So why do people generally hate Hip-Hop?

Orizio

I think we've all gotten that look when you tell someone you listen to rap.Like they expect you to talk like Lil' Jon and be a homophobic female hating bigot.They then start talking about 'real' Hip-Hop( ),about everybody other then Public Enemy and DJ Shadow being rubbish and speak about their dismay at every rapper not being a 5 percenter.

Is there racist undertones to people's dislike at an industry dominated heavily by blacks,is it just the ignorant belief that the tiny amount of artists on MTV represent the genre as a whole or is it just a dislike of any genre that dominates so heavily in a commercial sense?

ghostdancer

the MTV part basically. the vast majority of the public are complete ****ing idiots who think that The Killers are a good rock band, or Tiesto is a good dj, so their views on hiphop are usually not worth a ****e.

spacecoyote

Main problem really is that the only hip hop average joe really get a chance to see is the likes of 50 cent, etc... on MTV. And the second problem is that average joe can't see beyond the end of their noses! i think there is some inherent racism in it alright, you don't have to go too far to find racist types anywhere, and definitely not in Ireland. i think theres also a bit of a stigma attached to hip hop fans that they are all "Wigga" types, wearing their G-Unit hoodies with bandanas & their jeans hanging low or just scumbags who love 2pac & fiddy & snoop & get thug life tattoed on their arms or shoulders (basically commercial hip hop in Ireland attracts the lowest common denominator of society who love the concept of b*tches bling & guns) . I know in my case that most people are surprised by my appearance to find out I love hip hop. I started a similar thread to this a while back called hip hop hatred or something like that in the Music forum, and any or all of the reasons mentioned in the posts here are those which are reflected in the replies of non hip hop fans.

shane86

Orizio wrote:

I think we've all gotten that look when you tell someone you listen to rap.Like they expect you to talk like Lil' Jon and be a homophobic female hating bigot.They then start talking about 'real' Hip-Hop( ),about everybody other then Public Enemy and DJ Shadow being rubbish and speak about their dismay at every rapper not being a 5 percenter.

Is there racist undertones to people's dislike at an industry dominated heavily by blacks,is it just the ignorant belief that the tiny amount of artists on MTV represent the genre as a whole or is it just a dislike of any genre that dominates so heavily in a commercial sense?

Wait.....so your against people who hate the genre or people who hate everything bar Shadow and PE?

Tbh i think some on this forum take things too seriously. Fair enough, I wish for the days of 36 Chambers, Ready to Die and Illmatic, but at the same time after a rake of drink Im not too snobby to be out on the floor to the likes of Get Low. Crunk etc is fairly brainless, but its only the truly bad stuff (awful lyrics, awful beats) which really riles me these days. For example, its pure commercial and 50 billion years away from Cuban Linx or whatever but I like the new Lloyd Banks one , its got a good beat and theres no harm at all in that. Likewise, I loved In Da Club but hated, say, Candy Shop. Admittedtly Im very wary of listebning to anyone I havent heard already, I dont really go on what others tell me without listening to it first.

As for peoples reactions, in Dublin it basically seems that 80-90% of the northside are into the scene, whereas maybe only a third from the better off parts. Middle of the roaders like Coldplay or plain death metal seems to be a bigger thing there.

As for the country folk, jesus dont get me started, mostly they wouldnt know good music if it slapped them across the face with its lad. At most 10-20% are into it. The college crowd are into middle of the road ****e (although alot will own a Kanye CD or two), and the scobes are into only Tupac, Dre, Eminem, 50 and the cheesiest dance imaginable. Theyd regard Snoop as alternative hip hop tbh, and Id agree here with what you said that the view would be that its "blacks music". Diffrerent Strokes Diffrent Folks tbh, Id rate pretty much anything Outkast has done since 2000 on the same level as Chingy and that crowd. I remember going to a party in a college flat block on the southside, someone had brought along the rap CDs and we were on a good vibe, few drinks good tunes just havin a laugh. Then the country girls stuck on, I dont know, Foo Fighters or some ****e. Jesus Christ its a ****ing party! Luckily, we vetoed the wishes of the owner of the flat and replaced that bollocks with a bit of Dre 2001 and Lets Get High (when there were locked people falling around the living room singing "yeaaahhh, i just took some ecstasy" they had had enough )

