i dont but like other posters no gratitude is shown. a woman came up to me recently on luas and said give me ur seat im 80 u know and i said no because of her arrogance. i think if theyre falling about give the seat but otherwise after that i think no..

OliviaM

we just have to understand them (our old folks)..maybe they lose their manners too like losing their teeth when they get older..:D i hope it won't happen to me

corktina

free travel and they want a seat AS WELL? :rolleyes:

Mushy

Well speaking of giving up seats...

Was on the LUAS yesterday, goin from town to Dundrum. This elderly couple were sitting in the four seater bits, diagonally across from each other, with their grandchild in a pram blocking up the rest of the space in there. Came to the Windy Arbour stop, and another elderly man is getting off here. At the doors, he stops, then proceeds to stick his fingers up at the other two elderly people. I now can kinda see it as a damned if ya dont, damned if ya do situation...if ya offer and they refuse, somebody else will get annoyed and if ya dont offer, they will be annoyed.

elmyra

corktina wrote:

you are a good soul me thinks...what about the other few dozen on the bus? you have too much conscience for your own good...

It would seem that way, happened on the 10 today, the other few dozen are always the same waiting for someone else to do it! The lady I gave my seat to was lovely though, she wanted to give me a euro to buy myself an icepop (felt pretty bad that she'd think she should do somthin' like that though). Sometimes it's worth it when the person is nice

Enigma365

In relation to the original post, the woman was completely out of line here. Very rude. She should learn to mind her own business.

I hope she apologised to you, OP?

corktina

elmyra wrote:

It would seem that way, happened on the 10 today, the other few dozen are always the same waiting for someone else to do it! The lady I gave my seat to was lovely though, she wanted to give me a euro to buy myself an icepop (felt pretty bad that she'd think she should do somthin' like that though). Sometimes it's worth it when the person is nice

what flavour did you get?

she sounds like she made it all worthwhile....

mal1

Enigma365 wrote:

In relation to the original post, the woman was completely out of line here. Very rude. She should learn to mind her own business.

I hope she apologised to you, OP?

Nope, she didn't apologise. She just kinda went 'oh, ok then' and walked back to where she was standing. The old man then thanked her for her concern. I suppose he didn't want to look rude. I'm kinda in rehabilitation at the moment, haven't taken a seat since. Though the Maynooth train does be pretty full these days and i don't really get the chance.