Watching Leinster and deeply dissapointed so far

Inquitus · 29-10-2006 1:52pm #1

12-10 to Edinburgh on the stroke of half-time.

Leinster scored a breakaway turn over try and aside from that have looked very mediocre. Scrum giving away alot of Penos and Frees, Lineout failing to secure their own ball. Whenever they do have ball however they still look dangerous and you get the feeling they can score from just about anywhere.

First 10 mins of the second half with only 14 men and it's not looking good.

They have the skill out wide to win this one even with poor possession, but they are looking a long way from potential HC Winners at the moment.

The tight 5 are poor, but the backrow are winning this one and turning over the ball in some vital situations. Alot of ruck and maul time penalties being given away tho and that is what has put the Scots in the lead, Blaney in particular has been caught playing it on the flor and coming in fromt he side on numerous occassions, a bit more discipline is really needed imo.

Come on Leinster......

RuggieBear · 29-10-2006 2:56pm

that was ****e:(

Jim10000 · 29-10-2006 3:00pm

didn't get to see it, what was the result?

Jim10000 · 29-10-2006 3:04pm

saw it.

Enright · 29-10-2006 3:17pm

edin 25 leinster 24
leinster were very poor

Teg Veece · 29-10-2006 5:52pm

Very boring match. Neither side seemed capable of controlling the game and it just all seemed very dead. Reminded me of a poor ML match at times.
The only consolation Leinster can take from the weekend is that Gloucester are all but out of the competition and will lessen the English side's interest in the Leinster match next year.

Devrozex · 29-10-2006 6:37pm

Yeah, Leinster's disapline let them down badly today. Everytime they got some momentum going, they gave away a silly penalty. And too much back chat too. Still, thought they were going to nick it in the end, playing in about 2nd gear.:(

Teg Veece · 29-10-2006 6:56pm

Devrozex wrote:

Yeah, Leinster's disapline let them down badly today. Everytime they got some momentum going, they gave away a silly penalty. And too much back chat too. Still, thought they were going to nick it in the end, playing in about 2nd gear.:(

They looked completely leaderless at times. Especially at the end when what they needed to do was to retain possession, build up the phases and work their way into the opposition's half rather than throw loose passes and make costly mistakes.

zAbbo · 29-10-2006 7:06pm

The kick up the hole they need, but how many kicks is that this season.

Poor discipline, backchat, lack of leadership, very poor.

But hopefully these things will be built on, and with Gloucester more or less out, we'll see how this one pans out.

Nothing short of a win against Agen is needed on Dec9th

Orizio · 29-10-2006 10:57pm

The match was a perfect example why they won't win the Heineken Cup this year.Edinburgh didn't win the game;Leinster lost it,in fact they handed it to Edinburgh on a silver platter.

They were completely ill-disciplined(how many stupid penalties did they give away?)and wasteful(large bouts of possessin and plenty of clean breaks which they rarely coverted),and most importantly have failed to beat a very mediocre team despite ample chances to put them away.

Trojan · 29-10-2006 11:43pm

They should have lost it by far more. They remind me of the saying "a great team is one that wins even though they play badly". Leinster lost even though they played average.

There is the makings of a great team underneath somewhere, but they need to sort out leadership (talking back to the f#cking ref, taking 3 pts before 1/2 time - basics!!) and get into more of a "grind out the result" mode. Too much fancy stuff.

daveirl · 30-10-2006 3:35pm

This post has been deleted.

Diamondmaker · 30-10-2006 4:01pm

Leinster played poorly and just lost. But they were only a hair away from winning, away, with a bonus point! if one or 2 moves of many had just come off it would have been a whole other story. Ed also have beaten us plenty of times recently so no huge surprise to lose the away game here, most of the british press predicted this. ( I was in UK all w/e)
They will still progress out of this group I am sure and as Leinster have the capability of beating ANY other team out there on a day when everything clicks you never know how far they will go.:cool: However they just as easily lose to any team on a bad day either:mad:
The Agen match is what matters now this year and if Glaws scalp Ed on the same day at home it will be a 2 horse race......then Likely coming down to BonusPts and and the away match to Agen...........who at 200:1 long shots are surprising so far but it could well be a "spell" on their behalf they are mid Top 14, losing 6/11 and always on the road!
I still back leinster to come through and this blip shall help their cause.