So in a nutshell, north Dublin loves it, southside has a fairly large, but by no means majority following, and in the sticks most of them dont get it at all, down there you are either into the Chillis, metal or Ireland Clubland Classics live from Mitchelstown Cheese Plant. I dont know why its like that down there at all tbh.

spacecoyote

shane86 wrote:

Wait.....so your against people who hate the genre or people who hate everything bar Shadow and PE?

i don't think he's against anyone, more of a question as to why people are against hip hop. and i think he was referring to the two extremes of people who either hate hip hop or are overly elitist.

shane86 wrote:

Tbh i think some on this forum take things too seriously. Fair enough, I wish for the days of 36 Chambers, Ready to Die and Illmatic, but at the same time after a rake of drink Im not too snobby to be out on the floor to the likes of Get Low. Crunk etc is fairly brainless, but its only the truly bad stuff (awful lyrics, awful beats) which really riles me these days.

this is not really too relevant to the argument. there was at least as much if not more hatred towards hip hop when ready to die dropped, the music nowadays is just more crass. theres a different kind of misunderstanding. Go back to the early nineties when you were, what 6-7 (going by your name) & there was just as much controversy surrounding the music of Ice T, NWA, etc...in those days there was hip hop hatred over its violent themes, etc...this has carried through to the modern era but the hatred to me seems to have shifted away from the violence & moreso switched to the sex culture & excess preached by modern popular artists (not to say these themes didn't exist in the 90s either)

shane86 wrote:

As for peoples reactions, in Dublin it basically seems that 80-90% of the northside are into the scene, whereas maybe only a third from the better off parts. Middle of the roaders like Coldplay or plain death metal seems to be a bigger thing there.

that was kind of a point i was making. In dublin, particularly in lower socio-economic areas there is a bigger following for hip hop (or what can be losely described as hip hop). I'm from tallaght so no accusations of me slagging off underpriveleged areas. the simple matter of fact is that because so many scumbags love hip hop (it used to be ub40 or bob marley back in my youth that was cool for the scum to listen to) it becomes a focus for negative attention.

shane86

spacecoyote wrote:

this is not really too relevant to the argument. there was at least as much if not more hatred towards hip hop when ready to die dropped, the music nowadays is just more crass. theres a different kind of misunderstanding. Go back to the early nineties when you were, what 6-7 (going by your name) & there was just as much controversy surrounding the music of Ice T, NWA, etc...in those days there was hip hop hatred over its violent themes, etc...this has carried through to the modern era but the hatred to me seems to have shifted away from the violence & moreso switched to the sex culture & excess preached by modern popular artists (not to say these themes didn't exist in the 90s either)

Id imagine that some of it back then was based on the lines of "exactly what relevance to you does the wu tang rapping about teenagers selling crack have in Dublin in 1994".

While it was beat driven rap that got me into the scene back around 1999 when I was 13 (the biggest release of the year being Dres 2001). Until that age I wasnt into music much at all, I liked a bit of Oasis and some Will Smith (probably my first taste of the scene tbh, stuff like Men in Black and Miami, loved them back in the day) The following year we got skydigital, so I was even more exposed. By about 15/16 I started buying up older classic stuff, Illmatic, RTD, Doggystyle etc etc. And what I liked about these old albums was that they were relevant to me. Whther it was the laid back party songs on Doggystyle such as Gin and Juice, or things about life, depression, drinking (Everyday Struggle by Biggie, back then Id less trouble in my life then I do now at times, sometimes I listen to songs such as this, "I remember I was just like you...drink Tanqueray, so you can reminisce" line ), I found myself relating to the lyrics alot more than whatever generic I love you or Ive lost you nonsense Coldplay or the Chillis would bring out. Also was the ambition of the music. Face it, if you won the lotto yid stock up on cristal for the image as well

evil_seed

I don't think it's a question of people hating hip-hop. It's a case of people hating rap music. Hip-hop is far more than just rap, we all know that

Makaveli

The vast majority of Hip-Hop people are exposed to is rap though.

As for the arguement that the less affluent prefer it to the more I don't buy it. Not only is it a considerable generalisation but it's a bit silly to just make that assumption. You may have little scobes going around blasting 50 from their cars and championing the thug style of the music but that's not to say others aren't listening too. Most people will be more discrete about it, which isn't too hard in comparison.

