younger half brother I haven't seen in 12 years

LegacyUser

OK, this is something that has been on my mind for a long time. I'll try and keep it brief but it's one of these things with a lot of background info that needs explaining.

My parents split up when I was young, and that's fine. But my Dad started seeing this lady, and he was seeing her for about 5 years from about 1987 to 1992. They weren't getting on well at all, and this lady, let's call her Jane, was really turning out to be a bit of a psycho bitch. She was really violent and always starting massive arguments over nothing. She mentally and physically abused my Dad for almost the entire 5 years. Anyway, it really looked like this relationship was coming to an end for a long time, and they were always fighting, but she got pregnant, and they tried to patch things up for the baby. Anyway that didn't work, and she left my Dad on very bad terms when my little brother, lets call him Adam, was only 6 months old. They were unmarried and she basically told my Dad there was no chance he was ever going to see his son again, and he hasn't since, despite alot of efforts.

I was 9 years old at the time, and myself and my older brother and sister continued to see them for about 2 years every couple of weeks on the condition that we wouldn't tell our Dad that we were seeing them (on reflection I'm pretty sure this was another tactic of her's to try and further sour our relationship with him) This was pretty difficult because Jane was really trying to poison us against our Dad, making up all sorts of ridiculous stories and basically telling us things we didn't need to hear. I remember one time when I was 10 or 11 she kept me up til about 6am telling me all sorts of lies about my Dad, anyway the details aren't too important, but my Mum and my older brother and sister decided that it probably wasn't a good idea for us to continue seeing Jane and Adam because of all this emotional blackmail. I mean who the **** tries to turn a ten year old against their own Dad? She was really starting to get into our heads anyway, and it was really affecting our relationship with our Dad who has always been amazing for us.

So a couple of years went by and we didn't see them, and to be fully honest the whole thing just kind of went out of my head. We never discuss the situation as a family, my Dad basically just acts as if the whole thing never happened, and myself my brother and my sister kind of avoid it as a topic of conversation as well. It's not too easy dragging up all those old memories. Anyway, there was no contact between us for maybe 10 years, but it was weighing on my mind from time to time and I decided that I had to do something about it. So I tracked down their home phone number, had about 4-5 pints to build up the courage, and rang them. Jane answered the phone, and I explained who it was. We talked for about an hour on the phone, and she was using all the same manipulative mind games she used to when we were kids. She told me that Adam took years to get over us 'abandoning' him, and that he was at a critical age in his life and that it mightn't be the best thing for him to suddenly see us again. I can see her point here to be fair, but I know this woman, and I know that the only reason she doesn't want us seeing him is because he might end up finding out (as if he doesn't already know!) what a screwed up woman his mother really is. Anyway I'd never ever do anything to try and damage their relationship if I did get to see him, but she's obviously just applying her own standards to these sort of situations. I asked her to at least ask Adam what he thought of the situation, but she refused to, and she was talking about him as if he was far too young to be able to deal with such a traumatic experience as meeting up with us. She failed to acknowledge that I was the same age that he is now when she kept me up til it was bright filling my head full of nasty stories of her and my father's acrimonious breakup. She was pretty much blaming me for 'abandoning' Adam all those years ago when I was 10 years old, while at the same time trying to argue that Adam at 10 years old was too young to be able to make a decision for himself regarding seeing us again.Anyway this is just an example of how messed up she is, and of her inability to put things in perspective.

Well basically, after our hour long conversation she told me that she was going to think the situation over and that she would get back to me at the weekend. The weekend came and went and she didn't get back. I gave it about 3 more weeks and rang their house again, and the number had been changed, I got the tone you get when the number's not in service.

Now I don't want to go and contact my brother out of the blue without any warning. I'd imagine that could be quite a shock for him and I don't want to scare the **** out of him. Also I've no idea what sort of lies she's told him about us and particularly my Dad. But what should I do? To be honest I think I might have left it too late, but I think that this sort of thing is better done late than never. I really think we would be a positive influence on him, and I think it could be very healthy for him to meet us. We're all pretty stable well developed people at this stage despite all this crap, and I know that he'd benefit from having a few older siblings. Anyway what should I do? I know what school he goes to, what year he's in etc, but as I said I don't want to just confront him out of the blue. Should I find out where they live and call to the house? Also how would I go about finding out where they live? Or should I just leave it and let them get on with their lives? I know that if I was him I'd like to at least have the option to meet with us, but I'm certain that Jane never even told him I tried to get in contact. I'd just like to meet him and if he doesn't want anything to do with us then that's fair enough, but I'd like to know that he at least knows we'd like to see him.

