Bertie just said.....

Dr. Nick

....he's gonna roll out b/band to the 10-15% of the country that doesn't have it. (Ard Fheis)

YIPPEEE!!

Vote FF!

The camera moved to Dempsey. He blinked. A lot.

Sponge Bob

and seeing as Bertie obviously has to step in and do Dempseys job for him that was the death knell for Dempseys ministerial career you heard there.

Word is the DCMNR will be abolished as a department after the next election. Bits will go to agriculture and enterprise and to rural affairs.

It will be replaced with a Department of and minister for Energy who will take over the energy semi states and the natural resources brief and some aspects of environment and transport to do with energy matters..

Dr. Nick

Interesting.

But the media like Dempsey because they say he makes tough decisions. However, he has no idea on modern communications, it's a little embaressing.

He actually used to be a teacher of mine. I didn't like him. He seemed to be teaching as a stop-gap before he got into the Dáil.........

Sponge Bob

where is 'his ' communications bill he keeps promising eg

June 2006

Dempsey is afraid of making tough decisions on regulation and communications because he simply cannot understand the whole thing .....so we will never see 'his 'bill and soon he will be a backbencher or junior minister .

smellslikeshoes

They have waited so long to go about this Id say they dont really have a choice. Theres a hell of a lot of people who would not vote for FF because of their lack of action on brodband rollout Including myself.

opinionated

Fair play Bertie...

qwertplaywert

i would vote for whoEVER was going to give bb to rural ireland......and if i was 18 XD

watty

We'll see where we are 6 months after election. Probabily where we are today.

qwertplaywert

yep all talk no action

thefinalstage

Bertie has always been all talk and no trousers...No many promises squashed.

sceptre

Dr. Nick wrote:

....he's gonna roll out b/band to the 10-15% of the country that doesn't have it. (Ard Fheis)

YIPPEEE!!

Vote FF!

The camera moved to Dempsey. He blinked. A lot.

Last election the FF manifesto promised 5 meg broadband nationwide by 2005. Given that that promise was made in an actual printed document and this latest thing was made as a rabble-rousing comment for wallies who might believe it...

Illkillya

Dr. Nick wrote:

....he's gonna roll out b/band to the 10-15% of the country that doesn't have it. (Ard Fheis)

"To the 10-15% of the country that doesn't have it" would imply that 85-90% of the country is currently covered.

Niall1234

Illkillya wrote:

"To the 10-15% of the country that doesn't have it" would imply that 85-90% of the country is currently covered.

Anyone know the actual percentage of the Irish Population that can get Broadband, I would image it is around 85%.

It ain't 85% area wise though.

a line failure

We better throw out the Government next year, just in case.;)

watty

Niall1234 wrote:

Anyone know the actual percentage of the Irish Population that can get Broadband, I would image it is around 85%.

It ain't 85% area wise though.

Due to lines too long and line failure even when not, maybe less than 50% can get DSL.

If you include Wireless, but not ripwave or Satellite, then maybe 60% to 75% can get Broadband. I'm not sure.

Over half of those on Dialup can't get Broadband because either it isn't available or line fails test.

Excluding satellite, I'm sure nothing like 85% can get broadband. Look at figures for DSL, Wireless and Satellite for the Schools Broadband. Is it over 40% for Satellite?

Foxwood

sceptre wrote:

Last election the FF manifesto promised 5 meg broadband nationwide by 2005. Given that that promise was made in an actual printed document and this latest thing was made as a rabble-rousing comment for wallies who might believe it...

There's a copy of FFs 2002 Manifesto on the Irish Times website.

Page 34
KEEPING IRELAND AT THE CUTTING EDGE
An Agenda for the Years Ahead
• We will ensure the putting in place of open-access broadband on a national
basis, to fully include rural communities.

Page 35
DEVELOPING THE REGIONS
A Lot Done Since 1997
...
• Investments in road, rail, water, gas and broadband connectivity will all
contribute to making the regions more attractive
An Agenda for the Years Ahead
...
• We will ensure the putting in place of o
basis, to fully include rural communities.

Page 42
RURAL DEVELOPMENT
An Agenda for the Years Ahead
...
• We will roll-out broadband to make it accessible to as many rural communities as possible.

Page 44
IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF ISLAND LIFE
An Agenda for the Years Ahead
...
• We will provide Broadband technology to offshore islands.

Page 80
THE IRISH LANGUAGE AND THE GAELTACHT
An Agenda for the years ahead
...
• A West Coast Digital Corridor will be developed to provide high-quality
broadband telecommunications facilities for both Gaeltacht and non-Gaeltacht
communities from Donegal to Cork. Údarás na Gaeltachta will be charged with
facilitating the provision of similar facilities in any Gaeltacht areas not covered by the Corridor, where demand exists, including offshore islands.

Page 93
RURAL DEVELOPMENT
An Agenda for the Years Ahead
• We will roll-out broadband to make it accessible to as many rural communities as possible.