Most of my friends don't listen to Hip-Hop, but then again most of them will have a Kanye West, Eminem, Dr Dre album. They are the same people that say rap is crap because of what they see on MTV yet ironically they like it, they just don't want to admit it. Most of the MTV stuff gets played in night clubs and it works pretty well there. A lot of it is dross, but when you're locked you don't really care.

More people listen to rap these days than ever before. I'd say a lot of people will not admit to liking it for one reason or another (A - they meet some head who ridicules them for listening to 50 Cent. B - they are embarrassed to tell people because it's a guilty pleasure. C - the vast majority of people around love Coldplay, Snow Patrol, The Killers, whatever is hip and trendy to like in the charts today, so they think they can hold an air of pretension and rap is only for 16 year old scumbags. D - due to the lyrical content and image that goes with a lot of mainstream rap they don't want to be seen condoning it. E - they don't want people to think they are wiggers.)

Usually whatever is most popular is most scorned. Saturation is never a good thing and when all you hear is the same crap you grow to hate it without giving the rest a chance. If you based all dance music on MTV Dance you would think it's all Tiesto and cheesy 80's songs remixes. Watching Kerrang you would think it's all emo or nu-metal. MTV and the charts have never been a good indication of genres, mainly because the key demographic they appeal to is teenagers (mainly girls).

All that aside, a lot of people hate it because they think it's crap. I think most metal I've heard is crap I don't dislike it for any other reason.

BLITZ_Molloy

I was at a house party with 20+ people a couple of weeks ago. Threw on a mix CD with Cypress Hill, Ice Cube, De La Soul and various other stuff on it and it went down a storm.

You won't see Coldplay or Snow Patrol go down that well at a house party. One of our guests had the new Killers cd. And it got turned off after track 4. There are a few catchy singles on there but everybody I've talked to who bought it says the 2nd half of the album is dire.

shane86

The Killers are one of the worst bands I have ever heard. Someone who suggests playing them at a party shouldnt be allowed to have a social life tbh. Thats what gets me- the anti rap heads, its all "ah its bollocks all about lads boasting about their bitches and guns", then they listen to songs by the Chillis etc that are about....well.....nothing! Id rather hear MC Dirty South shout crunk 20 times and talk about how drunk Hennesey gets him than a RHCP song absoloutely nothing!

geoff_nfl

ppl these days just dont wana hear ppl talk about stuff straight up and givin it to us clearly!!!!! i personally dont like all the crunk scene and s**t cos it dont mean nuthin 2 me but ddat only my opinion , i respect any1 who in2 it so sont get me rong. bring back the days of the wu tang,cypress hill and d 90's rap in its prime!!!!!!!! if people just take time to listen to any of the older s**t they would realise rap aint all 50 cents and lil jon's!!! it just preconceived ideas have that they get from the rappers today that the media show up to be actual GANGSTERS and associated with all crime and s**t!!!!!!

phenomenon

Some people take rap too seriously. I enjoy listening to Dead Prez preaching their political messages but at the same time I might like to dance to Lil Jon rapping about sh!te. Its called fun.

As to why people hate hip hop....well its ignorance really. These ppl have only been exposed to 50cent and are unable to differentiate between this commercial studio gangsta crap and more real rap like, say, Nas. Not that it bothers me really. They are the ones missing out! Let them listen to The Killers or Kanye West (it appears hes the only rapper acceptable to the middle classes. Its currently fashionable to like him. Probably because he featured maroon 5 on one of his singles)

Orizio

With all due respect Kanye is under rated by a lot of people imo.He makes good music, not classic music but has created a lot of excellent tracks.Furthermore, he puts out some of the best 'commercial' music.We need more people like him.And he has helped bring through the likes of Lupe and Rhymefest,gave Common greater wider recognition.Some respect is needed I think.

To whoever said Outkast were comparable to Chingy, please be quiet.Your lost and probably a little insane.

RHCP are awful,awful,awful.The Killers are a little better.The problem is that from a lyrical point of view the likes of The Killers, Bloc Party are either so pretentious they are talking out of their own arse or simply talking gibberish.If Hip-Hop is in decline, then Rock isn't far behind.In fact the whole of the music industry seems to be hungover from the 90's.

