[Article] 'Speeding' Ahern in row over safety on the roads

Seth Brundle

from http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1714508&issue_id=14825

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]FG claim incident a bad example amid fears of weekend carnage

TAOISEACH Bertie Ahern was last night embroiled in potentially damaging allegations that his official car was speeding - just minutes after he had appealed for drivers to slow down.


The embarrassing row comes at the end of an horrific week of carnage on the roads in which five young people died in one incident in Co Monaghan alone. And last night a nine-year-old boy became the latest victim.
The child, named locally as Myles McDonagh, was playing with friends by the roadside at Ballinamona, Menlough near Ballinasloe, Co Galway shortly after 4pm. According to reports, he was struck by a passing car after straying onto the road.


The Government was highly criticised this week for failing to halt the carnage on our roads.


Significantly last night, neither Mr Ahern, his officials nor gardai denied the claim that the car he was being driven in was travelling above the legal limit.


Fine Gael threw its weight behind the accusations that his state car was going faster than the prevailing speed limit.


Mr Ahern was accused of failing to set a proper example for young people by allowing his garda-driven car to speed.


He has been chauffeur driven for nearly 20 years, since he became Minister for Labour in 1987. It is not the first time Mr Ahern's car was at the centre of speeding allegations. During the last general election, his car was reported to be clocked doing 95mph - well above the speed limit. On that occasion, he brushed off the accusations in a style quite similar to yesterday.


The Taoiseach's schedule in Wexford yesterday showed the time pressures involved when he does a county visit. Over seven-and-a-half hours, from 10:30 am to 6pm, he was scheduled to attend 22 different engagements at locations right across the county - that's a public appointment every 20 minutes.


After making a personal appeal to motorists to drive safely over the bank holiday weekend, Mr Ahern faced questions about the alleged speeding of his own Mercedes car.


He Ahern said his entourage wasn't "going that fast".
"We always try to abide by the laws while we are driving around the country. The guards are with us and I'm always under the scrutiny of the local guards because they bring us around," he said.


The Taoiseach was travelling on the main Galway to Dublin road, the N6, from Moate to Kinnegad, immediately after his road safety appeal.
His cavalcade included a Garda four-wheel drive vehicle, the Mercedes in which he was being driven and another two cars. The incident occurred at 4:15pm on Thursday and the main road was busy at the time.


Coming out of Moate, at the bottom of a long climb, the group of vehicles 'flew by' other cars that were on the speed limit of 100kmph and 'disappeared quickly over the hill' according to reports.
Mr Ahern had earlier called for drivers to "go a bit slower and give a bit more time".


The Taoiseach's officials avoided questions about the incident and passed it on to the gardai. His staff said Mr Ahern is usually studying papers when he is being driven.


Fine Gael road safety spokesman Shane McEntee said the Taoiseach needed to practice what he preached. "It is crucial that every bit of example that's out there can be given. And the idea of one person being able to take advantage of the law to get from A to B for political reasons or for announcements shouldn't be accepted," he said.


"He should be clearly asked the question: is it alright for him to travel in a cavalcade at a certain speed while the rest of us have to obey the law?" he added.
Fionnan Sheahan

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Heinrich

All this guy does is waffle. Talk is cheap and Fianna Fail are the hypermarkets of cheap talk!

The mess on the roads will not be sorted by waffling.

wyndham

Have journalists nothing better to do than write this sh1te? "embarrassing row"? He couldn't really give a flying fck at this stage i'd say. It will probably push him up another couple of percentage points in the polls.

"Fine Gael threw it's weight behind the allegations"
Ha. Enda Kenny has the weight of a pube.

Lennoxschips

yeah, the arrogance with which he brushes these accusations off is astounding.

people who vote for him deserve what they get, to be honest

cast_iron

I don't see the big problem.

So because people see a Garda drive over the limit in the line of his duty - this sets a bad example??
I don't think so.

Somehow, i think the speeders that cause the trouble couldn't give a toss what Bertie's driver does.

Lennoxschips

hold on, this isn't a garda chasing a criminal or rushing to the scene of a crime, he's chauffeuring bertie around.

Somehow, i think the speeders that cause the trouble couldn't give a toss what Bertie's driver does.

well it certainly shows that the leader of the government couldn't give a toss either

Capt'n Midnight

It's not the first time Bertie has been caught at 95mph. And he wasn't sorry them either. But another point, if he flouts laws whose purpose he agrees is to save lives, would he flout other laws with lower stakes ?

http://archives.tcm.ie/westernpeople/2003/01/29/story11477.asp

A pity Minister for State Noel Treacy doesn’t accept the wisdom of the last paragraph. During the week it emerged that his driver had been convicted of travelling at 95 miles per hour in a 60 mile zone. The minister went on radio and informed the nation that he worked 120 hours a week, operated on “a very, very tight schedule” and that while he regretted the incident, he had a good driver, a roadworthy car, it was on a good road and it was a beautiful day. So that’s all right then.
If you have a good car, a good driver, a good road, a good day and you’re an important person and you’ve a tight schedule then you can break the law.

