shop clerks vs robber

sharpjaws

i have a part time job at spar in Dublin ,last week there was this guy who stole lots of things then ran away, it was my first time encountering situations like this, since i just started working for a few weeks. i practice MMA my self and am pretty big, i can take a robber like that down ,( my manager told me i can do what ever i want to him if his a threat, but i dont think he knows what his talkin about) can some one point out the laws or tips ? thanks

cowzerp

If he leaves the premises with the goods you can restrain him and bring him back into the shop so the gardai can deal with them-if you even put your hand on there shoulder and he has not stolen anything he could charge you with assault and sue you and the shop-you are only there for deterrent and insurance reasons!

Khannie

cowzer's spot on afaik. A mate of mine used to work security for Dunnes. They let you leave first, then nail you.

Edit: TBH though, you should look after your own personal safety first. If there is /any/ chance that the thief is carrying a weapon, you should just let them take whatever they want.

Dragan

I did retail security for a few years, and the general gist is correct….let them leave the shop and then bring them back. I would like to point out however that unless you are employed strictly to do security then it might be an idea to just let them go?

A) You do not know who they are or what they might be carrying
should you sucessfully restrain him , and that leads to trouble for him then he knows where you work.

There were more than a few attempted reprisals of SO's when I was working for getting people banged up or fined.

Finally, the simple crux of the matter is that unless you have them in your field of vision at all times then you cannot be 100% sure that they have robbed something, they might have dropped it when out of your vision, even if that was only for a second.

A false arrest and the resultant claim and settlement is a handy way for some of these chaps to earn a few bob and needs to be watched for just as much as actual robbery.

monkey tennis

sharpjaws wrote:

my manager told me i can do what ever i want to him if his a threat, but i dont think he knows what his talkin about

You're right, he doesn't. Apart from the physical danger (why would you risk your safety for Spar?), if you were too enthusiastic in your attempts, you could be the one in the dock.

If the manager is that worried about thieves, let him hire trained security staff.

Clive

Don't do anything, for several reasons.

1. Will you get paid extra, receive more training etc for acting as a security guard? Nope.
2. Will your employer pay you for the time you'll be spending in court when the case comes up? You could be called four or five times if the case keeps being adjourned.
3. Are your actions stopping the management hiring a proper security guard (thus creating a job, and keeping you safer)
4. As Dragan says, it's unlikely you've seen the guy walk up to the item/s, take them and leave without paying, having them clearly in vision all the time. You need a good eye/experience/ a decent guy on cameras for that. Putting yourself and the company at risk.
5. If you run after the guy and ask for the stuff back, he'll tell you where to stick it
6. If you escort him back inside, do you have somewhere to keep him while you wait for the guards. Do you have someone to cover the till for you while you wait with him? Will you still get paid even though you're standing there watching this dude?
7. If you jump on him, you'll be the one in trouble.
8. He knows your face, and where you work.
9. If he's not white, then be prepared to be braded a racist by passers-by.
10. He could have AIDS, Hep, fleas, God knows what else.
11. Depending on the value and who it is, the guards may not be too bothered - they have better things to do.
12. Tell the boss your union said it was a demarcation issue! (He'll love that!)

gymrabbit

13. don't hop him unless you're certain you can batter him

ColinJennings

You (as in any member of the public) can arrest someone for an arrestable offence if you know it is being committed or has been committed under section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997.
Theft of anything is an arrestable offence as under section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud) Act 2001 it can carry a sentance of 5 years or more (which is the defnition of a arrestable offence).

You can use reasonable force is arresting someone.
I wouldn't recommend it because whatever they steal is hardl worth any injury to you.

sharpjaws

ColinJennings wrote:

You (as in any member of the public) can arrest someone for an arrestable offence if you know it is being committed or has been committed under section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997.
Theft of anything is an arrestable offence as under section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud) Act 2001 it can carry a sentance of 5 years or more (which is the defnition of a arrestable offence).

You can use reasonable force is arresting someone.
I wouldn't recommend it because whatever they steal is hardl worth any injury to you.

emm, Thanks allot guys, that was really help full. this is my first time working as a shop assistant .
The manager brought me to his office, showed the video tape to my face ( as if it was my fault i didn't see the guy sticking stuff in his jacket) then he told me i can use force on people who stole things and is leaving the shop, it didnt feel right so thats why i asked , Thanks people, your very help full i will try my best to protect my self in situations like this, it really isn't worth it if i think about it

HammerHeadGym

Hey Sharpjaws,
I would say, just don't bother. Your shop is insured. They will get their money back. They are covered against third party, fire and theft. You are not. You will never have your health/limbs/life restored by the insurance companies. In fact, everywhere i have ever worked as security, i have been told that i am not covered, if i choose to leave the premesis and engage criminals.

Hope this helps

Scramble

I'd make clear to your manager that you're a shop assistant, not shop security.

Then ask him if you are insured against injury in the course of restraining a thief trying to leave the premises. Also ask him where the shop would stand in the event of a civil or criminal action brought against you.

I doubt that you are being paid well enought to exceed your job description and risking injury or the attention of the Gardai in the event of an accident.

Caped Crusader

I wouldn't do anything. I worked in a shop part time when I was in college and the owner saw some scumbags robbing things and told me it was part of my job to stop them. I told him to **** off and stop them himself if he was worried about it. There's no way I was going to get into a fight for a few pounds an hour.

Roper

Roper say:

Minimum wage job not worth losing teeth for. Tell jackass sparmanager to go suck a lemon.

Roper out.

Clank

Caped Crusader wrote:

I wouldn't do anything. I worked in a shop part time when I was in college and the owner saw some scumbags robbing things and told me it was part of my job to stop them. I told him to **** off and stop them himself if he was worried about it. There's no way I was going to get into a fight for a few pounds an hour.

Indeed, I worked in a garage for a few years and was told that if I was robbed, the money is taken out of my pay as I didnt do enough to stop it......Needless to say I told him where to go.

For the money your on, let them take it, its not worth it.

sharpjaws

Clank wrote:

Indeed, I worked in a garage for a few years and was told that if I was robbed, the money is taken out of my pay as I didnt do enough to stop it......Needless to say I told him where to go.

For the money your on, let them take it, its not worth it.

!! i was told the same thing|!! :eek: :eek: what should i tell him ??

Clive

Tell him you want a full written job description and contract.
Tell him you've joined a union and they said it was a demarcation issue.
Ask him if he really wants you to leave the till unattended to go after €10 worth of insured stock.
Ask him the situation on false arrests, danger money, training etc etc.

Black Swan

Is Spar paying you to spar?