Usually whatever is most popular is most scorned. Saturation is never a good thing and when all you hear is the same crap you grow to hate it without giving the rest a chance. If you based all dance music on MTV Dance you would think it's all Tiesto and cheesy 80's songs remixes. Watching Kerrang you would think it's all emo or nu-metal. MTV and the charts have never been a good indication of genres, mainly because the key demographic they appeal to is teenagers (mainly girls).

Worth repeating.

Sajan

I think music is about identifying with the artists aswell as the music that they make.. The view of Hip Hop that is portrayed in the media is of Multi Millionaires, gangsters, Drugs, Cars.. You know the stereotypical Rapper/Hip Hop artist I am talking about. Not many people identify with that.

If on the other hand, Hip Hop was portrayed with the rich culture that it possesses, more people would get it and it certainly wouldn't carry the stigma that it does. I went to A blackalicious gig with my brother years ago and his view of hip hop would have been quite negative until that night. It's all about what people are exposed to. Its the same with any type of music really..

Rant over.

Orizio

I'm not sure the 'I can't relate to it' argument makes any sense anyway.For one thing, if we limited our music choices to artists we could completely relate to we would be severly losing it.As well it seems rather stupid to assume that we can't relate to another person's situations on some level.And why would you not want to listen to music you can't 'relate' to anyway?

Nightwish

As someone who is not a hip hop or RnB fan, and will never ever post on this forum again, I'll just offer my opinion. I can appreciate good music, in all genres. I usually just listen to rock & metal but I like a good dance or cheesy tune too. However rap, hip hop and RnB is just a genre I cannot get into. I listen to it the whole time in work. One of the guys sticks on his i-Pod with every song from that genre. I just find that there is far too much of that gangsta crap in the lyrics, too much sampling, lack of originality in the music and so many rappers sound alike. I cannot tell one from the other. I dont expect people to argue with me over this, as I'm just offering an answer to the question posed in the thread, as someone who really doesnt like hip hop.

ghostdancer

and what artists have you listened to? i'm just curious as to what artists sound all the same, i'd imagine that it's the commercial ****e that your workmate puts on, which unfortunately is pretty much the only "hiphop" that 90% of the population is ever exposed to, and represents the absolute bottom of the barrel as far as all strands of hiphop go.
that's like me saying that Rhapsody of Fire and Busted are pretty much the same cos they feature guitars in most of the tracks.
and it's quite interesting that you lump r 'n' b and hip hop into the one genre when they're very, very different.
listen to someone like Buck65 or Emcee Lynx, and then try compare them to Lil Jon or 50 Cent, and then to Erykah Badu or John Legend, and if you can't notice a difference I'll buy you some new black makeup and a razorblade

projectmayhem

ghostdancer wrote:

and what artists have you listened to? i'm just curious as to what artists sound all the same, i'd imagine that it's the commercial ****e that your workmate puts on, which unfortunately is pretty much the only "hiphop" that 90% of the population is ever exposed to, and represents the absolute bottom of the barrel as far as all strands of hiphop go.
that's like me saying that Rhapsody of Fire and Busted are pretty much the same cos they feature guitars in most of the tracks.
and it's quite interesting that you lump r 'n' b and hip hop into the one genre when they're very, very different.

you have to understand that the commercial stuff is what the public consider rap/hip-hop. the same way i don't expect anyone to delve deep into my cd collection and pull out some obscure metal as an example of what it is. they're going to see "slipknot" as the prime example of metal, or greenday as a prime example of punk. the same way people will see g-unit as the prime example of rap.

Makaveli

ghostdancer wrote:

and it's quite interesting that you lump r 'n' b and hip hop into the one genre when they're very, very different.

Blame the likes of MTV for that too. If it's black it's urban and that means R'n'B = Hip-Hop. There's also a lot of collaborations done between artists of the two genres which helps to blur the lines even more. It's along the same lines as differentiating rap and Hip-Hop. This board should not be called Rap & Hip-Hop it should just be called Hip-Hop.

I'd love to slap the person that came up with the urban tag for music. I wonder could they recommend me some rural music while they're at it.