Or perhaps An Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, might have a word with him. Don’t hold your breath. Remember when Bertie’s cavalcade also travelled at speeds of up to 95 mph during the general election, his response was: “We were going slow today. When we are in the car we try to keep to the speed limit. When we are walking we break it.”
A funny man, Bertie. Funny, peculiar maybe but not funny Ha! Ha! No one is laughing, Bertie, because driving at 95 mph is no joke. Try it on a husband who has lost his wife because someone thought speed-driving was a joke, And while you’re at it tell Noel Treacy on behalf of the people of this country that we’d prefer it if he missed a Dáil debate rather than that he or someone else arrive dead on time.

Wishbone Ash

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

if he flouts laws

The Taoiseach didn't flout any laws - he wasn't driving. The driver of the vehicle (in this case a professional trained Garda driver) is responsible for the speed of the vehicle. Gardai are exempt from most of the Road Traffic Regulations while on duty. What law has been broken?

Seth Brundle

1. you are presuming that the driver has been professionally trained (unlike the vast majority of gardai driving out there)
2. Bertie had to have been aware of the speed at which he was travelling. He could have requested that the garda driving the car slow down especially given the speech he made a few hours before the incident.

Capt'n Midnight

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The Taoiseach didn't flout any laws - he wasn't driving. The driver of the vehicle

He was the cause of the law to be broken. If someone had been killed we all know the driver would have been the fall guy. :mad:

Catherine Nevin didn't kill anyone.

cast_iron

kbannon wrote:

1. you are presuming that the driver has been professionally trained (unlike the vast majority of gardai driving out there)

Prove otherwise, then make the same point.

kbannon wrote:

2. Bertie had to have been aware of the speed at which he was travelling. He could have requested that the garda driving the car slow down especially given the speech he made a few hours before the incident.

So point out where exactly Bertie's offence was - seeing as no speeding offence was commited (it being a Garda in his line of duty).

In fairness, i get your point, but it's not the people doing 95mph on "a good driver, a roadworthy car, it was on a good road and it was a beautiful day." that cause accidents - and the stats prove that.

Wishbone Ash

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

He was the cause of the law to be broken

By that process of logic it could be argued that a person who calls/requires an ambulance or fire brigade is responsible for any broken regulations.

Capt'n Midnight

Wishbone Ash wrote:

By that process of logic it could be argued that a person who calls/requires an ambulance or fire brigade is responsible for any broken regulations.

eh no.
AFAIK Calling an ambulance / fire brigade in a non-emergency is an offense. And certainly on the greater scheme of things there is usually a better reason to call them than being late for a photo opportunity.

Can anyone explain why it was necessary to have a schedule that necessitated speeding ? And no crap about extenuating services as this isn't the first time, unles there is some national emergencey we haven't heard of ?

gardai are allowed to break the speed limit in the course of their duty - or only in an emergency ? Does their duty include escorting politicians above the speed limit when there isn't an emergency ?

Capt'n Midnight

cast_iron wrote:

In fairness, i get your point, but it's not the people doing 95mph on "a good driver, a roadworthy car, it was on a good road and it was a beautiful day." that cause accidents - and the stats prove that.

So why do we have laws on speeding ?
also in this country we don't have that many beautiful days.

ps. link to stats now required.

steve-o

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Gardai are exempt from most of the Road Traffic Regulations while on duty.

Under certain circumstances. Was the driver responding to an emergency? Did he have his blue lights and siren on?

Victor

I spotted his official vehicle parked outside Whelan's on Wexford Street ('PS I Hate You' was being filmed there). Not only did it occupy the loading bay, but also the bike lane.

Happy Bertie

Don't we want the most important politician to have the highest productivity possible. We complain in this country about everything being late. I'm all for people with critical responsibility for the country being able to get A to B faster. If an aircraft serves that purpose...good...if that's not an option, then ground transport operated by qualified gardai is the next best thing. Why do so many people try to knock other people down for emotional rather than logical reasons. Are we all little children that when we see some one else given higher privilege (who earned it) we get all jealous. I just say to everyone who thinks that way, "grow up!". By the same logic the cause of accidents on the roads is, by going 20 mph over the limit on a straight stretch of motorway on a fine day...It's not.. Let's get with the game...most accidents are caused by people with anger or jealousy problems, or their mind in another place (maybe thinking about Bertie's speeding) while driving.
These are the real cause of road fatalities.
Drinking and drugs use.
Not knowing how to drive properly
Talking with other people either in car or on mobile.
Anger and agresiveness while driving.
Peer pressure while driving.
Falling asleep at the wheel.
Suicide.
Driving faster than what the conditions allow.
Driving too close to cars in front.
Not "reading" the road a 300m ahead.
Mechanical car problems.
Procrastination (leaving too late)