Diamondmaker · 30-10-2006 4:04pm

Inquitus wrote:

Blaney in particular has been caught playing it on the flor and coming in fromt he side on numerous occassions, a bit more discipline is really needed imo.

Come on Leinster......

Strange we score another try ( 3 straight I think now right?Mun,Glaw,Ed ) while a man is in the bin. Leinster seem more dangerous when with 14 men.!

Chucky the tree · 30-10-2006 9:35pm

Infairness though Diamond, one the tries was the worst forward pass i have ever seen in any rugby match. Absolutly shocking decision to let it go.

I was amazed none of the Edinburugh players seemed to notice at the time aswell, how did they all miss it?

Teg Veece · 31-10-2006 8:41am

Diamondmaker wrote:

Leinster have the capability of beating ANY other team out there on a day when everything clicks you never know how far they will go.

I'm hearing this cliché more and more these days. Basically, it means that the team is in the top 90% of participants!

The Agen/Leinster fixtures will be the important ones alright. Hope the pack is up to the job. Also, they need a proper leader. At the moment its like a group of individuals who occasionally pull in the same direction but often seem rudderless.

bucks73 · 31-10-2006 10:59am

A few people seem to think Leinster are leaderless and that might have to be looked at. The quickly taken penalty just before half time was a stupid decision on O'Driscolls part. Handy 3 points for the taking and only lost by 1.

thebaz · 31-10-2006 11:52am

is it just me, but recently i find games against Scottish teams, national and provincial -- plain boring - they always seam to play a negative spoiling game , the opposite to Champagne rugby , in near empty stadiums with no atmosphere

RuggieBear · 31-10-2006 12:03pm

thebaz wrote:

is it just me, but recently i find games against Scottish teams, national and provincial -- plain boring - they always seam to play a negative spoiling game , the opposite to Champagne rugby , in near empty stadiums with no atmosphere

Joel Jutge gave the impression it was Leinster doing all the spoiling...:mad:

mikedragon32 · 31-10-2006 12:22pm

Am I the only one who thinks Blaney is afraid to ruck or maul, particularly when we're defending?

He always seems to be off to the side, and not in a good "pillar/post" kind of way either.

Gleeson had another good game, but it's hard to pick out anyone else as having a memorable performace. Dempsey wasn't great and d'Arcy always seemed to hold onto the ball for that little bit too long.

Laslo · 31-10-2006 7:23pm

Shameful display considering the hype but Leinster aren't the great team they're made out to be. Offloading to late, poor passing... these are the hallmarks of a team that people expect to much from who have the occasional flash of brilliance. At the end of the day, Leinster are... mediocre.

zAbbo · 31-10-2006 8:39pm

Leinster are by no means mediocre, they're just not living up to their reputation consistently.

Regarding the possible 3 points before half time, they ran it, and should have had a try but for poor finishing at the line.

I'll remain optimistic.

Inquitus · 31-10-2006 9:06pm

Leinster are mediocre.....full stop.....any team with such a poor tight 5 is going to struggle.......yes they can beat any team on their day, but not everyday will be......and as such in this current incarnation they cannot win the Heiny.....imo.

Feel free to prove me wrong!

Diamondmaker · 01-11-2006 11:27am

Leinster last season finished 2nd in ML and only lost the HCup SF to the unstoppable at the time, eventual winners.
This season will deliver similar results and hopefully a bit better or maybe not but not too far off.
Im saying nothing other than they cannot possibly be called mediocre!