Actually Nightwish's post reminds me of a post in the thread started by Orizio on the Music forum about the same topic. Tar.Aldarion went on to say he can appreciate all music that's good or whatever except Hip-Hop because it's pure crap only to turn around and mention he likes DJ Shadow in the same post. You say the chap in work's iPod has nothing but Hip-Hop on it but you could be talking about nothing more than Chingy, it could be the equivalent of Now That's What I Call Music Da Ghetto Version.

JC 2K3

Why do people generally hate hip hop? Same reason the only consistantly "cool" instrument that exists is the guitar. And what is this reason? It's fundamentally a mixture of commercial brainwashing and conditioning and for some reason the need people seem to have to take sides and be better than others.

Guitar music is a safe choice if you want to seem to have better taste than others. What other instruments are popular? Piano/keyboards maybe. But apart from that, in the mainstream scene there's only electronic sounds/samples and precussion based music(ie. hip hop(and in rap vocals are essentially precussion)). In any rap vs rock/metal argument between arrogant knobheads the rock fan will inevitably seem to come out on top. They have the whole musicianship argument on their side as well as being able to ridicule the whole "gangsta rap" culture. However invalid their arguments are, they will seem more "intellectual". This is a lot of what guitar music's commercial appeal is based on - "It takes talent". What bs....

The problem basically is lack of detailed knowledge of other genres. You usually develop a random bias of varying strength for a specific style of music in your teens, and it can stick with you for life. And when you're familiar with one kind of music it's quite hard to adapt to listening to another type, and when you're a devoted fan of one genre that's the only genre you'll be listening to non-mainstream artists from. The only music of other genres you hear will likely be mainstream crap.

You can see the biases in this thread. Shane86, you should try listening to some non-mainstream guitar music. Real rock fans know all those indie bands and the chillis(these days) are ****(you should listen to some early Chillis, like from the 80s, very hip hop/funk influenced, you'd be surprised how different they are now). Makaveli, you say you dislike metal based on what you've heard, but have you tried listening to much of it? Nightwish, you sound like you have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what real hip hop is. I used to be like you. I thought rock was the be all and end all of music and rap and dance were shít. Then, while going through a phase of opening my mind(which is still ongooing), I heard Dance with the Devil by Immortal Technique and realised there was definately something there, that rap wasn't the crap I thought it was.

Right now I'm discovering the joys of electronic music, but I'll be checking out some more hip hop in the near future.

Peace,
JC

shane86

Orizio wrote:

To whoever said Outkast were comparable to Chingy, please be quiet.Your lost and probably a little insane.

At the risk of going off topic they are severely cheesy in all fairness. Its just kids music these days and Andre3000 is the biggest nobhead in the industry. Even Diddy doesnt come close (mind you, amazingly that new track with your one from PCD is fairly listenable. Considering were talking about a guy who in 13 odd years in the biz featured on maybe 4 decent tunes)

Guitar heads will tell you at least the Chillis can play an instrument. Can the Chillis come up with freestyle rhymes like even the worst rappers in the trade generally can? If you want an example of talent, download some freestyles.

Sangre

People seem to be operating under the assumption that people dislike RnB for a reason other than their taste in music or the quality of the artists.

Maybe its their socio-economic group, maybe its MTV, maybe its saturation or maybe because its because they don't like RnB?

Sangre

shane86 wrote:

Guitar heads will tell you at least the Chillis can play an instrument. Can the Chillis come up with freestyle rhymes like even the worst rappers in the trade generally can? If you want an example of talent, download some freestyles.

Tell me about, someone people think soccer players are talented but Ronaldinho couldn't even dribble like the worst basketball players. Watch the NBA, now thats talent!

Makaveli

I've heard a bit of metal and I do find some of it good. I'm just not a fan of people screaming into a mic. The sheer number of sub genres within metal is enough to put anyone off though. I like the musicianship in metal, if there was purely instrumental metal I'd be more inclined to listen to it. The lyrical content does nothing for me though the majority of the time.

Makaveli

Sangre wrote:

Maybe its their socio-economic group, maybe its MTV, maybe its saturation or maybe because its because they don't like RnB?

RnB aside, I said all that in my first post. There's a large majority of people who will not like it because it's just not their taste in music.

shane86

Sangre wrote:

Tell me about, someone people think soccer players are talented but Ronaldinho couldn't even dribble like the worst basketball players. Watch the NBA, now thats talent!

