[PR] Cyclists oppose opening bus lanes to motorbikes

Victor

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From: Dublin Cycling Campaign
Date: Thurs 2 November 2006
For Immediate Use
Press Release: Cyclists oppose opening bus lanes to motorbikes.

The Dublin Cycling Campaign (DCC) has today come out against the opening up of bus lanes in Dublin to motorbikes. David Maher (PRO of the DCC) explained "from a cyclist perspective this would be a retrograde step as it would certainly increase the level of danger faced by cyclists." Maher explained that in a study of road fatalities in the Netherlands about 5 years ago had lead to a rethink in that country on the suitability of mixing motorcyclists and cyclists.

Maher continued "there are a number of measures that could be taken that would greatly reduce congestion and road safety dangers faced by motorcyclists and cyclists. Examples include - a ban on HGVs entering the canal cordon, city centre congestion charging and the roll out of a series of speed cameras across suburban Dublin. But of course none of these measures have been taken because there is no political will to push through such measures."

Maher dismissed the comments of AA is support this measure by saying "the AA seems determined that anyone and everyone should be allowed use combined bus and cycle lanes, from motorbikes, to 3 occupants SUVs. What will the AA suggest next - an exemption for parrot owning, one legged pirates !"

ENDS
David Maher is PRO of the Dublin Cycling Campaign which represents commuter cyclists in Dublin

Drax

The majority of cyclists that I have seen dont seem to know the rules of the road and think that other vehicles will automatically stop for them even if they are in the wrong. I am all for cycling but maybe some 'cyclist training' would be better rather than whinging about motorbikes in bus lanes.
As a biker, I think this is a great step. As far as I am aware, it was piloted up the North 2 years ago and has been allowed ever since. I do disagree with motorbikes using cycle lanes to filter up through traffic but they should be allowed to use bus lanes.

tunney

Drax, motorbike rider training could also help. Motorbike tearing up cycling lanes revving engines and beeping their horns to try and get the cyclists to get out of their way is quite common.

Whatever the mode of transport I think its safe to say that training is required.

Drax

tunney wrote:

Drax, motorbike rider training could also help. Motorbike tearing up cycling lanes revving engines and beeping their horns to try and get the cyclists to get out of their way is quite common.

Whatever the mode of transport I think its safe to say that training is required.

I agree tunney, training would be good for bikers. In fact I think it should be mandatory for new bikers. As I said, bikers using a cycle lane is a no-no! I just think that a lot of cyclists seem to think that because they are not motorised that the rules of the road dont apply. Thats my opinion anyway.

saobh_ie

So he's voicing his object to something thats already common practise, recommended or at least overlooked by the vast majority of Dublin Gardaí and now getting the support of the Goverment.

Every motorcyclist I know uses the buslanes where there is an advantage in terms of safety or progress to be had. Gardaí have approached people who are filtering (legally & safely) and told them they can use the buslane if they want in order to make swifter progress.

Allowed or not motorcyclists will be using the buslanes and I would of liked to think that another minority group, cyclists, wouldn't of kicked up a fuss. Motorcyclists are, by nessesity, much more aware of cyclists than other road users. Hell, I've yielded to them in situations where they can filter faster and generally ride in such a manner that its a rare occurance when one of them has to change speed or direction on my account.

As for motorcycles in cycle lanes, its a stupid place to go on a bike. Motorcycle tires unlike the crap on most bicycles will suck up all the crap in them, your not expected to be there, you can see nothing and are complelty at the mercey of the car on your right and you inevitably get stuck behind a cyclist and can't get out of the lane. Tis utterly stupid. Unless your turning left and only need to be in there for two car lenghts to get to the traffic lights.

egan007

great another motorist v cyclist thread.....

Drax

egan007 wrote:

great another motorist v cyclist thread.....

Good man egan. Very helpful indeed. Why dont you save your moaning for your blog. This issue happens to be a current one and is very important to motorcyclists. The fact is there is (as usual), some group objecting to the implementation of a system that, in my opinion would be beneficial to all road users from a safety standpoint.

daymobrew

tunney wrote:

Whatever the mode of transport I think its safe to say that training is required.

Very wise words!

Drax - as a motorcyclist it is not surprising that you feel that cyclists need training. A cyclist will, unsurprisingly, have the exact opposite opinion. Both are generalisations, not always right, not always wrong.

egan007 wrote:

great another motorist v cyclist thread.....

egan007 has a point - you are never going to get both sides to agree.

murphaph

So we're all in agreement then, buses should not be allowed in buslanes.