Apparently Rural Development is so important to FF that they had to include it twice.

So you should all be twiced as pissed off if your are in one of the many rural communities where broadband still isn't accessibe.

Sponge Bob

watty wrote:

If you include Wireless, but not ripwave or Satellite, then maybe 60% to 75% can get Broadband. I'm not sure.

You are Correct Watty, I currently make it about 65% - 75% population coverage for a BB product including good quality wireless and cable and DSL (as in you pass ) .

Bertie should therefore have a plan to supply BB to the 25%-35% who cannot currently get it.

Foxwood

The 2002 Government Action Plan "New Connections: A strategy to realise the potential of the Information Society" contains this reference to universal 5mbit/s "within 10-15 years"

(1.1) Broadband Infrastructure & Services CMNR
The objectives for broadband infrastructure and services include:

• Making open-access, affordable, always-on broadband infrastructure and services for businesses and citizens available throughout the State within three years.
  
• Broadband speeds of 5mbit/s to the home and substantially higher for business users as the minimum standard within 10-15 years.
  
• Putting infrastructures in place, with Exchequer assistance, to meet the three year objective, capable of being upgraded to meet the long term objective?
  
• Target available funding at procuring open access, local access networks on a PPP-type basis.

(thanks to an anonymous source for the link!)

Sponge Bob

which makes it a failed PD policy too as they were in government back then

5mbits , the only stated universal goal by any Irish government, is now available to about about 40-50% of the population, those who can get cable BB or digiweb metro close in or if they are within 3km of an eircom exchange with BB

Should Bertie not be following a nearly 5 year old policy set by himself and sort out that 5mbits for the other 50-60% (a good few of whom can get 1mbit today but not 5mbits) or should he focus on a universal 1mbit scheme for the 25%-35% who can get nothing useful at present??

Niall1234

Just wondering, but to get 5MB+ broadband, will new exchanges have to be built or is there wiring available to carry DSL for 5MB over 3KM. Just wondering but isn't DSL currently only available for homes within 10KM of an exchange. Anyway to lenght the range ?

Sponge Bob

jeez Niall, no dsl technology of any sort can deliver 5mbits beyondc 3km (at most 4km) save maybe 2 pair HDSL . Eircom exchanges ar elocated normally to do 8km ..sometimes much more in rural areas like 15km .

lots of new exchanges (actually aroadside box with fibre back and copper front) need to be built . I would estimate that each of the 1200 eircom exchanges in the state will require 4 of these boxes each , averaged out, and about 16km of fibre each to backhaul them to the existing exchange...never mind backhauling that as well.

It simply will not happen ...unless maybe ..eircom are split as announced by their CEO to the WSJ on friday.

MontgomeryClift

Maybe all the phone lines are going to get a dig-out.

Niall1234

Sponge Bob wrote:

jeez Niall, no dsl technology of any sort can deliver 5mbits beyondc 3km (at most 4km) save maybe 2 pair HDSL . Eircom exchanges ar elocated normally to do 8km ..sometimes much more in rural areas like 15km .

lots of new exchanges (actually aroadside box with fibre back and copper front) need to be built . I would estimate that each of the 1200 eircom exchanges in the state will require 4 of these boxes each , averaged out, and about 16km of fibre each to backhaul them to the existing exchange...never mind backhauling that as well.

It simply will not happen ...unless maybe ..eircom are split as announced by their CEO to the WSJ on friday.

What are we talking to setup just one of these miniexchanges from a standard exchange ? I'd imagine the extra wiring with the fibre optics cabling with be the priciest bit ?

I say replace every single phone line with fibre optic cabling. WOuld be nice heh

Sponge Bob

assume (worst worst case)

16KM = 16000M OF FIBRE at €100 a metre = €1.6m per exchange .

It could be as low as €12-15 a metre but eircoms maintenance subsidiary need to make a profit somehow .

The cabinet at the end could be as low as €5k but as high as €50k, that will cost €100k once about 25 years of service contracts are loaded on at the taxpayers expense .

Its not worth doing in my opinion, many rural areas should get universal wireless instead .

Capt'n Midnight

Sponge Bob wrote:

Should Bertie not be following a nearly 5 year old policy set by himself and sort out that 5mbits for the other 50-60% (a good few of whom can get 1mbit today but not 5mbits) or should he focus on a universal 1mbit scheme for the 25%-35% who can get nothing useful at present??

The best predictor for the future is the past...

"A lot done, a lot more to do." :rolleyes:

Either keep promises or explain why they aren't kept, don't keep making them if there is no evidence of them being kept.

Niall1234

Sponge Bob wrote:

assume (worst worst case)

16KM = 16000M OF FIBRE at €100 a metre = €1.6m per exchange .

It could be as low as €12-15 a metre but eircoms maintenance subsidiary need to make a profit somehow .

The cabinet at the end could be as low as €5k but as high as €50k, that will cost €100k once about 25 years of service contracts are loaded on at the taxpayers expense .