Darts and football are two sports, I doubt many obese darts players could last 90 minutes on field. The fact is that certain sports require more physical fitness or, basically, more talent than others. In the same way certain music genres have different levels of talent.

Another gripe people have is that live hip hop cant be any good because there is usually no band. What I like about a decent gig is that everyone there is heavy into it, the crowd knows the words, and yil never find another genre that makes the crowd as much of the performance as the rappers themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRjkVF9uX6c

Watch that. Its loud, its rowdy, its aggressive, its ****ing classic (jesus, look at the fake smiles and laughs on Tupac and Snoop as Suge comes up to hug them, they were feckin terrified of the bastard!)

Sangre

Makaveli wrote:

RnB aside, I said all that in my first post. There's a large majority of people who will not like it because it's just not their taste in music.

Wasn't trying to pigeon-hole all the posters here. Just a few who think that a lack of appreciation is caused by a brain defect.

Regarding getting the crowd invovled shane86, you've clearly never been to the panto. Ip so facto, panto performers are the most talented people in the world.

JC 2K3

shane86 wrote:

Guitar heads will tell you at least the Chillis can play an instrument. Can the Chillis come up with freestyle rhymes like even the worst rappers in the trade generally can? If you want an example of talent, download some freestyles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3EV1t88ZwY

And there's a bit of them doing it without instruments in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAeQWKUbpaY

The Chilli's have close links with hip hop, even if they don't write songs like Sex Rap any more.

shane86

Sangre wrote:

Regarding getting the crowd invovled shane86, you've clearly never been to the panto. Ip so facto, panto performers are the most talented people in the world.

I was, years ago as a kid. It was good now, but for crowd interaction Im more of the "G UNIT CAN SUCK MY DICK!" drunk as hell crowd shouting at The Games gig than shouting "Hes behind you" at the age of 20

BLITZ_Molloy

In fairness in most pubs/clubs you go to you're going to hear some hip hop music. The same can't be said for metal, which I think is perhaps a far more marginalised music. Not that I'm complaining, I can't stand metal.

The same can be said for trad music. I love it, and as I live in Clare there's tons of it, but plenty of my friends actively hate it.

Orizio

JC 2K3 wrote:

Why do people generally hate hip hop? Same reason the only consistantly "cool" instrument that exists is the guitar. And what is this reason? It's fundamentally a mixture of commercial brainwashing and conditioning and for some reason the need people seem to have to take sides and be better than others.

Guitar music is a safe choice if you want to seem to have better taste than others. What other instruments are popular? Piano/keyboards maybe. But apart from that, in the mainstream scene there's only electronic sounds/samples and precussion based music(ie. hip hop(and in rap vocals are essentially precussion)). In any rap vs rock/metal argument between arrogant knobheads the rock fan will inevitably seem to come out on top. They have the whole musicianship argument on their side as well as being able to ridicule the whole "gangsta rap" culture. However invalid their arguments are, they will seem more "intellectual". This is a lot of what guitar music's commercial appeal is based on - "It takes talent". What bs....

The problem basically is lack of detailed knowledge of other genres. You usually develop a random bias of varying strength for a specific style of music in your teens, and it can stick with you for life. And when you're familiar with one kind of music it's quite hard to adapt to listening to another type, and when you're a devoted fan of one genre that's the only genre you'll be listening to non-mainstream artists from. The only music of other genres you hear will likely be mainstream crap.

You can see the biases in this thread. Shane86, you should try listening to some non-mainstream guitar music. Real rock fans know all those indie bands and the chillis(these days) are ****(you should listen to some early Chillis, like from the 80s, very hip hop/funk influenced, you'd be surprised how different they are now). Makaveli, you say you dislike metal based on what you've heard, but have you tried listening to much of it? Nightwish, you sound like you have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what real hip hop is. I used to be like you. I thought rock was the be all and end all of music and rap and dance were shít. Then, while going through a phase of opening my mind(which is still ongooing), I heard Dance with the Devil by Immortal Technique and realised there was definately something there, that rap wasn't the crap I thought it was.

Right now I'm discovering the joys of electronic music, but I'll be checking out some more hip hop in the near future.

Peace,
JC

To carry on this phase I suggest the following...

