how should this have been played?

Gholimoli

this is a cash hand from the Regency.
it was officially a 1/2 NL game but it didnt play anything like 1/2 and played more like 2/5 4/8 as there was straddles on every hand.
the game is 4 handed .
two players on the table are there with huge stacks and are huge gambloors.

they call any bet with any two pre-flop and will make any bet/raise/reraise with pretty much anything and these two infact are the reason why mys self and another person (hlafbaked) are on this table.
i cant say enough how loos these players are and even though one of them is decent the other one really sukcs so he is loos and bad.they both pay for draws and dont fold draws at all .

the hand:
me 450
villain 1: 2/3K
villain 2: 2/3K

its a straddle bet to me for 8 and i look down and see QQ.

i make it 30 and both villains call.

flop(90):
4d 6d 8c
i think there was one check to me and i bet out 50.
i get called by villain 1 and villain two makes it 80.

whats the plan for the hand?



4 6

Hectorjelly

Probably fold
raise more preflop

Ste05

Gholimoli wrote:

flop(90):
4d 6d 8c
i think there was one check to me and i bet out 50.
i get called by villain 1 and villain two makes it 80.

Raises 30?? I presume he makes it 130??

If so I just push... if my maths is correct there's 320 in the pot we have about 380 left, so I push and hope to god no diamond, 5 or 7 falls and that neither of them has 2 pair, a set or a straight, I can't really see any other line except folding, which based on your descriptions, obviously isn't an option, is it???.... Gamboool....

RoundTower

I'm going broke here, raise more preflop if you think it will be called (sounds like you do), also bet more on flop 75 or so.

Gholimoli

Hectorjelly wrote:

Probably fold
raise more preflop

why am i folding this?
also how much more should i raise preflop?
i mean im making it 30 and the game is 4 handed ,how much should i make it.

also i think i bet 40 on the flop and not 50 as the reraise was 80 which was double my bet.

in terms of betting the flop,should be potting it on the flop given the stacks or half pot is fine?

cardshark202

Against these players, make it more like 50 preflop and get it all in on this flop.

Gholimoli

cardshark202 wrote:

Against these players, make it more like 50 preflop and get it all in on this flop.

from 8 to 50 ,do you not think i may be loosing a bit of action here?

cardshark202

Gholimoli wrote:

from 8 to 50 ,do you not think i may be loosing a bit of action here?

Gholimoli wrote:

they call any bet with any two pre-flop and will make any bet/raise/reraise with pretty much anything

.

Gholimoli

cardshark202 wrote:

.

fair enough and looking back i think they would have called the 50 bet as well.

anyway i made the balls of the hand.
when the action got back back to me it was either fold or go broke here.
i dont think folding against these two on that bored is correct as im generally ahead of their range.
the other option is to push here which is what i should have done but i didnt.

i made it 220 leaving my self with antother 200 behind.

action goes back to villain one who puts me all in and villain two calls.
its 200 to me to win nearly 1400 so i call.

villain one has 66 ,villain two has 44 and set of 6s win.

apart from folding to the reraise i dont think i could avoid going broke here.

HJ suggested folding but i like to here why he suggested the fold given the type of players im playing and the texture of the bored?

Hectorjelly

Gholimoli wrote:

from 8 to 50 ,do you not think i may be loosing a bit of action here?

Look at the stack sizes, you basically made it the most unprofitable & of your stack possible; whilst telegraphing the strength of your hand

I would fold on the flop because with a flat call and a raise one of them should be able to beat a weak overpair

Its hard to tell without being there, but I most opponents simply are not stupid to pay you off with any hand that you have crushed, if you get all in they will either have you badly beaten or it will be close to a coin flip.

You are much better off folding the best hand from time to time than going broke every time you have an overpair against bad players.


Looking back it really depends on quite how loose and stupid they are playing, if the guy who flat calls has a draw most of the time and the other guy is so bad that he will consider 99 or A8 the nuts then pushing is ok

Hectorjelly

Gholimoli wrote:

HJ suggested folding but i like to here why he suggested the fold given the type of players im playing and the texture of the bored?