Inquitus · 01-11-2006 11:40am

Leinster now have to win in Glaws and Agen, which is possible, but will be tough.

Agen were probably not counting on making a real drive for the HC this season but after their 2nd String beat Glaws with a bonus, surely now they must take it very seriously.

One more defeat and it could be curtains however, having that monkey on your back has spurred both Munster and Leinster on in the past, lets hope it will again.

But I stand by my assertion that Leinster cannot win the HC with this XV. Their best chance was the Perpignan year when they had the Mullet, Reggie and co at their prime, not now with Will Green and fecking Blaney.

Diamondmaker · 01-11-2006 12:05pm

cannot / will not win ERC Cup and Mediocre.........world of difference!
I agree they will not win Cup and yes in hind sight that SF in lansdowne where they limped to defeat was a golden op missed.

But in no way are they mediocre what a daft staement.

Inquitus · 01-11-2006 12:15pm

Does fail to get out of group = mediocre?

And there is a good likelyhood that will happen. so maybe they really are mediocre this year?

Hippo · 01-11-2006 12:27pm

You really can't say mediocre; flawed, sometimes rudderless, frequently frustrating, but more line breaks than you can shake a stick at. We all know what mediocre teams look like and this ain't one. Doesn't mean they'll win anything though, especially with the bizarre decision-making that seems to take place on the field.

In passing, I noticed Owen Finnegan deliberately stamping heavily on an Edinburgh ankle on his way into a ruck shortly after he came on. I remember this happening to ROG against one of the welsh teams a couple of years ago and being very unimpressed, and I'm not happy to see a Leinster player at it.

bugler · 01-11-2006 1:50pm

He has been cited for it, and can probably look forward to a nice rest.

Hippo · 01-11-2006 2:00pm

Excellent, I hope you're right about the rest

Amazotheamazing · 01-11-2006 4:26pm

I don't think Leinster are mediocre, they're a collection of good players but not a good team.

[Jackass] · 01-11-2006 4:43pm

I couldn't understand Leinsters tactics for the life of me!!

Why were we kicking away so much possesion? It seemed like the tactic was to kick infield all the time, because I find it hard to believe any team could miss touch that many times...even when it would be correct to play for teretory they seemed to send it down the throat of the full-back or wings.

Is this a sign of the absolute lack of confidence in the line-out? Because Leinster would always come off second best in these exchanges as the end result was reguarly either a line-out back where they started kicking from or worse.

Most notably the Edinb. try and penalty in the second half were both conceded off a leinster line-out..and ultimatly cost us the game. Why can't this be sorted??

Even at the end, when Leinster went 1 point down they were kicking away possesion infield rather than actually running the ball and setting up a platform for a drop goal...and when they did get into the 22 there was no sign of going for a drop goal and eventually lost it to a knock on iirc.

When we were 2 up also we didn't keep it tight like we should have, instead kicking infield and trying to run the ball off return kicks or send them back again if there wasn't the space.

The biggest vote of no confidence I have ever seen a team give their pack. Scrum and line-out need to be sorted asap as they cost us that game and will cost us a lot more if they can't get it right! And Blaney needs to get a barn door and practice trying to hit it with a ball.

Very poor Leinster and cosistency is needed iuf we are going to challange this year. It always amazes me that we can play so well one week and so poor the next, it just dosen't make any sense....

Eoin · 02-11-2006 5:18pm

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I'm fairly sure that it was Mal O'Kelly; I seem to remember him catching the kick off really well, but then being tackled and throwing the ball away - possibly because he was a few yards ahead of his support and didn't want to get penalised for holding on. It seemed like a really reckless pass at the time though.

pred racer · 02-11-2006 8:27pm

zabbo wrote:

The kick up the hole they need, but how many kicks is that this season.

Poor discipline, backchat, lack of leadership, very poor.

But hopefully these things will be built on, and with Gloucester more or less out, we'll see how this one pans out.