Any advice about how to proceed with this? Bearing in mind that Jane is a venemous bitch capable of almost anything, and she really doesn't want anything to do with us.

Sorry this is so long.

Beruthiel

You've waited 10 years, can you wait another 4?
At 14 a kid can basically make up his own mind with regards to whither or not he wishes to see his siblings or father.
In the mean time you could write him letters, you needn't post them, just keep the collection, pour your thoughts and feelings into them, when he's old enough you can give them to him and it might help towards him understanding the whole situation a little.
Try not to bad mouth his mother, he'll be old enough to see her for what she is by then, anything you say against her will only put him on the defensive. Just say something along the lines that the bad feeling between his parents made it very difficult to keep in contact.

Dan133269

Yeah waiting another 2 years at minimum is probably better. I think you have an obligation as his older brother to in a sense save him from his mother, it would more than likely be a big boost for him at a difficult age in his life. I'd say you could become a father figure for him.
Don't lose details of where they are in the meantime however if you decide to wait.

sweet-rasmus

get in contact with a counselor; i'd say they are far better equipped to help you out.

Sleepy

It's a tough situation alright OP, I think Beruthiel may be right though, ya may have to wait for another few years until he's old enough to not really care what his mum thinks about some things. I'm sure he's probably very curious about yourself and your siblings as well.

DirkVoodoo

Hey OP,

Bizzarely enough I am in a similar situation to you, though I'm on the other side of the equation. Basically I have three older half-sisters that I found out about when I was around 12/13. I have only seen them at my uncle's and my grandfather's funerals, never talked to them though. Without going into too much detail here, there is a frosty relationship between "them and us" namely because we never met until recently, thus creating a "them and us" situation.

If you want to chat more about it, PM me, maybe my perspective as the "younger brother" can offer some insight.

Mike

LegacyUser

'Thanks for the replies, it\'s good to find out other people\'s perspectives on the matter.
To make one thing clear, as I said in my OP, I\'d NEVER attempt to damage the relationship between Adam and his mother. I don\'t like the woman and I have alot of resentment towards her because of the situation she has put us in, but their relationship is none of my business, I\'m only concerned with Adam\'s welfare and no matter what she has done it certainly wouldn\'t be good for me to create a rift in their relationship.

I just wish that Jane would understand this and that these aren\'t my intentions.I think the main reason that she doesn\'t want me seeing him is that she thinks it would lead to a reintroduction to my Dad, who she doesn\'t want having any part in his life. I guess she doesn\'t want Adam finding out about how she treated him, it was pretty bad. To give another example of the sort of thing she is capable of, I remember when they were together and having an argument over something stupid to do with how long to cook the turkey at Christmas, she picked up a frying pan and clocked my Dad right in the face with it breaking his nose.

This is the sort of thing I\'m sure she doesn\'t want Adam knowing about her. I tried to reassure her when we spoke on the phone that I didn\'t have any ulterior motives, and me contacting her was just that, and that I had no intentions of any big family reunion, but I don\'t think she believed me. She was basically trying to get me to side with her on the whole thing with my Dad, but I refused to bad mouth him just for her purposes. I\'m pretty certain if I contacted her and told her I hadn\'t spoken to my Dad in a couple of years she\'d allow me to see my brother. This is the thing that annoys me the most about it to be honest, she is screwing up my chances of seeing my brother because of the ****ed up relationship she had with my father, which has nothing to do with me.


Another concern is that I wouldn\'t be surprised if they upped and left the country at some stage, making it impossible for me to ever track them down. She\'s not originally Irish you see, and when I managed to track down their phone number last time through an old friend of hers I found out that she has burnt alot of bridges with various people over here, so there\'s not that much really keeping her in the country, so it is a bit of a matter of urgency I think. I\'ve been thinking about it more since I made that post last night, and I\'ve changed my opinions on contacting Adam directly.

He\'s 14 years old now and is old enough to be able to handle it I reckon. I\'m going to try to contact Jane one last time and try to gain contact with Adam in that way, but if she refuses again I\'m going to try and contact him directly. But how should I go about doing this? As I said all I know about him is what school he is in, and the general area of Dublin that they live in.

I don\'t particularly want to ring the school, and I doubt they\'d give me the time of day to be honest. I was even considering getting a private investigator to maybe find out his phone number or something, and I could call him myself. Or if I could find out their new home number I could ring at a time that I think Jane would likely be in work, hanging up if she does answer. What do people think of this? Is it a bad idea to try to contact him directly? I think 14 is old enough to be honest, but I suppose I was quite grown up at that stage myself.'

