Thinking of buying a classic

CtrlSource

I've always been interested in cars, classics and vintage too. Lately I've been considering the pros and cons of classic car ownership.

Have been doing some research and it seems that a lot of people buy unrestored vehicles. I would prefer to spend a little more and at least get something that would be a "daily runner".

My budget would be modest (I'm thinking not more than 2 - 3k), so I'd be grateful for any feedback from those who have bought in the 'lower end' of the market.

Any tips on what NOT to buy would be appreciated too

dubtom

Welcome CTRL, had you anything specific in mind, ie, british, jap, yank.Although it's possible I suppose to pick up a 'daily driver' for a few grand the chances of it staying like that for long are slim unless you spend money on it.

spidersonmars

Hi,

Like whats said above, a description of what ypu want would help. I'm only new to the scene (as in less than a year) I am on my second car already and loving every minute of it. Go to the UK, I bought a Rover P6 3500B over there for a lot less money than simular Irish cars, and I beleive than mine is as good as, if not better than machines priced at least double here. The main rules, that I have learned are. 1) Buy something you like, and 2) Buy the best version you can afford. Saving money on the buying price usually costs you more in the long run. 3) Buy it while you can. A lot of my friends were going to but didn't in the end.....something else came up. You won't regret it!!

corktina

buy the very best you can afford needing the least amount of work.....preferably needing NO work....painting and welding are VERY hard to get done.......and expensive..go to the UK for a bargain...dont discount ebay (but check the sellers rating very carefully)

Redrocket

what do you mean by dont discount ebay??
i think maybe a "buying cars off ebay" thread could come in handy in the future. im always toying with the idea of buying something off ebay. the 3 times i wanted something that i could have afforded (and won the auction) but just didnt jump at, i am still regretting each one
but then again, i could have bought them all and be regretting it now
corktina: i know you buy a few things off ebay, like that cortina crusader, (no im not a stalker, just glued to the ford section) maybe you could share a few buying tips? is this hijacking or is this related to the ops original question?

ds20prefecture

Pros of classic ownership:
- You'll be driving a more exclusive car than almost anyone.
- You'll be driving a car from an era when people enjoyed driving cars, rather than sitting in a moving vehicle.
- You'll be paying less road tax than anyone
- You'll be paying less depreciation than most
- You'll be paying less VRT than anyone
- You'll be driving something comparatively simple to maintain.
- You won't need a masters in electronics to maintain it yourself.

Cons of classic ownership
- Rust
- Comparatively speaking, classics are high maintenance
- Classics are not as reliable as modern cars
- A 1.6 Diesel Citroen C4 has more power, torque, refinement and ecomony than my 2.0 petrol Citroen DS
- Classics tend not to handle as well as moderns, but they are ALWAYS more enjoyable to drive.
- Rust.
- It is almost essential to have a garage
- If you don't have a working knowledge of basic mechanics, you soon will have.
- In the event of an accident, the car will not be as safe as a modern car. Huge progress has been made over the last 30 years in passenger safety. People go on about how their old Volvo is built like a tank, but unfortunately the mushy bag of blood inside isn't. In an accident, you get a redecorated tank.
- Did I mention rust?

Myths about classic cars:
"They always break down" - I haven't haven't had a breakdown in 40,000 km. Use it daily and service it regularly and the car will reward you. Let it sit and it'll go to pot in no time.
"You get cheap/free insurance" - not if you use it daily. I'm paying €620 fully comp with a 10,000 mile limit.
"You can't get parts" - the web is your friend. I buy most of my parts from Holland and they arrive to my door within 3 days.
"MGs handle well" - no, they don't.

My advice is to choose a marque or model you fancy and research the bejaysus out of it. Educate yourself on the weak and strong points. Drive one or two to see if you'll like it. Join marque specific clubs and internet forums to meet experts who will help you buy a good car.

Personally, I'd look for a car that is as original as possible while being as rust free as possible. Mechanicals and electrics are comparatively cheap to repair. Bodywork or chassic repairs can be bodged and degrade at an alarming rate.