The Roots-Things Fall Apart,Do You Want More??!???
Blackstar-Blackstar.
Talib Kweli-Reflection Eternal,Quality.
Mos Def-Black On Both Sides.
RJD2-Deadringer.
Anything by Common,Organised Konfusion,Outkast,Massive Attack and Portishead.(yes I do count the last two as Hip-Hop,albeit with clear Electronica leanings.)

All brilliant artists/albums,all the kind of stuff rock fans tend to like.

If you like Electronica, then you can't go wrong with the likes of Amon Tobin, Four Tet and Prefuse 73.

A word on R'n'B.I love R'n'B, listen to it constantly and while its clearly not the same as Hip-Hop and shouldn't be defined as such,there is nothing wrong with both genres overlapping.As with Hip-Hop its a genre that has been tainted by the weak stuff we seen on the TV.

Makaveli

Portishead and Massive Attack are Trip-Hop if anything, I would not consider them to be Hip-Hop along with Tricky, Mono, Fink etc. Although they have many similarities with Hip-Hop they aren't. The same can be said for a lot of Electronic music. Electronic music and Hip-Hop are very similar when it comes to the instrumental side of Hip-Hop, DJ Shadow, Blockhead, RJD2, DJ Krush, Aim, etc could be considered Electronic although they lean more on the Hip-Hop side of things. Just as Amon Tobin, Coldcut, DJ Food, Four Tet (Four Tet did those Madvillain remixes) lean on the electronic side of things however being very close to Hip-Hop. Prefuse 73 I would consider Hip-Hop based on who he has worked with and what he produces (One Word Extinguisher for example).

I listen to a lot of Ninja Tune music, which in itself could be its own genre, but certainly blurs the lines between Hip-Hop and Electronic music. Electronic music in the sense of Ninja Tune/Mo' Wax and instrumental Hip-Hop (DJ Shadow etc) are very closely linked. There is little in the difference between these two genres.

Modern R'n'B I consider a poor man's soul. J-Lo is not Anita Baker and never will be (just as Mario Winans will never be a Marvin Gaye). I love soul music but todays R'n'B is a bastardisation of the soul genre imo.

Karl Hungus

This is a very interesting topic.

I'd agree with what Makaveli has said. I'd also wholeheartedly agree with with Sangre has said; People here are coming out with some ridiculous reasons for why people don't like the genre.

Frankly, it's got nothing to do with race at all. So you can just put away such silly notions. If you were to go over to the Rock/Metal board, post a thread on Jimi Hendrix, you'd find nothing but praise for the man. Why? Because Hendrix was an absolute visionary and amazing guitar player, and people on the board love him for that.

If race had anything to do with it, there wouldn't be bands like God Forbid. Here's another vid. I don't expect anyone here to like them, but I'm just proving a point.

I do listen to some Hip Hop, and I've even gone to a club in Osaka and seen a few Japanese Hip Hop acts, which was very cool indeed. But I'm not going to pretend anything, because I really don't listen to it very often, and the fact of the matter is that it doesn't appeal to me all that much.

What does appeal to me in a lot of Rock and Metal music is the use of interesting song structures, sometimes interesting time signiatures, and such like. I like a lot of 70's Prog Rock, Jazz, Electronic and Classical music, I like a lot of instrumentation, slow build ups, atmosphere, crescendo, songs that can be 10, 20, 30 minutes long, or even go on for over an hour. Songs that are more of a journey, a musical narrative, not some little 3 minute ditty that you can dance to.

I don't find any of that in Hip Hop. Simple as.

Makaveli

Hip-Hop isn't that style of music though. You can get long mixes by DJs (Shadow and Cut Chemist - Brainfreeze for example) but it's just not the type of music that will have 15 minute musical solos (or in some cases instrumental masturbation). The jazz infused Hip-Hop will be more along those lines, Madlib and Peanut Butter Wolf produce music heavily influenced by jazz but you are still not going to find these epic 20 minute plus tracks Miles Davis style.

Instead whole albums are the journey and will guide you through the feeling of the artist, taken as stand alone tracks they don't have the same impact. Without live instrumentation you will never get the same sense of the artist being as absorbed by the music but that's not to say the same feeling/atmosphere isn't there.