Nevyn

I think you are wrong to be trying to contact him against the express wishes of his mother.
He is still a minior and not an adult and you will cause hurt and conflict.

Why are you hell bent on doing this ?
Have you honestly spent time figuring out why ?
You contacting him will lead to a lot of questions being asked and 14 is a hard enough time esp if his mother is that bad.

If you have concerns he is being abused by his mother ring child protection section via the socail workers in the local health clinc.

You were a child yourself and you could not help him then, there is little you can do about it now until he is an adult and hopefully he will come to terms with your and your Dad then.

LegacyUser

'

Thaedydal wrote:

\r\nWhy are you hell bent on doing this ?\r\n

\r\n\r\nIt\'s pretty simple really, he\'s my brother and I feel like I have a right to see him, and I also feel that he has a right to know that I want to see him. I think he\'s old enough to be able to make this decision for himself to be honest. He knows we exist so I\'m not sure how the situation could get any more confusing for him. I\'m sure he\'d prefer to know that I at least tried to contact him rather than thinking I don\'t give a **** about him at all. \r\n\r\nI don\'t think he is being abused physically but I\'m fairly certain that she is not a good parental figure for him. She isn\'t mentally stable, and her perspectives on things are very warped. I don\'t see how it wouldn\'t be healthy for him to meet an older family member with a different outlook on things. \r\n\r\nWhen I was 14 I felt that I was plenty old enough to deal with situations like this, but as I said I think I was quite grown up back then. Even so I do think it is old enough to be able to make these sort of decisions for yourself. If he didn\'t know I existed at all then I think it would be a terrible idea to contact him, but he does know we exist so I don\'t think it would be too much of a shock. It would be out of the blue for sure, but it\'s not like he\'d be finding out we exist for the first time. \r\n\r\nAs I said, my original opinion on the matter was to go through Jane, but she is just so unreasonable and impossible to deal with I\'m not sure that I have any choice but to contact him directly.'

metrovelvet

lefttoolate? wrote:

He\'s 14 years old now and is old enough to be able to handle it I reckon.

You dont know this. You dont know what kind of 14 year old he is or what he is like or what he can handle. If he has had bad mothering he may not be able to handle much.

lefttoolate? wrote:

I\'m going to try to contact Jane one last time and try to gain contact with Adam in that way, but if she refuses again I\'m going to try and contact him directly. But how should I go about doing this? As I said all I know about him is what school he is in, and the general area of Dublin that they live in.

If you start trying to make contact subversively you will only be giving reason to Jane's suspicion. Unfortunately, in these matters transparancy is the only way to do it. You will have to "seduce" his mother. Gently gently catch the monkey.

What has your father said about all this? Jane maybe worried that you are doing your dad's dirty work.

LegacyUser

'

metrovelvet wrote:

What has your father said about all this? Jane maybe worried that you are doing your dad\'s dirty work.

\r\n\r\nI talked to him about it after I rang her, before I\'d found out she\'d changed their number and I was still waiting for a reply. I basically told him that a condition of me maybe seeing Adam would be that he wouldn\'t be able to see him. He understood this, it was a pretty difficult conversation, it\'s pretty tough for my Dad, but he basically said to be very careful of Jane and that she can be very manipulative. He was glad that there was some sort of chance of a bit of contact though. This was about two years ago at this stage though. I haven\'t told anybody about this thread.\r\n\r\nOn the phone that time Jane seemed to blame my brother and sister alot for us stopping seeing them, and me too, but they were a bit older then me at the time. They would have been 14 and 15 I think, so she harbours more resentment towards them than to me. She again made me promise that if anything was to go ahead that they\'d have no contact with Adam or no knowledge of it whatsoever. I talked to them about this and said that I may be getting to see Adam but that Jane didn\'t want them to see him. This annoyed them obviously but they understood it and just wanted some sort of contact to be made. \r\n\r\nIf I do manage to get in contact I think I\'ll keep it quiet for a while until I have at least built up some sort of relationship with Adam.'

Nevyn

lefttoolate? wrote:

It\'s pretty simple really,

It isn't and you are simple if you think so.

lefttoolate? wrote:

he\'s my brother and I feel like I have a right to see him, and I also feel that he has a right to know that I want to see him. I think he\'s old enough to be able to make this decision for himself to be honest.

This is clearly about you and your resolved issues; not your half brother.

Get some help for yourself,
some couselling to deal with your issue with your past, what happened to your family and what you went through.

lefttoolate? wrote:

When I was 14 I felt that I was plenty old enough to deal with situations like this,

You are not your half brother, you have not been in his life, you don't know what he can and can not cope with or what he is dealing with atm with his mother.