You reraised preflop and then with deep stacks get a lot of action on a low coordinated board by 2 players, a hand like top pair is very unlikely.

Gholimoli

Hectorjelly wrote:

Look at the stack sizes, you basically made it the most unprofitable & of your stack possible; whilst telegraphing the strength of your hand

I would fold on the flop because with a flat call and a raise one of them should be able to beat a weak overpair

Its hard to tell without being there, but I most opponents simply are not stupid to pay you off with any hand that you have crushed, if you get all in they will either have you badly beaten or it will be close to a coin flip.

You are much better off folding the best hand from time to time than going broke every time you have an overpair against bad players.


Looking back it really depends on quite how loose and stupid they are playing, if the guy who flat calls has a draw most of the time and the other guy is so bad that he will consider 99 or A8 the nuts then pushing is ok

agreed.

the 99 and A8 would easily have been played the same by them.

on another hand,i limp with 78 and there is a small raise and 3 of us see the flop of 456 with two clubs.

he bets and i raise big and he calls.
turn is a 3 of clubs and he check calls me all in with 22.
he called a huge reraise with 22 on 456 two club bored and called a half pot bet lower str.this wasnt his worse play either he was a very strange type of stupid player.

NickyOD

The flop raise is such a suspicious size. It's definitely a fold. The way the scandies play they're raise more with top pair or a draw there. I played a similar hand with QQ against an english player who smooth called me on a 3-6-7 flop and then checked when a 7 came on the turn. He went all in and I called with my QQ. He had 55.

I don't thing anyone would make that dodgy €80 flop raise with a hand you beat. you would very rarely see A-8 here.

Gholimoli

Hectorjelly wrote:

You reraised preflop and then with deep stacks get a lot of action on a low coordinated board by 2 players, a hand like top pair is very unlikely.

its not unlikely for them.
one hand there was 250 in the pot and one of them was playing blind and said he was playing blind and was raising/calling blind and the other dude new it.
the guy who was playing blind won the hand when he looked at the end on the river and made a big bet.

ianmc38

This was a tough hand. I'd just cashed out of the game cos i had taken a healthy profit and I was beginning to get tired, before I told the 2 lads to move over and get onto the table.

I think the flop action was Gholi checks, villain 1 bets 40, villain 2 minraises and Gholi puts 225 or some similar amount in.

The guys in the hand were horrific and had huge tanks (one had a huge wad of 500 notes). When I was playing with them, they were regularly straddling to 25 50 and 100. One guy was on major tilt as well as he'd dropped a bout 5k in the game, so he was making huge all-in bluffs with air. I called his turn check raise all-in on a T27J board with 44 and he had 36o, though I doubled him up when I made a similar call shortly after.

Because of the villains in the hand I thought calling was ok as they were playing bottom pair, gutshot straight draws and absolute air all night, though the bet sizing was really different. I think if Gholi had seen some of the betting earlier he'd have realised that they wern't bluffing this time.

HalfBaked the donk made a similar call later on with simialr results in a big pot.

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

This was a tough hand. I'd just cashed out of the game cos i had taken a healthy profit and I was beginning to get tired, before I told the 2 lads to move over and get onto the table.

I think the flop action was Gholi checks, villain 1 bets 40, villain 2 minraises and Gholi puts 225 or some similar amount in.

The guys in the hand were horrific and had huge tanks (one had a huge wad of 500 notes). When I was playing with them, they were regularly straddling to 25 50 and 100. One guy was on major tilt as well as he'd dropped a bout 5k in the game, so he was making huge all-in bluffs with air. I called his turn check raise all-in on a T27J board with 44 and he had 36o, though I doubled him up when I made a similar call shortly after.

Because of the villains in the hand I thought calling was ok as they were playing bottom pair, gutshot straight draws and absolute air all night, though the bet sizing was really different. I think if Gholi had seen some of the betting earlier he'd have realised that they wern't bluffing this time.

HalfBaked the donk made a similar call later on with simialr results in a big pot.

Ian,
the action was checked to me on the flop and i was deffo the first one to put a bet in there and then got check/raised by the younger fallow.
im not sure whether both checked it to me or just one of them though.
it was a very interesting table to say the least...