Maynooth Line post-Spencer Dock

Zebra3

I'm just wondering how much of a success this is gonna turn out to be. FF sent some stuff in my door a couple of days ago boasting about how much extra capacity there is gonna be on the Maynooth line next year after Docklands opens. However, will it be any use?

Will arriving in SD be of any use to large numbers of people who currently use another form of transport in to Dublin's city centre or for those who currently alight at Connolly, Tara St, or Pearse? Is it going to be a white elephant? (Yeah, I know Navan will have a rail link by.... ). :rolleyes:

It seems the extra services, which will end up in Docklands, won't be stopping at Drumcondra. Surely given the numbers currently using that station it would be worth building a new station in the area? If running costs are a problem, maybe it would be better to close the existing one then as it seems more trains will be running to Docklands than to Pearse. Is this right?

I'd be glad if anyone can clear any of these points up.

Victor

Spencer Dock won't open for another decade. Do you have a copy of what they sent you, can you scan it for us?

The existing services will operate as-is through Drumcondra to Connolly / Pearse / where ever. Additional services will operate to Maynooth-Broombridge-Docklands.

What Docklands / Midlands line operations might allow is a breathing space for Connolly - Glasnevin junction to be electrified.

See: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

The layout will be something like the attached (existing DART in dark green, Interconnector (2015) in red, Midlands line in navy).

Zebra3

Apologies!!!!!!

Meant to say Docklands, not Spencer Dock.

Damn nightshifts!!!!

Navan Junction

There seems to be space there for extra platforms, but without seeing the plans I can't be sure if that space is to be ear-marked for other uses..

Victor

Navan Junction wrote:

There seems to be space there for extra platforms, but without seeing the plans I can't be sure if that space is to be ear-marked for other uses..

All that space is needed for the tunnel works for the Interconnector.

Navan Junction

Victor wrote:

All that space is needed for the tunnel works for the Interconnector.

But on the Croke Park side there is room by the looks of it too

Victor

Navan Junction wrote:

But on the Croke Park side there is room by the looks of it too

Tunnel goes Spencer Dock - Pearse - Heuston. Nowhere near Croke Park.

daymobrew

Zebra3 wrote:

Will arriving in SD be of any use to large numbers of people who currently use another form of transport in to Dublin's city centre or for those who currently alight at Connolly, Tara St, or Pearse?

It's not much of a walk from the Docklands station (due to open March 2007 I believe) to Connolly, Tara St or Pearse.
The inbound journey should be a few minutes shorter because Drumcondra is skipped and because it will avoid the conjestion in Connolly. That 'extra' time will be taken up walking so the total door-to-door time should be very similar (and you get a bit of exercise for free ).

Navan Junction

Victor wrote:

Tunnel goes Spencer Dock - Pearse - Heuston. Nowhere near Croke Park.

I know that! I mean on the Amiens St side, between the new platform and the canal, there is space..

jd

Victor wrote:

Spencer Dock won't open for another decade. Do you have a copy of what they sent you, can you scan it for us?

The existing services will operate as-is through Drumcondra to Connolly / Pearse / where ever. Additional services will operate to Maynooth-Broombridge-Docklands.

What Docklands / Midlands line operations might allow is a breathing space for Connolly - Glasnevin junction to be electrified.

See: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

The layout will be something like the attached (existing DART in dark green, Interconnector (2015) in red, Midlands line in navy).

Are you sure you have this right, victor?
Post interconnector, dart services will run ballbriggan/howth via interconnector to heuston, and then onto the Kildare Line.
Bray/Greystones will run through Pearse/Tara/Connolly and on to Maynooth.
Both of these lines will stop at Pearse.
jd

gobdaw

jd wrote:

Are you sure you have this right, victor?
Post interconnector, dart services will run ballbriggan/howth via interconnector to heuston, and then onto the Kildare Line.
Bray/Greystones will run through Pearse/Tara/Connolly and on to Maynooth.
Both of these lines will stop at Pearse.
jd

Both right, actually!

jd is describing post interconnector, if built as proposed while Victor is describing the temporary station which will be called "Docklands", served by the Midland line which runs along the canal, avoiding Drumcondra. Spencer Dock will be a different station close to Dockland, served by both Midland and Drumcondra lines and on to the Interconnector. At that stage, it is proposed to demolish Docklands.

Victor

Navan Junction wrote:

I know that! I mean on the Amiens St side

Ah, the problem being Croke Park is north of the Midland line.

Navan Junction wrote:

between the new platform and the canal, there is space..