I really believe the vast majority of fatalities would be eliminated if the reasons for the above behaviour were investigated and solved. People do a lot of the preceeding bad habits because they are not psychologically healthy - they have some or all of the following, anger, depression, boredom, loneliness, neediness. There you have it, I've said it, the real cause of road accidents in Ireland and elsewhere for that matter. The secret is out now. Now how about treating all the previous conditions. I know, I know there is still a stigma or taboo about going to see a counsellor (psychologist) If you don't want to make this first step, then stop trying to find everyone else to blame for the road accident situation in this country.

steve-o

Happy Bertie wrote:

These are the real cause of road fatalities.

I'd have thought that not wearing a seatbelt should be near the top of that list.

Victor

Happy Bertie wrote:

Don't we want the most important politician to have the highest productivity possible.

Yes, hence I would prefer them not to be racing around the country opening pubs.

cast_iron

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

So why do we have laws on speeding ?

If you think that doing 55 km/hr in a 50 km/hr zone, at 2am in the morning, when you are the only car on the road is dangerous, then we will never agree. Personally, while technically "over the limit", i wouldn't consider it wrong.

Saying that, I didn't say speeding wasn't dangerous. It is (in certain circumstances), and that's why we have speeding laws.

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

link to stats now required.

I'll have to look them up, but it was the results of a major audit of the stats by the UK police - and basically, it said that SPEED was the sole factor in aprox 5% of road fatalities.

Andrew Duffy

A 50 km/h speed limit implies a built-up residential area, so driving at 55km/h is dangerous - it increases the speed you will impact a pedestrian at dramatically. At 2am you would have the hazards of parked cars, poor visibility and drunken pedestrians to deal with, all of which should make you lower your speed to increase your chance of reacting safely and in time to anything that might happen.
On the other hand, driving on the controlled environment of a motorway in a well maintained vehicle with good brakes and tyres at, say, 150km/h, does not seem to me to be much more dangerous than driving at the speed limit for such a road. From (limited) experience of deresticted German motorways, it takes a section with very low standards compared to our motorways before you will see a limit imposed.

cast_iron

Andrew Duffy wrote:

A 50 km/h speed limit implies a built-up residential area, so driving at 55km/h is dangerous - it increases the speed you will impact a pedestrian at dramatically.

50 km/hr implies no such thing - take the stretch of road just past Hueston Stn. outbound. It's 50km/hr with no houses, and just 1 road leading on to it (with traffic lights) and the Guards pull there very regularly. Dangerous my foot!

Andrew Duffy wrote:

At 2am you would have the hazards of parked cars, poor visibility and drunken pedestrians to deal with, all of which should make you lower your speed to increase your chance of reacting safely and in time to anything that might happen.

On the above mentioned stretch of road, at 2am or indeed most of the day, you would do well to see any of the above. There are no parked cars (it's a dual carraigeway), well lit road and pedeatrians rarely use it.

Victor

cast_iron wrote:

50 km/hr implies no such thing - take the stretch of road just past Hueston Stn. outbound. It's 50km/hr with no houses, and just 1 road leading on to it (with traffic lights) and the Guards pull there very regularly. Dangerous my foot!

Vehicles regularly slow down in the right hand lane to turn / U-turn to Heuston Station, so the limit is appropriate.

cast_iron

Victor wrote:

Vehicles regularly slow down in the right hand lane to turn / U-turn to Heuston Station, so the limit is appropriate.

Yes, but there is a filter lane for them.
And i have to say, i can't honestly remember the last time i say a car stick to 50km/hr on that stretch.

And for cars going inbound, those turning don't really have much affect on them.

mackerski

Victor wrote:

Vehicles regularly slow down in the right hand lane to turn / U-turn to Heuston Station, so the limit is appropriate.

This could be seen as making a case for the first 200m of the limit, and the hazard location occurs here just after the road straightens out, which is a further reason. However, there's no good reason the limit couldn't be raised once past the media gap.

Dermot

Andrew Duffy

cast_iron wrote:

Yes, but there is a filter lane for them.

No there isn't. There is enough space for one taxi to wait in the median gap, and there is regularly a queue behind that one taxi.

The speed limit increases to 60km/h after the crossing, then reduces to 50km/h approaching the Islandbridge junction where there is poor visibility and regular queuing.