Nothing short of a win against Agen is needed on Dec9th

my sentiments exactly!!!

How can professional athletes go out and play like they obviously couldnt give a sh1t.

Erin Go Brath · 02-11-2006 11:56pm

Leinster are certainly one of the better teams in the Heineken Cup imo, and they play one of the most exciting brands of rugby. Thought they would win it last year after the marvellous win over Toulouse in the QF.

The problem just seems to be taking the wrong options sometimes. Not taking the easy 3 points on offer is a perfect example. Munster would grap the points 9 times out of 10 in a tight game, and that is the difference. Munster are just more battle hardened. Leinster just need to be more streetwise and sensible in the tight games this year if they want to win the Heine cup. They have the talent to go all the way no doubt about it.

Normal service will be resumed against Agen, and Leinster will be back on track!!!

Inquitus · 03-11-2006 10:27am

They don't have what it takes to win the HC this year imo.

The Tight 5, Scrum and Lineout are just not up to it at the moment. They were a much better outfit a couple of years ago when Reggie and the Mullet were at their prime.

Their brand of rugby is good enough to beat anyone on their day, but it won't always be their day.

Blaney is not up to it
Will Green is not up to it
McCormack is not up to it

That is the root cause of all their woes.

The 2nd row is quality, Back row Superb, but that front row is useless.

Diamondmaker · 03-11-2006 1:09pm

ad thing is that Blaney has been there all the time and in the mean while Jackman and Vermass were brought in and now we are back using Blaney, some smarter signing in this area was required.

Scary that we may also be on a 4th choice scrum half...we were blessed to find more than competent cover down at no. 3 but what is Adams? ( is it ) gonna be like.

Erin Go Brath · 03-11-2006 4:38pm

I agree that leinsters front row is weak compared to other big teams in this tournament. Is that enough to stop them from potentially winning this competition though??

When you have the quality, and options that they have out wide, I don't think so. If Leinster can just about break even in the lineouts, and get somewhere around 45% possession in a game they stand a great chance simply because of the talent in their back line. Also a lot depends on Contepomi, who can be the worlds best on one day, and a disaster on another.

Any team that makes it out of the group stage has a chance in this tournament. Once the knockout stages come about, home advantage, luck, and many other factors come into play.

I do think they need to improve considerably on their performance against Edinburgh to have any chance though. Munster are probably Irelands best hope again this year, but we'll have to wait and see, I wouldn't rule out Leinster just yet.

Peter B · 03-11-2006 7:18pm

The problem with Leinster in my opinion is they try play to their strengths which of course every team should do. However this does not mean they should omit their forward pack.

As Stuart Barnes said when talking about Wales against Aus, they need the forwards to spearhead the opposition with some pick and drives just to suck in the opposition then give it out to the backs. Then the backs have some more space in which to do their magic.

Against Edinburgh and Gloucester the ball was going out the backs on the first phase, with props, second rows lining out in the back line. If the ball goes to the backs they need pace and space. No point having MOK killing momentum.

This was further emphasised by their quick taps for penalties. As a coach you can practice lineouts but it is difficult to practice for scrappy play without structure.

Leinster have a reasonable forward pack so don't waste it. At least with possession you can tire out defenders. If they are doing all the defending with their lack of possession they will be knackered by the last 20.

Also with their overuse of their backs it is easier to control by opposition. Teams use blitz defence, like Italy did vs Ireland last year and Munster did in the semi in May. It is easy enough to cut down good players and not give them enough time to build up pace and even sometime make the tackle behind the gain line.

Unless Leinster start using their forwards I cannot see them even making it out of the group.

They need to stop the talk back to the ref, take points on offer (especially in close games) and create some structure in their games plan. This scrappy (what some people call champagne rugby) will not beat any good opposition as good teams know how to deal with it (Like Munster did in May).

Watching Leinster and deeply dissapointed so far

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