Won't happen. Its too close to the canal on a variety of safety and environemental reasons. Also the actual stone canal wall (partially visible in some other photos) may be unsafe and thats why its supported by the bank of clay.

Murt10

I went down to see Spencer Dock today and I'm shocked.

This must be one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen in my life. Most of the traffic that I see on the Sligo/Maynooth line comprises commuters going into offices and shops in town (both Northside and Southside) or students getting off at Drumcondra where the new train won't even stop.

The station is miles away from Connolly, which is where people will have to walk to, to connect to a train for the Southside. It's as far from O'Connell St as Heuston is. It's only going to serve a small number of people living and working down in the North docks/North Wall.

Anyone going Southside or to O'Connell St can forget about it.

No doubt it will inflate the already overpriced price of apartments and building land down in the docks

Joe Public has been shafted by the vested interests again.

Time Magazine

Don't think it's vested interests this time, I think it's just our stupid, stupid government. Ryanair tactics might work for your holidays, but not your daily commute.

But it should be noted, it only applies to additional services, your current commute will stay the same.

MarkoP11

No matter how many times it is said people don't get it

Any train that currently serves Connolly, Pearse, Bray etc from the Maynooth line will remain as current, only the extra trains will serve Spencer Dock. It should be noted that there will be extra Pearse Maynooth services as well in due course

The reason the station exists has got nothing to do with Spencer Dock its to do with a planning condition on a development over 9 miles away, of course there are thousands of people working down in the IFSC and will be working and living in Spencer Dock it will be interesting to see the demand

On the upside its under budget a running several months ahead of schedule and can't come soon enough to ease overcrowding on the Maynooth line

D'Peoples Voice

Victor wrote:

See: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

Victor, that map from iarnrod eireann can't be accurate, if you look closely it shows that Macken street bridge doesn't even line up with Guild Street.
There is NO WAY that DCC would allow a new bridge to be built costing millions of euro, which would lead to a staggered junction on the North quays and all the traffic congestion that two sets of traffic lights in close proximity causes.
Think about it!
They're having a laugh - yes?

mackerski

Murt10 wrote:

The station is miles away from Connolly, which is where people will have to walk to, to connect to a train for the Southside. It's as far from O'Connell St as Heuston is. It's only going to serve a small number of people living and working down in the North docks/North Wall.

This is a touch dramatic. The station will be 1km closer to O'Connell St. than Heuston is. Heuston is, in fact, almost twice as far away. Nobody in their right mind will walk to Connolly for an onward train. Those travelling, say, to Booterstown will most likely choose from one of the services that will serve Connolly. Anybody heading for a place like Merrion Square can proceed on foot across the new footbridge and be happy that they're still beating the bus.

Is it perfect? No, but it'll be open in a few months, so it's a bird in the hand. As a D15 resident, I'm a lot happier to have a boost in rail services now into Sherriff St. rather than having to wait 10 years for the full interconnector.

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Victor, that map from iarnrod eireann can't be accurate, if you look closely it shows that Macken street bridge doesn't even line up with Guild Street. There is NO WAY that DCC would allow a new bridge to be built costing millions of euro, which would lead to a staggered junction on the North quays and all the traffic congestion that two sets of traffic lights in close proximity causes. Think about it! They're having a laugh - yes?

The explanation I got was "someone from PR got over-enthusiastic".

Ham'nd'egger

Victor wrote:

The explanation I got was "someone from PR got over-enthusiastic".

My understanding of the bridge that it is intended to relieve the Georges Quay/Pearse Street area from port traffic and to access the new development both sides of the quays adjacent to the bridge for pedestrians, as well as accessing the City Quay/Sir John Rogerson Quay area to Connolly and Spencer Dock; and as such, it will not be laid as a staggered junction. It is also being built with the ability to cope with Luas traffic (It was one of the proposed routes at some stage in the recent past)

_Kaiser_

Murt10 wrote:

I went down to see Spencer Dock today and I'm shocked.

This must be one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen in my life. Most of the traffic that I see on the Sligo/Maynooth line comprises commuters going into offices and shops in town (both Northside and Southside) or students getting off at Drumcondra where the new train won't even stop.

The station is miles away from Connolly, which is where people will have to walk to, to connect to a train for the Southside. It's as far from O'Connell St as Heuston is. It's only going to serve a small number of people living and working down in the North docks/North Wall.

Anyone going Southside or to O'Connell St can forget about it.

No doubt it will inflate the already overpriced price of apartments and building land down in the docks

Joe Public has been shafted by the vested interests again.