Regarding choice, I can recommend Citroen ownership. I have a DS and a GS. Both are immensely satisfying to own and reward on many levels. What attracts me to the marque is the ingenuity, innovativeness and beauty of the designs. More original thought went into the design of the cooling fan of a DS than an entire MGB. And the cooling fan is probably the most prosaic innovation in the car. Or the GS: for the price of an escort you got all round disc brakes, hydropneumatic self levelling suspension, the most aerodynamic car of it's day (and for a decade later), a light and efficient air cooled boxer engine and a semi automatic gearbox. All this in 1970.

Anyway, go with what you yourself like, not what others want you to like.

RoundyMooney

^

Post of the month. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Redrocket

ds20, i miss your posts,
im currently trying to justify buying a classic, and thats some pretty good info

Dades

DS, I think you forgot to mention rust.

CtrlSource, if you don't have a garage your classic motor will probably rust away on you. But if you're only looking to spend 2-3K, you'll have saved that in tax/ins by the time you sell it for €10 on eBay in 5 years.

Eric318

more reasons to buy a classic:

- driving it will never be dull: either you will have the nicest car on the road, or you will have the nicest broken down car by the side of the road;
- when you break down, you will quickly make new friends who will volunteer to help you (if only the AA van man);
- you will have something else to dream about when you fall asleep instead of breasts;
- teenage girls will finally look at you, just dont tell your wife;
- 10 year old boys will envy you;
- you will often have gunk under your fingers nails;
- complete strangers will come and talk to you in the street;
- you will know all there is to know about very interesting conversation topics such as unleaded fuel, contact breaker points, vinyl, Dot4 brake fluid;
- has anybody mentioned rust?

Oh, just do it!


you will always

mustang68

Eric318 wrote:

- you will often have gunk under your fingers nails;
- complete strangers will come and talk to you in the street;

Great points, having "mens hands" after working on the car does look cool :cool:
Its nice to see how good strangers are, that people are in general good

andyj22

Eric318 wrote:

more reasons to buy a classic:

- driving it will never be dull: either you will have the nicest car on the road, or you will have the nicest broken down car by the side of the road;
- when you break down, you will quickly make new friends who will volunteer to help you (if only the AA van man);
- you will have something else to dream about when you fall asleep instead of breasts;
- teenage girls will finally look at you, just dont tell your wife;
- 10 year old boys will envy you;
- you will often have gunk under your fingers nails;
- complete strangers will come and talk to you in the street;
- you will know all there is to know about very interesting conversation topics such as unleaded fuel, contact breaker points, vinyl, Dot4 brake fluid;
- has anybody mentioned rust?

Oh, just do it!


you will always

Just Read This and its all so so true love it excellent Thread:o

Adam

CtrlSource

Thanks to all for the replies!

I'm thinking European and preferably right hand drive. Something mechanically quite straightforward. Having said that, I'm also looking for an automatic... so that rules out a lot of models!

I do have access to a garage (at the moment), but rust would still be a major concern. I've known people who've had their hearts broken by their endlessly rusting classics!

ds20prefecture, thanks a lot for your comprehensive and helpful post

Itsfixed

A decent BMW 2002 (autos can be a bit cheaper) can be gotten for this budget - well built, reliable, great parts supply, simple to fix, great fun to drive. I know this cos i own one and its my only car. I don't have a garage either but i try to polish it at least once every two months and am planning a waxoyl at some stage.

There's a few 2002 autos knocking on Ebay UK's classics section atm.

Blue850

You'd get a great Triumph 2000/2500 automatic for 3k, lovely smooth 6 cylinder engine is well suited to automatic.

NEVCC

Nice Rover P5B coupe, has the 3.5 V8 and looks the muts nuts.


One caveat with the Rover, know what your looking at. they are rot boxes and if you don’t know what to look for you could be in for a world of pain.

dubtom

Think about a Ford, Granada,Cortina or Capri can all be got for reasonable money and still are fairly easy to get parts for in the UK I believe.I personally like the mk1 Granada, the coupe being a classy vechical imo.

Eric318

mustang68 wrote:

Its nice to see how good strangers are, that people are in general good

This is so true. One of the main learnings from 25 years of classic car ownership.

One exception though: when selling or buying it is everyone minds their own arse!

cormac_byrne

If you're considering a particular model car, get one that's well supported.

i.e. are there parts suppliers who specialise in that model?,
are there clubs on the internet dedicated to that car?,
is there a local club for that model?,
or at least a club that have members with that model?

who do the club members use for servicing / repairs etc...?
what specifically would they be looking out for if they had to source a replacement car?