Pigeon Reaper

I cycled everywhere up until recently. I now have a motorbike aswell as my bicycle. I foresee motorbikes causing any major conflicts with cyclists. However I do agree that some people on both bikes and motorbikes are dangerous and training can help. I think DCC would be better campaigning for mirrors on HGVs better cycle lanes and educating cyclists on their own safety than to expend effort in objecting to another vunerable road user being granted safer passage. This objection could be seen as a retrograde step and be damaging for DCC campaigns.

PS motorbikes should steer clear of cycle lanes.

gline

i dont really see the problem, as an ex-biker myself from observation most bikers use the buse lanes anyway so whats the big problem, im sure accidents involving motorcycle and pushbike collisions are very small compared to bike and car collisions, i rarely if ever saw a motorcycle crash into a cyclist or beep at them aor rev their engine, it is just done by a few muppets and cant be said of all bikers, bikers have a bad name with practically everyone, but you cant paint everyone with the same brush.

it would be safer for everyone if bikers can offically use the bus lanes.

HJ Simpson

As a cyclist/commuter I wouldnt have a problem with this at all. Most motorcyclist generally use bus lanes anyway. They are usually fairly aware of cyclists and try to give us plenty of room. I have been yielded to on many occasion by motorcyclists in bus lanes when I am trying to pass a weaving idiot on a bike crawling along in front of me.
I do have a problem with motorcyclist tearing up cycle lanes behind me. I dont move out of their way and just continue as I was
HJS

tunney

Off topic but..... I used to cycle up past St Patricks Cathedral to work. Most mornings the same bike would try to force his/her way up the bike lane, revving and beeping the whole way.

One day he drove past/through me and started to revv/bep another cyclist. it was a Garda cyclist - was brilliant to watch.

Hotblack Desiato

I agree with everything PigeonReaper said. This PR just makes DCC look like a bunch of cranks in my opinion. They'd be far better off spending their time trying to do something constructive for cycle safety, instead of begrudging other vulnerable road users. Bicycle/motorcycle collisions are thankfully extremely rare, and a law change here will change nothing on the ground as motorcycles routinely use bus lanes anyway. I know a large number of motorcyclists and I've only ever heard of two bicycle/motorcycle collisions among my acquaitances, both were the fault of the bicyclist breaking the law, and both left the motorcyclist over €1000 out of pocket for damage that wasn't his fault. Because cyclists aren't insured and there's no point sueing a student.

By the way, where a cycle lane is separated from the road by a broken white line, motorcycles (and all other motor vehicles) are allowed to enter it. Some bus lanes do not have enough room for the bus to pass without driving on the cycle 'lane' and more than once I have seen Dublin Bus drivers run cyclists off the road. Perhaps DCC should be addressing that?

cyclopath2001

ninja900 wrote:

By the way, where a cycle lane is separated from the road by a broken white line, motorcycles (and all other motor vehicles) are allowed to enter it.

Correction: motor vehicles are permitted to drive along such cycle tracks. But, they are not permitted to stop in one.

jman0

I agree that it's bad publicity for DCC.
If anybody should be objecting to motorcycles and scooters in the Bus Lane surely it's those commuters that ride the bus!

Insofar as i can tell, DCC is not particularly interested in actually promoting cycling.

Hotblack Desiato

jman0 wrote:

I agree that it's bad publicity for DCC.
If anybody should be objecting to motorcycles and scooters in the Bus Lane surely it's those commuters that ride the bus!

They would have no reason to object, as motorcycles do not obstruct or slow down buses (as cyclists sometimes do, unfortunately)

Insofar as i can tell, DCC is not particularly interested in actually promoting cycling.

The real danger to cyclists in bus lanes is from buses and taxis whose drivers aren't always patient enough to wait for a safe overtaking opportunity. DCC missed the opportunity to highlight this and call for proper cycle lanes. I can't for the life of me figure out why they let that go and chose to have a pop at motorcyclists instead.

faceman

As both a cyclist and a biker i was surprised by the DCC's statement about bus lanes.

Because road safety law is not enforced on cyclists its very arrogant of the DCC pass comment on other road users. Stones in glass houses etc.