The (wo)man has a point though...

Public Transport needs to not only be fast, clean and reliable, it needs to go where people want to go

This Docklands station is of no use to the majority of people who get off at Connolly, Tara St or Pearse Stations. Telling people that "it's not that far too walk" (perhaps with kids/shopping/bags etc) won't work, nor will asking them to pay more to switch to a LUAS (or shuttle bus) mid-way.

Result: people won't use it and the existing trains will stay as overcrowded as they are. :rolleyes:

Victor

Hamndegger wrote:

My understanding of the bridge that it is intended to relieve the Georges Quay/Pearse Street area from port traffic and to access the new development both sides of the quays adjacent to the bridge for pedestrians, as well as accessing the City Quay/Sir John Rogerson Quay area to Connolly and Spencer Dock;

And indeed to relieve traffic from the vicinity of O'Connell Bridge.

and as such, it will not be laid as a staggered junction.

Traffic from the bridge to Macken Street will need to make two 90 degree turns.

Sarsfield

Has the Macken St bridge been designed? Does is have to cross the river at right-angles?

This pdf document on the Dublin Docklands site suggests it's skewed to link Guild St & Macken St

KC61

Sarsfield wrote:

Has the Macken St bridge been designed? Does is have to cross the river at right-angles?

This pdf document on the Dublin Docklands site suggests it's skewed to link Guild St & Macken St

The Samuel Beckett Bridge, for that is what it shall be called, has most definitely been designed and is very striking in design. It does cross the river at right angles, and is to be completed by September 2008.

The attached link contains a picture of what the new bridge looks like.

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000092.html

The official Dublin City Council press release is contained at:

http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/press_releases/the_samuel_beckett_bridge_dublin_city_s_newest_bridge.asp

Tazz T

I'm currently living nr Pearse station but moving out to one of the new developments on the Maynooth line. It is not an insignificant walk from Docklands station to Pearse or Connolly.

With the huge amount of development going on along the Maynooth line, people will be forced onto the new route to Docklands and have to make the walk - they will have no choice. They should bite the bullet and upgrade connolly and fast track Spencer Dock.

Zoney

Tazz T wrote:

With the huge amount of development going on along the Maynooth line, people will be forced onto the new route to Docklands and have to make the walk - they will have no choice.

Tis better than not being able to get a train. According to people I know who live in the area, stations like Ashtown are overcrowded already in the mornings - and the developments there aren't even at their full extent yet! Apparently there will be tens of thousands living in a dense conglomeration of apartment blocks when it's done.

It's actually unusual enough to see some immediate temporary relief like Docklands station. Quite sensible in my view - sure the sooner Spencer Dock, Interconnector, etc. happen the better - but it's good to have extra service capacity in the meantime - even if it does mean a walk!

Tazz T

I'm moving to Ashtown myself. They knew these developments were coming. They weren't planned for. I took a run out before Xmas. There are thousands more apartments still under development, and a proposed 15 storey develpment in the Village next to Ashtown. Even with Docklands station, there's no way the line will be able to cope. They should've got Spencer Dock underway quicker.

Navan Junction

Zoney wrote:

It's actually unusual enough to see some immediate temporary relief like Docklands station.

It doesn't have anything to do with temporary relief or the apts in the Ashtown area - it's because of the Hansfield SDZ, pure and simple.

The planning conditions attached to that development stipulate that only a fraction of the homes can be developed until the Dunboyne link AND the Docklands station are complete.

If it wasn't for the good efforts of those in the Clonsilla/D15 area, it wouldn't be happening at the pace it is..

Thankfully it is happening - but the danger is that people will think that the Docklands station is an indication of intent and progress on the broader Transport 21 rail project list when progress there is not down to it's inclusion on the list at all.

Enigma365

The (Docklands) station is miles away from Connolly, which is where people will have to walk to, to connect to a train for the Southside.

In fairness, the docklands station is prob less than half a mile from connolly and is at most a 7-8 minute walk(altho a dodgy walk if you take the direct route along sheriff street).

Victor

Enigma365 wrote:

In fairness, the docklands station is prob less than half a mile from connolly and is at most a 7-8 minute walk(altho a dodgy walk if you take the direct route along sheriff street).

12 minutes - http://www.dto.ie/web2006/images/Connolly.pdf


To: Pearse Street Station Distance: 1.701 km Time: 20 minutes
To: Stephens Green - Green Line Distance: 2.532 km Time: 30 minutes
To: Heuston Station Distance: 3.809 km Time: 45 minutes