Season 3, Episode 7: A Measure Of Salvation [SPOILERS]

User45701

WOW that was a quick one from our cousins 3am! i went to sleep early expecting the cousins to be slow.

great episode relay enjoyed it, waent everything i was hoping for i wanted a scene at the end on the basestar with baltar, deana, caprica and head six

was interesting the way head six was trying to teach baltar to block out pain much like the cylons can...

Nuttzz

6

why was no one with the prisoners ready to shoot them when it was a key part of the plan, someone should have been with them 24/7 to make sure they were alive so that they could be killed. bit too easy of a cop out in the end

gandalf

9

Jaysus another brilliant episode. This is just getting better and better.

Just finished watching the season boxset so back up to par with all the back stories as well.

mcgarnicle

All I can say is Hugh Borg... what an utter rip off

magick

4

Helo is an idiot , i cant believe he managed to betray his people

now it seems like its a race to earth between humans and cylons

Johnny Storm

5

I thought it was a bit blah TBH.
Nice to see a bit of space combat again though.

c0y0te

6

I thought it was an 'ok' episode, but not amazing.

Favourite quote though is at the start when the colonials are

bording the basestar and someone says "Gods, what happened here" and a smart ass marine replies "I don't know, but their fraq'in resurrection ship is gonna overheat!"

Sheer class.

5uspect

6

Hi folks, didn't know there was a BSG board here until recently and only decided to post now. I'm a huge fan, I hope it follows the trend and gets better and better.

I quite enjoyed the episode, I was expecting a much quieter one after all the budget sapping bells and whistles of the last few episodes.

Spoiler!!!

So now they know about the Cylon virus why don't they flood the fleet with it? Or at least use it as a Cylon detector to find more Cylon bio weapons?
Maybe they'll bash out some new story tangents from it...

Ri_Nollaig

4

i thought this was a disappointing episode inparticular how

they actually questioned the idea of a chance to destroy the cylons or atleast get them to stop following them. Then helo sabotaging the cell killing the cylons and how adama didnt really care...

. shame as the previous episode was brillant

Anti

6

Was a good episode untill help killed the captured cylons. This would not be able to happen, As there should be guards stationed with the prisioners. And this would not effect sharon anyway. And its getting mroe and more obvious, Gaeis is a cylon. Hes one of the previous 6 models. I think.

Boston

anti wrote:

. And its getting mroe and more obvious, Gaeis is a cylon. Hes one of the previous 6 models. I think.

Is it really. I think people are to used to crap american tv shows where the ending is obvious from the first few minutes. You ever thing that maybe the writers are deliberately taking us down this road, and that it's never going to be as obvious as you make out.

BKtje

and so what if he is? If he really is that im sure that they are doing all this on purpose.

MisterAnarchy

6

Decent enough episode,the weakest of this current series though.
Too many plot holes and inconsistencies to make it very good.

They introduced some killer disease, plot a big mission to wipe out the Cylons, and then...and then it all fizzled out.
This was a big story line that needed more/better development.
By the way it's time to create a new combat landing stock footage.
I always think its silly the way all the vipers get back and no Cylon raider can get in.;)

CatInABox

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

Then helo sabotaging the cell killing the cylons and how adama didnt really care.

Adama didn't care because he thought that Helo was right to do it, Adama had "passed the buck" and was only following orders at that stage.

I do find the fact that the cylons were left on their own a bit strange, including the fact that there was no cameras in the room to keep an eye on them. Even with that plot hole, it's still better writing that almost every other show I'm watching.

Another plot hole I noticed that irked me more than the above was the fact that the doctor identified the virus as an exact match that broke out on Kobol 3000 years ago. How did he do this? Scripture? If it included detailed medical reports on virii, why the hell doesn't it include a star map to earth?

But far worse than all of these, one which almost ruined the whole show, was the fact that Helo turned down Athena while she was gagging for it. I mean, thats the mother of all plot holes right there!

Despite that, I enjoyed it.

Goodshape

6

A few plot holes alright, and a bit of a rushed ending. Still good stuff though

I'll give it a high-7.

(btw - I preferred the five option poll)

All I can say is Hugh Borg... what an utter rip off

The circumstances were quite different.

they actually questioned the idea of a chance to destroy the cylons or atleast get them to stop following them. Then helo sabotaging the cell killing the cylons and how adama didnt really care...

I thought that was very much in keeping with the shows moral stand points though. And Adama was obviously uneasy about the plan (committing genocide) from the beginning - you could see signs of relief on his face when the Cylon prisoners were reported as being already dead. Although they did wrap all that up a bit quickly at the end.

Praetorian

6

I agree with Nuttzz. That episode wasn't thought out properly. The scenes with Baltar were good though.