Don't try and make him choose between you and his mother you know that is where this is heading.

Send him christmas cards, birthday cards if you want to establish contact but you can not force your way into his life.

Sit down and stop thinking about yourself and what you want and think about what the consequences of your actions might be.

What if it all goes badly and because he is dependant on his mother the ensuing up roar means he decided you are a troulbe maker and he never wants to see you for the rest of his life ?

secret_squirrel

I have to say I think you are making a big mistake attempting any form of contact other than through his mother at his current age - regardless of whether she is a bitch or not.

A couple of facts.

You dont have any right to see him.

You dont have any right to judge whats best for him.

Like it or not his mother or possibly your father are the only ones that have any rights over him.

You seem to be persuing this out of pure selfishness. Do as others have advised and leave it until he is old enough to judge for himself.

Another option would be for your Dad to request access rights, - he probably has a reasonable shot through the courts.

Again that is his decision not yours.

Rightly so given that its the welfare of a minor at stake, your wishes dont (and shouldn't) even register.

If this is causing you so much pain - see a counsellor.

lefttoolate? wrote:

If I do manage to get in contact I think I\'ll keep it quiet for a while until I have at least built up some sort of relationship with Adam.'

I think part of the problem is that you have already built a fantasy relationship with your brother in your head.

Its not helping you. Snap out of it ffs.

Elmo

I haven't read all of the posts so for give me if the following questions have been asked of the following statements stated.

I can agree with you that your brother needs to know about his family, he will eventually look you up when the time comes.

I would also worry about your brother. Has he been abused/bullied by his mother in the same way she abuse/bullied your father?

The other thing is he could be completely different to you and your family, his mam's influence could have made him far more like her then you could imagine and really do you want to know another person like her only to have to stop seeing them for the same reasons you stopped seeing her, if he has any resentment it would grow even futher.

Has your father see your brother in the last number of years? Does your father want you to find your brother? After all it is his son. Is your father on your Step-brothers birth cert? Did your father and mother ever try to get your step brother away from his mother? What do you parents think? What does your bother and sister think?

You dont have any right to see him.

You dont have any right to judge whats best for him.

I can agree with this but I can see how hard that is to take. Lets face it most of us wouldn't like to see our family members to be in an abusive relationship or one we think could be abusive.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote:

It isn't and you are simple if you think so.

Well that's not very helpful. I do see your points about it being a bad idea to contact him directly, as I said in my OP, I never really intended to until thinking about it a bit more as a result of posting this. It's just that she is so unreasonable I feel there is very little chance she will allow us to make contact, which does leave me feeling a bit hard done by, but I fully understand that the outcome of this issue shouldn't be dependant on how I feel about the matter. Even just a reassurance that it's HIS decision and not hers is all that I'm looking for. I do feel that he has a right to make this decision for himself at this stage, and that is why I've left it until now.


I understand that I'm not my half brother, and that he could very easily be at a completely different level of maturity to what I was at then. I think I pointed that out already.


I don't need to see a counsellor. I'm perfectly stable and live a normal life. I am very close to the rest of my family and have plenty of friends. This is a difficult enough issue but it's by no means affecting me in such a way that I need to get professional help over the matter. I'm looking for what's best for my brother in this issue, not advice on my own wellbeing. I just want some advice on what the best way to proceed with this matter is, I have gotten some good advice, thank you for giving it.


I respect your opinions on the matter and I think I do agree with you that contacting him directly is a bad idea. So, going back to the original plan of contacting him through his mother, what do you all think is the best way of approaching this? I'm pretty certain that if I could meet her in person she would have different opinions on the matter rather than just a conversation over the phone.


And to whoever said I was being selfish you have it COMPLETELY wrong. It would be impossible for me to completely extricate myself from the situation and look on it from a third party perspective, obviously I am going to have strong feelings on the matter, but all that I am concerned with is the best interests of my brother. I think that he would benefit GREATLY from a relationship with me, but if he doesn't want that then that is fair enough. I just want to know that he is making this decision for himself and it is not forced upon him because of the ulterior motives of his mother. Surely this is reasonable.


If I was being truly selfish surely the easiest thing to do would be to completely forget about the matter and not bother contacting him at all.

LegacyUser

secret_squirrel wrote:

I think part of the problem is that you have already built a fantasy relationship with your brother in your head.

Its not helping you. Snap out of it ffs.

This is really helpful and great advice. Cheers.

secret_squirrel

Elmo wrote:

Lets face it most of us wouldn't like to see our family members to be in an abusive relationship or one we think could be abusive.