Find out the most common problems that model suffers from.
Is there information easily available on how to fix those problems and what cost?

At the bottom end of the market I would say go for the simplest most basic car that is solid. The less features / gadgets it has, the less there is to go wrong and the cheaper to fix when it does.

Is it an easy car to work on? How tricky is it to change the clutch for example. i.e. easier if you're doing it yourself and cheaper if paying someone else. How much will the clutch cost,

Positive answers to the above mean that you won't be totally on your own when something goes wrong.

Do your research and if possible view and drive a car here before venturing onto ebay or autotrader and buying one in the UK

Finally if you don't have another day to day car, then you need at least two classics.

ds20prefecture

CtrlSource wrote:

I'm thinking European and preferably right hand drive. Something mechanically quite straightforward. Having said that, I'm also looking for an automatic... so that rules out a lot of models!

I do have access to a garage (at the moment), but rust would still be a major concern. I've known people who've had their hearts broken by their endlessly rusting classics!

ds20prefecture, thanks a lot for your comprehensive and helpful post

You're very welcome. If you're thinking European, automatic and €3000, would you consider a Citroen GS/GSA with Citromatic? This is a semi-auto (gearlever but no clutch pedal). Very cool car, and a lot of fun. If you want a closer look at one drop me a PM and i'll give you a look at mine. It's not semi-auto, but it's a pretty good example. It cost me €750.

One thing I would say is that autos of 30 years + are very crude compared to their modern equivalents. You lose a lot of power and economy through nasty slushmatics.

To put the rust thing in perspective - I have no garage and have used my DS daily for the last 4 years. DSs are notorious for their vulnerability to rot, and mine has not deteriorated noticably in those 4 years. The paint has got a little duller, but nothing a good polish won't sort out. Regular rust proofing with waxoil or similar, daily use and nightly garaging will keep your car more or less rust free. Put it this way - it lasted 30 years already. Another thing to consider is that we don't salt our roads here so cars don't deteriorate at the same rate as, say, the UK.

The RHD thing will limit you a little in your search, particulary as you'll be looking in the UK where things can be very hit-and-miss. My DS is LHD and after a couple of days you don't notice the difference at all.

Your budget is quite low and puts you into dangerous territory for your first classic. Classic value is determined by their desirability and condition, not their original market price. For example a good Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV will sell now for much more than when new. So €3000 you're either sacrificing desirability or general condition. Unless you go for slightly more obscure choices like the GS, or say an NSU 1100. Please don't be tempted by old cars masquerading as classics - a Morris Marina was a pile of sh1te when it was new and they don't improve with age.

Lastly, I know of a very straight RHD Citroen CX Prestige automatic with some accident damage. I would say €3500 might buy it, and it probably needs €1000-€1500 to make it perfect. I don't think this is a perfect option for a first time buyer, but it is a lot of car for small money if you had the taste of it.

bo-bo

forgive me if this has been covered above as I havent read all of the post

heres my 2 cents worh anyway

I was just like yourself until a few months ago. I always had japanese performance motors and had no experience of classic cars.

I half decided I wanted one, did a bit of research, spoke to a few people in the know, bought a few magazines etc and before long I was off up to by my first classic - a capri

best decision ive made so far. for a very modest sum i bought a car in good (presentable) condition and mechanically spot on. most importantly it makes me smile every time i drive it - i love it.

as for reliability - its matched any of the hondas ive owned so far (now thats a statement)

yes, it does need work done and yes it hasnt got any mod cons but thats partly why i bought it

its currently in for a restoration as i like my cars to be mint (even though it didnt really need it). ive sourced all the new panels and parts myself and ive learned a hughe amount by doing that alone.

so my advice to you is to go for it. get the best example you can afford having done some research. set yourself a realistic budget (allow for some deviation), dont be afraid to get stuck into some of the non skilled work yourself and dont be afraid to ask people questioins.

best of luck

CtrlSource

Saw a very nice Triumph Stag on ebay today - way out of my price range though. Tempting to just up my budget (V8, mmmm *drools*) but I need to be realistic about it. Alas, buying a classic is not currently #1 on my list of priorities :rolleyes:

The Citroen DS would be a very cool car to own, however I would imagine that one in good nick would be expensive.

Thanks again to all the interesting responders - you've certainly given me plenty to think about!