Johnny Storm

5

5uspect wrote:

Spoiler!!!

So now they know about the Cylon virus why don't they flood the fleet with it? Or at least use it as a Cylon detector to find more Cylon bio weapons?
Maybe they'll bash out some new story tangents from it...

Very good points. They should be able to use it to eliminate any possible Cylon infiltrators. If they dont follow up on your last point then, I'm afraid, its poor thinking/planning on the part of the writers.

MisterAnarchy

6

Praetorian wrote:

The scenes with Baltar were good though.

Every scene with Baltar is good,he should get his own spin off show,Baltars Mind.

User45701

8

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

i thought this was a disappointing episode inparticular how

they actually questioned the idea of a chance to destroy the cylons or atleast get them to stop following them. Then helo sabotaging the cell killing the cylons and how adama didnt really care...

. shame as the previous episode was brillant

anti wrote:

Was a good episode untill help killed the captured cylons. This would not be able to happen, As there should be guards stationed with the prisioners. And this would not effect sharon anyway. And its getting mroe and more obvious, Gaeis is a cylon. Hes one of the previous 6 models. I think.

One of the 5 unknown you mean?

MisterAnarchy wrote:

By the way it's time to create a new combat landing stock footage.
I always think its silly the way all the vipers get back and no Cylon raider can get in.;)
[/spoiler]

Ah now come on that is just a pointless use of money, we know that they land we don't have to see it a different angles and such. Keep the money for something more usefull

CatInABox wrote:

Another plot hole I noticed that irked me more than the above was the fact that the doctor identified the virus as an exact match that broke out on Kobol 3000 years ago. How did he do this? Scripture? If it included detailed medical reports on virii, why the hell doesn't it include a star map to earth?

But far worse than all of these, one which almost ruined the whole show, was the fact that Helo turned down Athena while she was gagging for it. I mean, thats the mother of all plot holes right there!

Despite that, I enjoyed it.

I thought 3000 years ago the 13 colonies left kobol and one would assume that they carried the plague with them to the new 12 colonies - im assuming the records are from early medial logs on capricia and not from kobol itself

Goodshape wrote:

A few plot holes alright, and a bit of a rushed ending. Still good stuff though

I'll give it a high-7.

(btw - I preferred the five option poll)


The circumstances were quite different.


I thought that was very much in keeping with the shows moral stand points though. And Adama was obviously uneasy about the plan (committing genocide) from the beginning - you could see signs of relief on his face when the Cylon prisoners were reported as being already dead. Although they did wrap all that up a bit quickly at the end.

A few posts about this moral issue so the way i see it is, that it was a necessary step. what i find interesting is.... do the cylons have a chain of resurrection ships linking them from where they are now back to the cylon homeword?

surely the infection would just have infected those 4 basestars and all of the 7?

Johnny Storm wrote:

Very good points. They should be able to use it to eliminate any possible Cylon infiltrators. If they dont follow up on your last point then, I'm afraid, its poor thinking/planning on the part of the writers.

These writers seem to think everything through so...
Why not infect Athena, it would be a few mins before her antibody's went to work, she dies and is resurrected and then she would have no problem escaping the resurrection ship because all the others would be dead/dying before they had a chance to "box" her

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Every scene with Baltar is good,he should get his own spin off show,Baltars Mind.

Second!

Johnny Storm

5

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Every scene with Baltar is good,he should get his own spin off show,Baltars Mind.

Right on!

Wait till its revealed in the final ever episode that the whole series was a dream Balthar has been having while living in a mental institution on Caprica.

IMHO he needs to have more humorous scenes like he used to and also more sex scenes. (Just for a bit of variety)

iguana

6

User45701 wrote:

Why not infect Athena, it would be a few mins before her antibody's went to work, she dies and is resurrected and then she would have no problem escaping the resurrection ship because all the others would be dead/dying before they had a chance to "box" her

But her new body wouldn't be immune to the virus as it had never carried Hera. What doesn't make sense about the episode though is that the virus was very easy for Codol to diagnose and cure. The humans knew that Baltar was with the cylons and as far as they knew he was willingly working with them. As much as they detest the man they do know he is a scientific genius and would surely assume him to be capable of curing the virus. It would still be worth a shot, but it would be a long shot and they should have known that.

Ri_Nollaig

4

iguana wrote:

But her new body wouldn't be immune to the virus as it had never carried Hera. What doesn't make sense about the episode though is that the virus was very easy for Codol to diagnose and cure. The humans knew that Baltar was with the cylons and as far as they knew he was willingly working with them. As much as they detest the man they do know he is a scientific genius and would surely assume him to be capable of curing the virus. It would still be worth a shot, but it would be a long shot and they should have known that.

i wonder is there ever a chance that poor balter will be forgiven and return to the fleet

Barry Aldwell

The events of this episode make me want to kick Helo's face in. He is an officer, and the president of the colonies ordered that the cylons be wiped out. Like it or not, by sabotaging that mission, he is a traitor.