Very true. But the OP needs to realise that his brother probably doesnt have any concept of the rest of them as family. Rightly or wrongly thats the facts of the situation.

Its not something that he can be forced to take on - especially a such a young age.

Unless the mother is being abusive enough to warrant interference by the Social Welfare, and she sounds too clever for that, no-one on the fathers side will be able to force the issue.

LegacyUser

'

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its not something that he can be forced to take on - especially a such a young age.\r\n.

\r\n\r\nThis is precisely where you\'re missing the point. I always maintained throughout that it should be his decision. It shouldn\'t be something he should be forced to take on but he shouldn\'t be forced out of knowing us either.'

LegacyUser

'

secret_squirrel wrote:

I think part of the problem is that you have already built a fantasy relationship with your brother in your head.\r\n\r\nIts not helping you. Snap out of it ffs.

\r\n\r\nI am not delusional, and I find this comment very offensive and unhelpful. We\'re not talking about an imaginary friend here, he is a close blood relative who I think would benefit greatly from having a relationship with myself and hopefully some day the rest of my family. His only role model at the moment is his mother, and while I seriously doubt that she physically abuses him she is not mentally stable, I thought I made that clear earlier. This has everything to do with him and very little to do with me although as I said I\'m bound to have some pretty strong feelings on the matter. To expect differently is simply unrealistic.\r\n\r\n\r\nI think people may have been confused about my motives because of the examples I gave of what Jane did when I was a kid. These were purely put there to show what Jane is capable of and that some other influences in Adam\'s life might be healthy. It had nothing to do with a cry for help on my part. I have dealt with all of those issues of how she was to us, and I couldn\'t give a **** about them any more because I see her for what she is, and I can see now that whatever she said or did were purely the acts of a person who needs help and no reflection on us whatsoever.\r\n\r\n\r\nAnyway I\'ve gotten pretty much all the advice I need. I\'m going to contact Jane and attempt to meet her in person because maybe that way I can get through to her. Thanks for your help. Don\'t worry, I have decided against contacting Adam directly no matter what Jane says. Any idea I had of contacting directly was born out of my pure frustration with the whole situation, but I accept that it\'s probably not in his best interests. I think at 16 or 17 he will definitely be old enough (opinions?) and I can wait another 2 or 3 years if it would make the situation easier for him. Thanks again for the responses, I\'ll keep you updated on how my contact with Jane goes if you are interested.'

metrovelvet

Ok this may sound harsh, but I have an older half brother who I did not grow up with and I could give a **** about.

Blood may be thicker than water, but love is thicker than blood. If you are not bonded with him he may feel nothing for you, you are just another stranger.

secret_squirrel

lefttoolate? wrote:

Anyway I've gotten pretty much all the advice I need. I'm going to contact Jane and attempt to meet her in person because maybe that way I can get through to her. Thanks for your help. Don't worry, I have decided against contacting Adam directly no matter what Jane says.

Fair play to ya. Hope it goes ok.

Good luck.

LegacyUser

'

metrovelvet wrote:

Ok this may sound harsh, but I have an older half brother who I did not grow up with and I could give a **** about.\r\n\r\nBlood may be thicker than water, but love is thicker than blood. If you are not bonded with him he may feel nothing for you, you are just another stranger.

\r\n\r\nThat may very well be the case. Only one way to find out though, for my own peace of mind (I know this isn\'t the core issue) I just want to know for sure that he feels this way and it\'s not just his mother influencing him. \r\n\r\nWhat age do you think would be acceptable to approach him at if all doesn\'t go well with his mother? I\'m thinking 16/17?'

metrovelvet

You know everyone is different and some people do feel that bond with their half siblings, regardless of time spent with them. Its just that I dont. He may not but he may.

His mother may well be influencing him, but it also may be a question of loyalty he feels to his mother and if he rejects you now it doesnt mean he always will. Sometimes these things take time and a few attempts.

Does the kid know about you and his other siblings? She may need time to prepare him for this.

Fourteen is a vulnerable age in terms of how your identity is being shaped, etc, especially for a boy who is growing up without a father.

LegacyUser

'Yes he knows about us, we continued to see him until he was three years old. I wasn\'t entirely sure that he would remember us but when I talked to her a couple of years ago she said that he did. I\'m almost certain that she hasn\'t told him that I tried to contact him a couple of years back. I\'m sure he is quite loyal to his mother. Whatever her problems are I know that she really loves my brother, but I personally don\'t think that loyalty should be an issue here. I never personally had a falling out with his mother, it was my Dad that did and we suffered as a result.'