The Velvet Underground

fish-head

Would any of you guys consider the VU experimental? I'd say they definitely are, they were at the avant garde of rock music back in their day. I've been listening to their album White Light/White Heat solidly all week, it's irresistable. Screeching feedback, howling fuzz, distorto-organ, 17 minute long noise fests, short stories.. all in a days work for the VU.

John

I don't know how experimental you could call it now but I say back in the day they sounded like the aliens were landing. Especially on that White Light/White Heat album, some of the guitar is incredibly wild. Even after listening to it regularly for years I still get shivers when I hear Lou go off on one.

fish-head

His style is so completely unorthodox. I belive it's a two step technique, 1. Step on fuzzbox, 2. Strangle guitar. I can't get enough of WhiteLight/WhiteHeat.. in fact i'm listening to it now.

Kolodny

I was just talking to a friend yesterday about the many tangents each of them would go off on during just one track. Sometimes I thought Maureen Tucker was desperately trying to reign them all in again with an often slightly off-kilter rhythm - other times I thought she was just trying confuse things further

kinaldo

Who cares? They rock!

Ghost Rider

Easy, now. We wouldn't want this thread moved to Alternative & Indie...!

kinaldo wrote:

Who cares? They rock!

John

Yeah, they're a bunch of saps over in Alt&Indie

Have any of you heard The Quine Tapes box set? Some nice versions of their songs, really long and slowed down versions. I remember "Sister Ray" and "Waiting for my Man" being especially good. The quality is quite good considering they're audience recordings that have been in storage for years.

cornbb

I would definitely agree that they're experimental. I did my thesis on drone music, John Cale (who played viola for VU in their earlier days) was regarded pretty highly in experimental circles. Fantastic music though, very accessible.

John

I love what I've heard of Cale's stuff with Dream Syndicate, really trancy. You can hear how he went from that to VU on tracks like "Heroin" when he just drones all the way through the song.

fish-head

Yeah, the droning viola is brilliant.. so effective. Especially when it gets really distorted. Apparently they went a bit straight after Cale left, seems he was the real experimental influence. I've only got their first two albums so I wouldn't know.

John

The third album is still pretty out there (The Murder Mystery in particular) but yeah they kind of just became Lou Reed and Three More. That being said I do like the post-Cale stuff a lot but it's pop music. The first two albums are life-changing.

fish-head

John wrote:

The first two albums are life-changing.

Totally. Though I can take or leave Nico.. silly bint.

John

Pish-posh, she's as much a part of VU as any of them!

fish-head

John wrote:

Pish-posh, she's as much a part of VU as any of them!

Ah now, why do you think they called it The Velvet Underground and Nico?
Warhol insisted she was in on it, the bollock.

John

Yeah but Reed and Cale willingly worked with her after it so they must have thought she had talent. Having heard the likes "Femme Fetale" and "All Tomorrow's Parties" with Reed singing I can honestly say that Nico is queen. Such a great voice.

fish-head

Yeah they did all believe they could sing, but I prefer the songs on that album without her mostly. With the exception of ATP. That song is too cool, reminds me of Tomorrow Never Knows.

Speaking of that.. the Beatles.. Experimental?

Whim

The VU were definately experimental. Any band that influential had to have been. A screeching viola, haunting drums, bare vocals. What's not influential.

Also I think that Loaded contians some experimental elements in terms of the solos and the lyrics.

The Beatles were certainly a mixed bag when it came to experimental music. No doubt they pushed the boundaries of modern music on the likes of Sgt. Pepper, Revolver and Abbey Road but on the other hand they remained very much in the mainstream and are often used to represent pop music when people talk about the Velvets and Dylan.

Ghost Rider

I totally agree. Nico's voice adds a whole 'nother dimension to VU - an elegiac and very European sensibility. And, to anyone who doubts her credentials as an experimental artist in her own right, her album "The Marble Index" should put manners on you.

By the way, everyone in the world should be in a position to play Nico's supremely gorgeous song "These Days" at any moment in their lives when it is needed. To that end, maybe some day a charity will distribute a 5MB MP3 player with that song pre-loaded on it to every person in the world.

Or maybe not.

John wrote:

Yeah but Reed and Cale willingly worked with her after it so they must have thought she had talent. Having heard the likes "Femme Fetale" and "All Tomorrow's Parties" with Reed singing I can honestly say that Nico is queen. Such a great voice.

John

Ghost Rider wrote:

By the way, everyone in the world should be in a position to play Nico's supremely gorgeous song "These Days" at any moment in their lives when it is needed. To that end, maybe some day a charity will distribute a 5MB MP3 player with that song pre-loaded on it to every person in the world.