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

i wonder is there ever a chance that poor balter will be forgiven and return to the fleet

He does eventually make it back to the fleet, in the second half of the season

Ri_Nollaig

4

Barry Aldwell wrote:

The events of this episode make me want to kick Helo's face in. He is an officer, and the president of the colonies ordered that the cylons be wiped out. Like it or not, by sabotaging that mission, he is a traitor.

He does eventually make it back to the fleet, in the second half of the season

i knew i shouldnt have but i just had to read that spoiler...

Scruff

7

me neither, stoped after 3 words but got the gist of it

good episode, voted 8 but meant 7. bit disappointed my prediction didnt come true, wont gve up the day job to become a prophet just yet.
nice to see the new missle system they deployed oon the raptors, that was pretty cool. Thought that turn coat Helo managed to kill the cylons a bit too easily.

Pugsley

8

Pretty good episode, not a bad one anyway, but after such a start to the season its would be easy to call it a weak episode.

Baltar had some great scene's, although his torture scene was poorly acted. The whole Helo thing was a bit annoying, but it makes a kind of sense since Adama was against it he didnt tighten security, I imagine he expected Helo to sabotage the mission, then again that puts Adama's loyalty to the president in question.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

sheesh.. whole lot of people here wouldn't object to the holocaust either then?

genocide is genocide people, helo did the right thing for all the right reasons.

eamon234

9

I'm putting my money on the whole Baltar scenario playing out a little like the original series - he'll end up commanding the Cylons (and more than likely is one). The bit with Xena (ok Deanna!) was very interesting - is he going for the religious angle or the emotional one? Looks to me like he's trying to convince them to worship him instead!

thelordofcheese

6

Well, if helo hadn't stopped the plan from going through, it'd make for a pretty boring third series, what with there being no cylons.

personally, i think helo was right, but it'll be interesting to see if there is any fallout, i know adama said they weren't going to investigate it, but thats not to say that helo just got away with it.

Also, damn your eyes, Barry Aldwell, damn your eyes!

5uspect

6

eamon234 wrote:

I'm putting my money on the whole Baltar scenario playing out a little like the original series - he'll end up commanding the Cylons

I was thinking that too
When he offered to go to the infected basestar I thought we were going to get a third faction of Baltar worshiping cylons, oh well...

Volvagia

I think Helo should have just followed orders and let the Cyclons be wiped out. It probably would have made for a boring series, but i still think he should have done it.

I'm really enjoying Baltar's mini adventures with the cyclons as well.

Calibos

Think about this alternative History scenario then. WWII. The Americans have enough enriched uranium to build a load of A bombs (I know they only had enough for 2 in reality). They offer the Jewish people all the bombs to do with as they please. Would the Jewish people be justified in Vapourising every man, woman and child in Germany to defend themselves from Hitler, the SS and the Holocaust.

ixoy

I enjoyed this one too and the dubious ethics employed by Adama and particularly Roslin, who seemed unrepentent for her choices. Their adoption of "them or us" is an interesting area to explore, the sort of morality that was never touched upon in the likes of Star Trek (with the notable exception of DS9 and the Changelings.. but since that was Ronald D. Moore as well...).

I actually understand Healio's decision. I don't think he betrayed humanity. Far from it, the compassion he showed and disgust are evidence for his humanity. It makes sense for him to make it too, given his links to Athena - if anyone can understand that not all Cylons are bad...
As to the security measures, Healio I assume has a great deal of leeway given his position by Adama's side. I imagine this enabled him to circumvent some safety measures. Nonetheless, I'd like to see some reprecussions for his actions given that this is the BSG universe (Roslin seemed less than pleased with Adama wavering on holding an inquiry).

Baltar was great as usual, glorious self-serving weasel that he is. Love the score for his scenes on the BaseStar: the show really knows how to add atmosphere.

Still an amazing season, for my money and easily the most adult sci-fi there is ("Torchood", as much as I enjoy it, could cast an eye to this show if it really wants to claim to be more "adult").

User45701

8

Someone in another thread was saying that bsg dumbs itself down but id have to agree that it is very adult and very VERY enjoyable.

I have the 1st 2 episodes of torchwood and haven't watched them but you do have good taste in shows/movies ixoy so ill give it a shot

Peace

One thing that annoyed me about this ep was that when the vipers were launched and engaged the cylons... where was Apollo? About to put a bullet in a couple of cylons.