Its not worth doing in my opinion, many rural areas should get universal wireless instead .

Question is, will the government force companies with wireless systems already setup, to rent their setups to other companies.

Sponge Bob

no. .they do not have monopolies do they Niall and cannot be regulated in that way.

nor have they breached their wireless licences like eircom did with impunity in the 3.5ghz band

the possible exceptions are Voda and O2 but only those two. I would like to see them as part of the solution and Voda have certainly acted in the general public interest since the summer when they launched their flat rate bb for €50 .

pm.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Voda have certainly acted in the general public interest since the summer when they launched their flat rate bb for €50 .

true but its only available in towns not much good for rural ireland, what type of timescale before the rest of ireland is up to speed?

Sponge Bob

it already has the same geograpic coverage as adsl, **** all in other words

red and orange bits (orange variable but hey , whats DSL)

http://62.17.23.101:8080/liteview6.5/servlet/MapGuideLiteView?REQUEST=MAP&WIDTH=900&HEIGHT=900&FORMAT=PNG&LAYERS=VodafoneCoverCombo.mwf&BBOX=-50000,0,450000,500000

smellslikeshoes

pm. wrote:

true but its only available in towns not much good for rural ireland, what type of timescale before the rest of ireland is up to speed?

I know that you are talking in terms of broadband speeds but even if you are in a rural area like myself vodafones unlimited 3g working at gsm speeds is a hell of a lot better than dialup.

pm.

Sponge Bob wrote:

it already has the same geograpic coverage as adsl, **** all in other words

red and orange bits (orange variable but hey , whats DSL)

http://62.17.23.101:8080/liteview6.5/servlet/MapGuideLiteView?REQUEST=MAP&WIDTH=900&HEIGHT=900&FORMAT=PNG&LAYERS=VodafoneCoverCombo.mwf&BBOX=-50000,0,450000,500000

if you take all the red bits it wouldn't fit into cork/kerry, i reckon it will be a long time before rural ireland is sorted, hell im only 8 miles from mullingar its hardly rural, id get more excited about flies walking up a wall, more ff lies imo:mad:

Heinrich

Just because these dumb clucks say it does not oblige us to believe it!

Bertie is the King of Waffle and bully to those who believe the waffle but spare us the pain.

Here's his pal:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/foolbush.mov

Capt'n Midnight

pm. wrote:

true but its only available in towns not much good for rural ireland, what type of timescale before the rest of ireland is up to speed?

Can't you still get slow coverage in the sticks ?
And it's half paid for with savings on line rental. ( I asked and was told that even if you fall back to slower modes there are no time based charges )

For those who only get 14.4Kb on dialup is it worth considering ?

use http://www.siteviewer.ie to see what type of masts are near you.

pm.

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Can't you still get slow coverage in the sticks ?
And it's half paid for with savings on line rental. ( I asked and was told that even if you fall back to slower modes there are no time based charges )

For those who only get 14.4Kb on dialup is it worth considering ?

use http://www.siteviewer.ie to see what type of masts are near you.

tbh i kinda have half bb ( im with last mile ) its a lot better than dialup but not worth a fcuk when dowloading.

Kristok

Why is this even being talked about he wont and probably cant do anything and noone expects him to just like every other aspect of irish life the government promises the world and delivers a document with crazy figures to claim they have done something that they havnt. Vote sinn fein they might be crazy but at least they do what they say.

Liam Byrne

Can't you still get slow coverage in the sticks ?

God bless your innocence......the only crowd that could give me BB were Smart Telecom because their distance-from-exchange is longer, and that's inside the city boundary! Even then, I can't get the speed upgrade that they offered due to crap copper.

The "remaining 10-15%" part of Bertie's statement is pure fiction; I'd guess that there is AT LEAST 40% of the population that can't get broadband; remember that we're talking proper broadband (>512Kbps) and not the sub-dialup speeds that some wireless operators appear to offer.

Capt'n Midnight

Liam Byrne wrote:

God bless your innocence......

Sorry I was referring to the Vodaphone service fall back.

As for eircom's "copper" my comment about 14.4Kb unfortunatly is true for some - the joys of a USO.

godskitchen

Anyone who said fair play Bertie or lapped praise upon him is a clown, its coming near to an election and your believing something he is saying, the guy is a born liar and he is lol at everyone in this counrty for letting him off the hook for that crap with the gifts, this country sickens me, and a lot of the people in it, im sorry i came back when i hear "well done bertie"!

patmac

I'm still not voting for the witch Mary O'Rourke who's policy of selling off Eircom too early must be one of the stupidest decisions FF ever made I can't wait for her to come canvassing around even if Halloween is over.

Sponge Bob

But Patmac, you are not one of the 15% that Bertie says he will do something for, you belong to the 85% who are just fine and dandy instead .

Liam Byrne

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Sorry I was referring to the Vodaphone service fall back.

Sorry, Cap'n....my mistake!