A nice idea, maybe something like those Buddha Machines that were all the rage a few months ago.

Ghost Rider

What in God's name are they?

John wrote:

A nice idea, maybe something like those Buddha Machines that were all the rage a few months ago.

DadaKopf

Ye can get them in Berlin. Ask Herv or Watts. They're wee little plastic boxes that play a pre-loaded set of tunes. I'm sure yous guys could release summat on them, or shove Nico on em! They cost about 25 blips.

Anywho, I'd call VU experimental. Someone once went through, nearly not by note, why they're so amazing once. Apart from the lyrics and all, Cale threw in loads of deliberately flat or sharp notes, dissonance and drone, which he got from all crazy stuff like Japanese music and through his work with La Monte Young etc, just to **** **** up.

Really love his drone stuff, too. Days of Niagra is good, but I really love Sun Blindness Music.

John

Link to FM3's site (guys who make the Buddha Machine).

DadaKopf wrote:

Someone once went through, nearly not by note, why they're so amazing once.

DadaKopf, do you have a link to that by any chance?

mike65

Okay this is a bit naughty but in glorious hard panned stereorama here is The Gift

Mike.

John

Naughty indeed.

mike65

Well it was already out there on someones blog!

Mike.

John

It's ok, I'm sure everyone here has bought at least two copies of White Light/White Heat.

fish-head

John wrote:

It's ok, I'm sure everyone here has bought at least two copies of White Light/White Heat.

Haha yeah. You're right there.

DadaKopf

Well, one on mini-dik, the other on the VU box set.

John

I keep meaning to get that box, so pretty.

PsychForm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300054910309

did you guys watch this?!?!?!? amazing....

John

I missed the whole thing. Bargain price though. I hope something is done with it and that it's not just left to gather dust in some collector's vault. It would have made a better bonus disc on that disappointing special edition of VU & Nico rather than the mono mix of the album.

PsychForm

to much high profile hype surrounding this baby.....something will come of it...

John

There was a bootleg of this circulating for a while (allegedly recorded from Moe Tucker's copy of the acetate) but I haven't heard it yet.

PsychForm

Check it out....eBay fraud extrodinare...

www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/14/vintagevelvet.ap/index.html

John

Hmmm, so there's hope for me to buy it yet! Who wants to go halfsies on it?

rcaz

John wrote:

It's ok, I'm sure everyone here has bought at least two copies of White Light/White Heat.

One vinyl, one CD. Santy brought me the CD, so I can enjoy it wherever I care to wander. I was a good boy

rcaz

I Heard Her Call My Name - isn't that the way all guitar solos should be? None of this 'shred' lark, let's have some incomprehensable noise!

John

Precisely, I want pure, raw energy coming from my fingers, not precision and fancy scales.

rcaz

But, as DadaKopf was saying about Cale, isn't it all very precise? All the notes that sound out of place were meant to be there? That's what I like, someone who knows what he's doing, but not trying to impress people, just being cool.

fish-head

El Pr0n wrote:

But, as DadaKopf was saying about Cale, isn't it all very precise? All the notes that sound out of place were meant to be there? That's what I like, someone who knows what he's doing, but not trying to impress people, just being cool.

Ah now.. in the later parts of Sister Ray his organ soloing is anything but precise.. he sounds like he's playing with his elbows!

Colonel Kurtz

True....But Sister Ray just would'nt be the same without that Kamikaze organ, it's an integral part of that glorious 17 minute rush

fish-head

Oh I wasn't saying anything negative about it, it's my favourite part of any Velvets song.

bconniffe

fish-head wrote:

Totally. Though I can take or leave Nico.. silly bint.

"the marble index" is a damn good album.

MadsL

Nova (Rte Lyric Fm) did a 2 hour special on the velvets couple of weeks ago...
It's gone from the site now....


...but I happen to have a linky!

rtsp://streaming2.rte.ie/2007/0304/04032007rte-lyr-nova.rm


(Bernard Clarke is my John Peel....)

MadsL

oh you might need Real Alternative (google it dammit) rather than that nasty ole RealPlayer

Sonnenblumen

fish-head wrote:

Would any of you guys consider the VU experimental? I'd say they definitely are, they were at the avant garde of rock music back in their day. I've been listening to their album White Light/White Heat solidly all week, it's irresistable. Screeching feedback, howling fuzz, distorto-organ, 17 minute long noise fests, short stories.. all in a days work for the VU.

In its day no question, but what have they achieved since other than living off the gains. No problem with that but its hardly experimental , I mean to spend 40 years trapped in a riff?