Serious, this guy used to be the CAG ffs.... he should be out there popping cylons off not back on galactica doing monkey work... They have marines just for this reason... Just struck me as silly.

User45701

8

an important job needs the attention of a important person

Goodshape

6

Peace wrote:

One thing that annoyed me about this ep was that when the vipers were launched and engaged the cylons... where was Apollo? About to put a bullet in a couple of cylons.

Serious, this guy used to be the CAG ffs.... he should be out there popping cylons off not back on galactica doing monkey work... They have marines just for this reason... Just struck me as silly.

RDM's podcast mentions that Apollo leading the marines was going to be something they developed over the course of this season, but they changed their minds. Aparently his role in this episode was thought / written when they still had that in mind and they decided to just leave it like that.

Sort of glad they decided against going full hog with the marines storyline, but they really do need to find something for Apollo to do this season. He was commander of the Pegasus about four episodes ago, and now he's.. I dunno what.

User45701

8

He is the CAG even tho 2 pilots are better than him, Starbuck and Cat
There will have to be another contest between starbuck and cat to see who can waste more toasters and handle more drink

Apollio.... he can emm be the presidents personal guard...... oh no wait he kinda did that didnt he.
He could take starbucks old job of training new recruits?

MarkR

He could release a fitness video. Maybe be a personal trainer. He's done so well for himself...:)

DeVore

Mordeth wrote:

sheesh.. whole lot of people here wouldn't object to the holocaust either then?

genocide is genocide people, helo did the right thing for all the right reasons.

To be fair, the jews weren't hunting the germans to extinction...

I'd have been with the President. Its a fight to the death and the cylons haven't made any real attempt to negotiate (beyond enslavement). Its us or them and I'd choose us. They are forcing a genocide, we're choosing who.

DeV.

Goodshape

6

Adama wasn't on the planet when it was under Cylon occupation, I think this is why he wasn't as enthusiastic as Roslin about wiping them out and also why he ultimitly let Roslin make the call.

Personally though, I'd side with Adama; genocide is always wrong. It's been shown that Cylons are more than just machines (if this were Star Trek they'd have been given full rights as sentiant beings by now) and are capable of making personal choices and decisions -- simply wipe that out and who knows what you've lost.

Haruspex

7

Thought this episode harks back to a key moment during the second season when Adama states that it's not enough to just survive, one must be worthy of survival. Had their plan succeeded what would be the main differentiator between the Cylon's destruction of the 12 Colonies and the Colonials' infecting them with the fatal virus? Two wrongs don't make a right.

On this one, Roslin never surprises me in her steely nerve and cold calculation - she was obviously still quite raw from her experiences on New Caprica under occupation given her curt dismissal of Helo's concerns.

Still this episode did feel a bit rushed in the end and maybe could have done with another part. The virus (I presume) is still a threat and can surely become a bargaining chip for the fleet. Maybe a Cold War like scenario could develop?

Glad to see Doc Cottle survived the exodus. Am I right in thinking this was his first appearance since we last saw him on New Caprica?

User45701

8

It was his first appearance, actually maybe he was in episode 5 collaborators

Roslin is brilliant cold and not at the same time - Tigh said it best
"sometime i think you've got ice water in those veins and other times i think your just a naive little school teacher"
Ill never forget when she turned to Adama and said "we have to kill her" talking about Admiral Kane

They will continue with showing all how all the characters have changed because the occupation

I think that is more less it for the virus tho. Im guessing they kept tissue samples from the dead cylons or maybe they will bluff that they have it or Athena will threaten to infect and kill herself to get them out of a sticky situation

Barry Aldwell

User45701 wrote:

Im guessing they kept tissue samples from the dead cylons or maybe they will bluff that they have it or Athena will threaten to infect and kill herself to get them out of a sticky situation

Athena is immune.

Johnny Storm

5

User45701 wrote:

....Ill never forget when she turned to Adama and said "we have to kill her" talking about Admiral Kane...

Great moment, no doubt.

Jack B. Badd

7

Roslin...gods help me, but I do love that woman

User45701

8

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Athena is immune.

Yes but if she infected herself then killed herself straight away before her antibody's had a chance to completely destroy the infection then she could resurrect and infect the rest of the cylons, only problem is the self destruct might go off on the resurrection ship and destroy her, or maybe the cylons would destroy the resurrection ship themselves when they realise what was going on...

Cork boy 55

9

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

sheesh.. whole lot of people here wouldn't object to the holocaust either then?

genocide is genocide people, helo did the right thing for all the right reasons.

They are frakking toasters man!

No investigations by Adama WTF?

Helo and his toaster need to get vented out a frakking airlock!