Possession and its meaning

ArthurJ

I recently came across an article from the UK concerning firearms possession.
Two brothers,both living in the same house, both cert holders, were going shooting one Saturday morning. However one had to go to work for a couple of hours and did not want to bring his rifle with him so the other one brought both in his car intending to meet up at the range. He was stopped by police and they both faced possession charges.
The charges against both were dismissed. The judge ruled that possession did not mean necessarily mean a "physical possession" and that he was satisfied that both men were in "control" of their guns.

My question is, if I go off for a weekend shoot can I leave my firearm in the B&B while I go for a pint, or when travelling can I put my gun in another car, what about going to the toilet ect. In the firearm context,what exactly doe's possession mean.

rrpc

The only charge I can actually see in that scenario is possession of a firearm without a certificate against the friend. The man who went to work was clearly in possession of nothing.

Having said that possession means just that, you have possession of something if it's on your person or on a property owned or controlled by you, or also in a vehicle owned or controlled by you. So if you are driving someone else's car with their gun in the boot, even if you didn't know it was there you would be in possession of a firearm.

I actually don't understand your question, if you go to the toilet and leave your gun in the car you are in possession of the gun. If you have a certificate for it, then there is no problem. What I don't understand is what Garda is going to go to the toilet with you and check what you have in your possession? and certainly if you don't bring your rifle into the loo with you (and who does?) you are not in possession of anything to start with.

Sparks

I'd agree with RRPC, with just the obvious point that you would be expected, if leaving the firearm somewhere where you weren't immediately supervising it, to ensure it was reasonable secure. ie. if you leave it in the car, leave it in a locked boot rather than on the bonnet. And so forth.

ArthurJ

OK RRPC. A week ago I travelled with a group on a shoot. We stayed in a Bed and Breakfast for one night. All the guns were left in the B&B while we all went to a local pub. Futhermore while travelling all the guns were carried in a jeep, while several of the gun owner's were in two other car's.

Question: Did anyone break the law.

Sandy22

I would say, prima facie, no. I think that, insofar as it's relevant and hasn't been repealed by the CJA, the Firearms Act 1925, Section 2 (3) (f) applies:

(3) This section shall not apply to any of the following cases and such cases are accordingly excepted from this section, that is to say:—
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( f ) the carriage for sporting purposes only of a firearm or ammunition under instructions from and for the use of the holder of a firearm certificate for such firearm or ammunition;

de_shadow

Whats the laws stance on letting some one else use your gun when out shooting .
say for example i'm doing some vermin removal and i have my brother or friend who are not cert holders and i have two guns both mine can they use them under my supervision or do they risk being done for possession and me for supplying a firearm??

Sparks

Fast answer would be yes shadow; but that wouldn't hold in a club where you were engaged in target shooting if they were club members. But since there's no definition of target shooting and since the club parts of the law aren't active yet, right now, you could finagle your way out of trouble if you had enough money for soliciters and barristers and enough luck. I wouldn't recommend it at all; and in a few months that loophole won't be there anymore.

de_shadow

Thank's Sparks i aws just curious as to how that situation may be viewed by our "friends" in blue;)