There is one grudge i will hold against cyclists and the law in this country. A friend of mine was pulling out of his driveway in his car one evening (it was getting dark.) He was driving face forward (i.e. not reversing) and slowly pulled out. As he was clear his drive an adult male cyclists, with no lights, crashed into the side of my mates car. Long story short, took my mate to court and won!!

ok slightly off topic, but my point is, why wasnt it commented on the cyclists lack of lights and driving on the path???

However as bitter as i am, i always give way to cyclists when im on my motorbike. Not out of respect but because all of them pull out without looking anyway.

secret_squirrel

As both a cyclist and Motorcyclist I'd have to condem that spouting by the DCC.

Tbh though it looked like he was using the press release to have a general rant.

Desperate for press attention by any chance?

I cant see the issue of both cyclists and motorcyclists using bus lanes. Seems perfectly safe to me.

daymobrew

faceman wrote:

Because road safety law is not enforced on cyclists its very arrogant of the DCC pass comment on other road users. Stones in glass houses etc.

It is enforced - talk to the Garda Traffic Division at Store Street. The Inspector there told me that his lads do prosecute cyclists for lack of lights. As a cyclists I agree that they should be more aggressive.

faceman wrote:

There is one grudge i will hold against cyclists and the law in this country. A friend of mine was pulling out of his driveway in his car one evening (it was getting dark.) He was driving face forward (i.e. not reversing) and slowly pulled out. As he was clear his drive an adult male cyclists, with no lights, crashed into the side of my mates car. Long story short, took my mate to court and won!!

Because of one idiot cyclist who seems to have issues seeing and making himself seen you are going to tarnish the rest of us negatively. If you read other threads here you will see that the law abiding cyclists here hate being associated with cyclists like the fool that crashed into your friend's car.
A Garda in Cabra told me that even if a cyclist is at fault, the courts tend to judge in favour of the cyclist. It's probably because the cyclist is the vulnerable road user.

faceman wrote:

ok slightly off topic, but my point is, why wasnt it commented on the cyclists lack of lights and driving on the path???

The press release was about bus lanes, not paths

faceman wrote:

However as bitter as i am, i always give way to cyclists when im on my motorbike. Not out of respect but because all of them pull out without looking anyway.

There is that big tarnish brush again. :rolleyes:

seamus

David Maher is a hack. He thinks he speaks for cyclists, but him and his organisation are one of those "We've never spoken to any cyclists, but we know what's best for them, because we are cyclists too" ones. He's an example of the "Cyclists should have more rights than any other road users" mentality.

If motorcyclists are allowed to use the bus lanes, and the local authorities make a point of advertising good practice in the bus lanes, there won't be a problem. As it stands, a certain proportion of motorcyclists will rush down the bus lane, so as not to get caught (while the rest of them drive sanely). If driving in the bus lanes is made legal, then it should actually be safer to cycle in the bus lanes.

I've been on both sides of the coin here. Some motorcyclists do stupid bloody things in their effort get out of the bus lane (overtaking me on the left at ~40mph - his speed), and plenty of cyclists wander in out of the bus lanes, without making an effort to look out for motorcycles (or even other cyclists)

robfitz

I'm also a member of DCC. This was my comment on this issue.

I don't have a huge problem with this idea. The issues I see are
overtaking distances, overtaking speeds, other road users crossing a bus
lane which will how have (more) high speed motorcycles going through it,
and discrimination against motorcyclists for not using bus lane (like
cyclists who don't use the cycle tracks).

Also bare in mind that a lot (most?) of the bus lanes (and cycle tracks)
don't operate 24/7 anyway. So the law of driving to the left apples,
all road user should drive to the left which would allow the motorcycles to
overtake to the right.

blorg

I'm a cyclist and a DCC member and I think they are wrong on this one. I think motorbikes are generally quite sensitive to cyclists, certainly by far the least of our worries on the roads. TBH I would probably put other cyclists and pedestrians above motorcylists on the general threatometer. In bus lanes, buses and taxis overtaking dangerously are the main threat, not motorbikes.

secret_squirrel

Speaking with my motorcyclist head (helmet?) on, one of the reasons we tend to be more aware of Cyclists is that we are generally similarly vunerable.

Our extra protection and slight size & height advantage tends to get cancelled out by our extra speed, maneouverability and stopping time.

Hence I tend to view cyclists as just slower versions of motorcyclists and am careful around them accordingly.