Karl Hungus

Makaveli wrote:

Hip-Hop isn't that style of music though.

That's exactly my point though. I say this to illustrate why it doesn't appeal as much.

spacecoyote

well you could argue that some artists have made epic songs. For instance Water by The Roots is as much an experimental musical journey as you're likely to hear, ok its only about 12 minutes long so it can't compete with your 1hr songs.

Maybe those guys who are more rock than hip hop fans strictly might like Mos Def's album The New Danger. its got a more alternative/rock influence which isn't a lot of hip hop fans cup of tea but its an album thats grown on me.

i think that it is a valid point that what people listen to when thy are young can greatly influence what they listen to when older. when i was about 10 i was listening to the likes of metallica & guns n roses, then i moved onto a Prince phase, then started listening to old r'n'b/soul music like Marvin Gaye & Stevie Wonder before moving onto Hip Hop. Nowadays the bulk of my collection is made up of hip hop music but i still regularly listen to other music from any of a hundred other genres. To me its not a matter of liking one genre & writing off anything else (particularly what might be classed as polar opposites, i'll listen to Edan one minute & then be just as likely to stick on some Dean Martin the next), i like what I class as good music, whatever the genre. I feel that if people write off hip-hop (or any other genre really) before looking below the surface than its their loss at the end of the day.

JC 2K3

Orizio wrote:

To carry on this phase I suggest the following...

The Roots-Things Fall Apart,Do You Want More??!???
Blackstar-Blackstar.
Talib Kweli-Reflection Eternal,Quality.
Mos Def-Black On Both Sides.
RJD2-Deadringer.
Anything by Common,Organised Konfusion,Outkast,Massive Attack and Portishead.(yes I do count the last two as Hip-Hop,albeit with clear Electronica leanings.)

All brilliant artists/albums,all the kind of stuff rock fans tend to like.

If you like Electronica, then you can't go wrong with the likes of Amon Tobin, Four Tet and Prefuse 73.

Cool, I'll check some of them out, only one of them I've heard is Outkast, I didn't particularly like them though...

Electronicawise I'm really into the likes of Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares etc. ie. the more experimental side of things. Dunno what thhe artists you recommended to me are like, but I'll check them out anyway.

SoundKlash

Rather than go over what so many people have already said so well - I think Hip Hop is still seen as a "Novelty" even in the music industry, theres still an atitude of "we don't know what the f__k it is but it makes cash & the kids love it"
Its this atittude that has moved mainstream rap into the current - bling booty-cribs bollocks corner.
Unfortunately most people cant differentiate or dont want to think too much about it.
Ask your parents(or grandparents) what they think of heavy metal & theres a good chance they'll say its not real music & the bands are all satan worshipping drug addicts who eat bats.
Its pretty much the same as people hating " hip hop."
(term used in context)

Makaveli

Karl Hungus wrote:

That's exactly my point though. I say this to illustrate why it doesn't appeal as much.

Ha, I could barely read what was on the screen when I made that post let alone pick up on points. It probably took me half an hour to even write that post.

Mental note - don't leave your computer on at night if you go out.

CiaranC

When I think of hip-hop im reminded of that scene in 'Office Space' where the white guy is sitting in his car in traffic on the way to his white collar programming job, blasting out hip-hop and shouting along to the lyrics. He sees some poor black guy selling newspapers in the traffic, so he turns it down, sinks down in his seat and locks the doors.

Orizio

CiaranC wrote:

When I think of hip-hop im reminded of that scene in 'Office Space' where the white guy is sitting in his car in traffic on the way to his white collar programming job, blasting out hip-hop and shouting along to the lyrics. He sees some poor black guy selling newspapers in the traffic, so he turns it down, sinks down in his seat and locks the doors.

Thats funny.

Your point?

evil_seed

Makaveli wrote:

I'd love to slap the person that came up with the urban tag for music. I wonder could they recommend me some rural music while they're at it.

Quote of the year

Nightwish

As I said, I've no idea what artists I'm subjected to in work everyday, but I will find out. I dont know what the commercial stuff is, so maybe thats what I'm listening to. I dont watch MTV, nor do I know chart stuff.

lostexpectation

I hate the I've got money so I'll shove it in your face artist. Or I was born poor so now I can piss it away black artists.