LR is an overated artist, but also a conceited and arrogant effer (IMO).

MadsL

In its day no question, but what have they achieved since other than living off the gains

Oh let's see...

John Cale

Vintage Violence (Columbia) December 1970
The Academy in Peril (Reprise) April 1972
Paris 1919 (Reprise) March 1973
Fear (Island) September 1974
Slow Dazzle (Island) March 1975
Helen of Troy (Island) November 1975
Guts (compilation) (Island) February 1977
Sabotage/Live (IRS) December 1979
Honi Soit March 10, 1981
Music For A New Society (Ze) August 1982
Caribbean Sunset (Ze) June 1983
John Cale Comes Alive (Ze) September 1984
Artificial Intelligence (Beggars Banquet) September 1985
Words for the Dying (Opal/Warner Bros.) October 1989
Even Cowgirls Get The Blues (live) (ROIR) 1991
Paris S'eveille, Suivi d'Autres Compositions (OST) (Crepuscule) November 1991
Fragments of a Rainy Season (live) (Hannibal) October 1992
23 Solo Pieces pour La Naissance de L'Amour (Crepuscule) November 1993
N'Oublie Pas Que Tu Vas Mourir (Crepuscule) 1994
Seducing Down The Door (compilation) (Rhino) 1994
Antartida (OST) (Crepuscule) 1995
Walking on Locusts (Hannibal) September 1996
Eat/Kiss: Music for the Films of Andy Warhol (Hannibal) June 1997
Somewhere In The City (OST) August 1998
Nico: Dance Music October 1998
The Unknown (OST) (Crepuscule) 1999
Le Vent De La Nuit (OST) (Crepuscule) March 1999
Close Watch: An Introduction to John Cale (compilation) - 1999
5 Tracks (EP) (EMI) May 2003
HoboSapiens (EMI) October 2003 5* reviews left right and centre
Process (OST) (Syntax) July 2005
blackAcetate (EMI) October 2005
Jumbo In Tha Modern World (CD single) (EMI) July 2006
Circus Live (live) (EMI) February 2007

Collaborations
Church of Anthrax (with Terry Riley) (Columbia) April 1971
June 1, 1974 (with Kevin Ayers, Brian Eno, Nico) (Island) 1974
Songs for Drella (with Lou Reed) (WEA) April 1990
Wrong Way Up (with Brian Eno) (All Saints) October 1990
Last Day on Earth (OST, with Bob Neuwirth) (MCA) May 1994
"First Evening" by Hector Zazou featuring John Cale, from the Hector Zazou album Sahara Blue (La Grande Hall-La Villette/Crammed Discs) 1992
"The Long Voyages" (single) by Hector Zazou featuring Suzanne Vega & John Cale, from the Hector Zazou album Chansons des mers froides (Sony Music) 1995
I Wanna Be Around (with Jools Holland's Small World Big Band) (Import) 2001
Le Bataclan '72 (with Lou Reed and Nico) 2004

Productions
The Stooges (by The Stooges) (Elektra) 1969
The Marble Index (by Nico) 1969
Desertshore (by Nico) 1970
Jennifer (by Jennifer Warnes) 1972
The End (by Nico) 1973
Horses (by Patti Smith) (Arista) 1975
The Modern Lovers (by Jonathan Richman and The Modern Lovers) (Beserkley) 1976
UK Squeeze (by UK Squeeze) 1978 - in US - Squeeze (by Squeeze) - in UK
Squirrel and G-Man Twenty Four Hour Party People Plastic Face Carnt Smile (White Out)(by Happy Mondays) 1987
Louise Féron (by Louise Féron) (Virgin) 1991
The Rapture (by Siouxsie and the Banshees) (Wonderland) 1994


Lou Reed

Lou Reed (1972) US #189
Transformer (1972) US #29, Gold, UK #13
Berlin (1973) US #98, UK #7
Sally Can't Dance (1974) US #10
Metal Machine Music (1975)
Coney Island Baby (1976) US #41, UK #52
Rock and Roll Heart (1976) US #64
Street Hassle (1978) US #89
The Bells (1979) US #130
Growing Up in Public (1980) US #158
The Blue Mask (1982) US #169
Legendary Hearts (1983) US #159
New Sensations (1984) US #54, UK #92
Mistrial (1986) US #47, UK #69
New York (1989) US #40, Gold, UK #14
Magic and Loss (1992) US #80, UK #6
Set the Twilight Reeling (1996) US #110, UK #26
Ecstasy (2000) US #183, UK #54
The Raven (2003)
Hudson River Wind Meditations (2007)

Lazy buggers....

:rolleyes: