Emulation SUCKS

THE GAMESMASTER

Well thats what I think anyway, loads of glitches and games completely missing. Emulation is like owning a kit-car ferrari compared to owning a real ferrari, hollow and kinda embarassing to admit to. Now I reckon I was in the same boat as most people at one stage i.e where can I get a real cabinet?, where the hell can I put it? etc, however I went outta my way and got it together, and I've never looked back. Plus I hate it when people get a genuine arcade machine and then destroy it to put a bloody PC in it! These cabinets are a finite resource! Plus, because I put in the effort, everything I own now is really valuable to me, it has currency if you know what I mean. How anyone can value a 5 minute, throwaway download is crazy (especially when they're not 100% accurate).

Anyway I just started some controversy I reckon, so let it rip......

DonkeyStyle \o/

Meh, some people just aren't as into it, or can't afford it, or don't have the space.

THE GAMESMASTER wrote:

kinda embarassing to admit to.

tbh I'd be more embaresed to admit spending two grand on the original pacman cabinet

Emcee Kenna

The Gamesmaster is talking sense here - there really is nothing like playing the REAL thing in a real cabinet.

I first got into emulation back in 1999, but playing the original games in JAMMA cabs or originals is a whole different experience. Trying to emulate the feel of an arcade cabinet by adding X-Arcade controls isn't even close. A bit gimmicky maybe?

If you do wish to MAME an arcade cab you should at least use a Jpac and Arcade VGA card from Ultimarc. At least that way all the wiring of your JAMMA cab remains untouched / unhacked and all coin mechanisms fully work. It's kinda like plugging your PC into your JAMMA connection, just like you would with a JAMMA pcb. Oh, that reminds me, another WRONG - using a PC monitor in an arcade cab. The picture a PC monitor produces is nothing like what a CRT monitor produces. Those games were designed specifically for CRT monitors so no mater how good your emulation is you're still not gonna get close to the original.

It is dissapointing to hear of people gutting out (scarce) original arcade machines..

Trode

THE GAMESMASTER wrote:

Well thats what I think anyway, loads of glitches and games completely missing. Emulation is like owning a kit-car ferrari compared to owning a real ferrari, hollow and kinda embarassing to admit to. Now I reckon I was in the same boat as most people at one stage i.e where can I get a real cabinet?, where the hell can I put it? etc, however I went outta my way and got it together, and I've never looked back. Plus I hate it when people get a genuine arcade machine and then destroy it to put a bloody PC in it! These cabinets are a finite resource!

Anyway I just started some controversy I reckon, so let it rip......

So, part of your complaint is that not every game is emulated, and this makes owning original cabs better? Wow. You must have a whole lot of storage space.

THE GAMESMASTER wrote:

Plus, because I put in the effort, everything I own now is really valuable to me, it has currency if you know what I mean. How anyone can value a 5 minute, throwaway download is crazy (especially when they're not 100% accurate).

Maybe they'd value it because it's a good game? Arcade games(and for whatever reason that's the only kind of emulation you seem to acknowledge) were designed around the concept of somebody having a quick blast and, hopefully, liking it enough to come back and pay again and again. If not they'd wander off and try the same with the next thing that caught their eye. As such, it's probably closer to how the original games were meant to be played to browse the virtual arcade of MAME and dip in and out of what's on offer, returning to the good and ignoring the bad, than to choose one or two and play them obssessively.

Emcee Kenna

Have you ever played an arcade game in MAME then immediately compared that with exact same game being played in with and arcade CRT monitor?

I have had MAME running alongside my arcade cabinets on countless occasions and, visually, the results really are distinct. For example, OutRun being run on a pc monitor looks horrible compared to being run on a Wells Gardner monitor.

To be honest, it's not something that will really sink in unless you actually own an arcade machine and see the two formats running at once.

That's not forgetting, of course, when you own an unhacked original arcade machine you really do possess a rare piece of gaming history.

Trode

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Have you ever played an arcade game in MAME then immediately compared that with exact same game being played in with and arcade CRT monitor?

I have had MAME running alongside my arcade cabinets on countless occasions and, visually, the results really are distinct. For example, OutRun being run on a pc monitor looks horrible compared to being run on a Wells Gardner monitor.

Not an arcade, no, but I have seen games running on both PC and a TV. I'm not disputing there is a qualitative difference in appearance. That said, if I was that concerned with visuals, why would I be playing a 20+ year old game in the first place?

Emcee Kenna wrote:

To be honest, it's not something that will really sink in unless you actually own an arcade machine and see the two formats running at once.

That's not forgetting, of course, when you own an unhacked original arcade machine you really do possess a rare piece of gaming history.

Ah, but then you have the Catch-22 of being biased toward the option that cost you the most time/effort/money, because you're naturally inclined to convince yourself it was justified. You can't tell me the difference isn't exaggerated a little in your mind by pride of personal achievement.

LoGiE

Emulation sucks? Thats a sweeping statement! Your forgeting that its a vital way of cataloging and recording games that otherwise might be lost! No one can deny that playing Killer instinct or Mortal Kombat in it's original cab was an experience but emulation has allowed these games to become timless teasures still played by thousands of people who weren't even born when they were released.

Emcee Kenna

Trode wrote:

So, part of your complaint is that not every game is emulated, and this makes owning original cabs better? Wow. You must have a whole lot of storage space.

I think you were either missing the point there or being very petty.
The point Gamesmaster was putting forward was the fact that you can purchase arcade pcbs for games that have not yet been emulated, not emulated 100% or have been emulated poorly.

Trode wrote:

Not an arcade, no, but I have seen games running on both PC and a TV. I'm not disputing there is a qualitative difference in appearance.

A TV does not produce the same result as a CRT monitor designed for an arcade machine.

Trode wrote:

That said, if I was that concerned with visuals, why would I be playing a 20+ year old game in the first place?

Why? I'm assuming it would be for the same reason that you’re currently posting on an Arcade & Retro based forum. (*EDIT*: Arcade games for JAMMA etc are still in production to this very day so your "20+ year old" statement isn't really valid.) MAME can't hardly emulate modern games that well, if at all. Also, you’re forgetting the fact that the debate in this very thread is based around how well we can replicate arcade games we love / loved. It’s a debate of arcade emulation, not only for oblivious areas like sound and graphics, but also for control, feel and a degree of authenticity.

Emulation:
• ambition to equal or excel
• (computer science) technique of one machine obtaining the same results as another
• effort to equal or surpass another

You’re also forgetting the fact that, further up this thread, I was in FAVOUR of emulation, so long as JAMMA cabs are un-hacked and left original. For example, using a Jpac and Arcade VGA card and plugging your PC straight into the JAMMA connection of a cabinet. This method enables you to:

• Have the choice between plugging in an original arcade pcb into your cab or connecting MAME on your PC.
• Use all original coin mechanisms etc while using MAME
• Maintains the original arcade control panel and wiring (as opposed to an X-arcade copy)
•Allows you to use Hantarex, Wells Gardner etc CRT monitor, just as those games were designed to be played with. (A TV does not produce the same result).

Trode wrote:

Ah, but then you have the Catch-22 of being biased toward the option that cost you the most time/effort/money, because you're naturally inclined to convince yourself it was justified. You can't tell me the difference isn't exaggerated a little in your mind by pride of personal achievement.

You can pick up a JAMMA cabinet easily, and for very little money. I picked mine up for £75, fully working and all ready to go. A friend picked up a 6 button JAMMA cab with “25 monitor for £20. My Sega Turbo OutRun cab? - £75.

time/effort? A quick browse in the Yellow pages, a few phone calls and one day later “bingo!” 

Exaggerated in my mind by pride of personal achievement? ANYONE can pick up a cab for cheap and bring it home. Machines are out there for the taking.

Emcee Kenna

Btw, I would agree with Logie - saying "emulation sucks" is a hell of a sweeping statement. Lovers of old/ classic games would be kinda screwed without emulation. Just think about it, if emulation didn't exist then a countless number of games would be lost in the sands of time. Forever.

It's great that thousands of people can share these games that otherwise would have been lost.

Trode

Emcee Kenna wrote:

I think you were either missing the point there or being very petty.
The point Gamesmaster was putting forward was the fact that you can purchase arcade pcbs for games that have not yet been emulated, not emulated 100% or have been emulated poorly.

Neither, just being obtuse with my own. There is a physical limit to how many arcade cabs one can own, store and operate, so basically any collection of same will also have games missing, and probably more than are currently unavailable through emulation.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

A TV does not produce the same result as a CRT monitor designed for an arcade machine.

I never said it did. I was just illustrating that I am well aware of the inferiority in picture quality between emulated games and the real thing.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Why? I'm assuming it would be for the same reason that you’re currently posting on an Arcade & Retro based forum. (*EDIT*: Arcade games for JAMMA etc are still in production to this very day so your "20+ year old" statement isn't really valid.)

That would be because I enjoy playing the games and like to discuss them with others of similar interests. The imperfections of emulation have never(well, hardly ever) stopped me playing or enjoying those games. (and the 20+ years thing referred to Outrun specifically).

Emcee Kenna wrote:

MAME can't hardly emulate modern games that well, if at all. Also, you’re forgetting the fact that the debate in this very thread is based around how well we can replicate arcade games we love / loved. It’s a debate of arcade emulation, not only for oblivious areas like sound and graphics, but also for control, feel and a degree of authenticity.

I honestly don't see any debate like that framed here, and even if it was, you'd have to be a fool to disagree. Of course emulation doesn't replicate the original games as well as the games themselves do. Noones saying it does. But it's a leap to go from "emulation isn't perfect/isn't as good as the real thing" to "emulation sucks" and is "embarassing to admit to".

Emcee Kenna wrote:

You’re also forgetting the fact that, further up this thread, I was in FAVOUR of emulation, so long as JAMMA cabs are un-hacked and left original. For example, using a Jpac and Arcade VGA card and plugging your PC straight into the JAMMA connection of a cabinet. This method enables you to:

I'm really not sure you were, at least at the time I'd posted the most positive thing you'd said about emulation was "If you MUST do it, at least try not to ruin the cabs for the REAL collectors". Although since we apparently agree(or at least we both agree with LOgie), I don't know why we're arguing.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

You can pick up a JAMMA cabinet easily, and for very little money. I picked mine up for £75, fully working and all ready to go. A friend picked up a 6 button JAMMA cab with “25 monitor for £20. My Sega Turbo OutRun cab? - £75.

time/effort? A quick browse in the Yellow pages, a few phone calls and one day later “bingo!” 

Exaggerated in my mind by pride of personal achievement? ANYONE can pick up a cab for cheap and bring it home. Machines are out there for the taking.

You said yourself it's "a rare piece of gaming history", why wouldn't you be proud to own it? I think you may have taken that last part as an offense, but it's really not. I respect and even commend people buying/restoring old arcades, even more so if they play them and not let them gather dust somewhere as a future Ebay item. What I object to is the slightly snobbish "If you're not going to do it with the same level of commitment as me, then you shouldn't even bother" attitude espoused by the OP and to a lesser extent your first post.

Emcee Kenna

As I said before, the point of this thread was how well we can replicate arcade games, not only for sound and graphics, but also for control, feel and a degree of authenticity. Trode, would you mind sharing your experiences of ‘MAMING’ an arcade machine with us? I’d be keen to hear what your set-up is.

Trode wrote:

There is a physical limit to how many arcade cabs one can own, store and operate, so basically any collection of same will also have games missing, and probably more than are currently unavailable through emulation.

I don’t understand your logic here. There are thousands of games in MAME, why would anyone in their right mind wish to aquire thousands of arcade cabinets?.. As opposed to your ill-informed suggestion, why not buy ONE jamma cab (with working coin mech, CRT monitor etc) and purchase interchangeable pcbs for the select games you really love? At least that way you can still plug a PC (with MAME) into your jamma connection giving you the best of both worlds i.e. the entire MAME list as well as a plethora of games that will never ever be emulated. Fancy a game of King Of Fighters 2003 on MAME? SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos arcade maybe? Good luck to you… It’ll also be a cold day in hell before we see the likes of Guilty Gear XX #Reload, Ikaruga (!!!!!!), Virtua Tennis series etc etc emulated. What would the physical size of the aforementioned games be? They are cartdridges, making the first line of your above statement invalid.

Out of the few thousand games MAME has on offer how many are really worth their salt? Would I be wrong to suggest that a large portion of these games are in fact pure rubbish? Most of us would filter the list down to a few hundred great games and out of that we have a few dozen games that could truly be regarded as real classics. Certain gems possess game play that is timeless and have kept many of gamers coming back for more after all these years. Of course, we could debate forever about what these select classics would be but the fact is, for me personally, there are only a small number of games (pcbs, motherboards & cartridges) that would ever warrant a purchase. Further to that, I would much rather play those select few games (by games I DON’T mean individual cabinets) I love as they were intended – in a real cab with a fully working coin mechanism, real arcade controls, and a CRT monitor. For the remainder of the games on the MAME list all I have to do is plug a PC into my cab as I would a pcb.

Seeing as I mentioned this on my original post something must be lost in translation somewhere…

Trode wrote:

I honestly don't see any debate like that framed here.

The debate is about all arcade emulation – old and new. When is say “modern”, in arcade terms that could be anything from 1993 onwards.

Trode wrote:

But it's a leap to go from "emulation isn't perfect/isn't as good as the real thing" to "emulation sucks" and is "embarassing to admit to"

When exactly did I say “emulation sucks” and is “embarrassing to admit to”? Quote me.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

I first got into emulation back in 1999, but playing the original games in JAMMA cabs or originals is a whole different experience. Trying to emulate the feel of an arcade cabinet by adding X-Arcade controls isn't even close. A bit gimmicky maybe?

…. I don’t go back on anything I originally said.

Trode wrote:

The imperfections of emulation have never (well, hardly ever) stopped me playing or enjoying those games.

Different people seek out different games. Emulation has definitely prevented me from playing a lot of games in my cabinet such as Ikaruga,Virtua Tennis arcade, King Of Fighters 2003, SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos, etc. The only way I can play them in a cabinet is by purchasing Neo Geo & Sega motherboards with the appropriate cartridges. A lot of the arcade games I’m into stem from the Daytona era Sega machines right up to the late 90’s machines. From 1993 onwards companies like Namco and Sega started to heavily encrypt their hardware, meaning arcade emulation really has hit a dead end. A sell by date if you like. Plus, with the global rise in emulation from 1999 onwards this has driven Sega etc even more towards heavy encryption of hardware. Sadly, the only way I will ever be able to play the likes of Daytona, Crazy Taxi, Sega Rally 2, House Of The Dead 2 etc in an arcade cabinet is if I visit an amusement arcade and play them there.

Trode wrote:

the most positive thing you'd said about emulation was "If you MUST do it, at least try not to ruin the cabs for the REAL collectors".

You are twisting words here. I definitely never said that.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

If you do wish to MAME an arcade cab you should at least use a Jpac and Arcade VGA card from Ultimarc. At least that way all the wiring of your JAMMA cab remains untouched / unhacked and all coin mechanisms fully work.

See?

Trode

Emcee Kenna wrote:

As I said before, the point of this thread was how well we can replicate arcade games, not only for sound and graphics, but also for control, feel and a degree of authenticity. Trode, would you mind sharing your experiences of ‘MAMING’ an arcade machine with us? I’d be keen to hear what your set-up is.

The point isn't(or wasn't) 'How well we can replicate the games' it's "This is how well we can replicate them. Anything less is worthless". I disagreed with this, you disagreed with me and here we are.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

....why not buy ONE jamma cab (with working coin mech, CRT monitor etc) and purchase interchangeable pcbs for the select games you really love? At least that way you can still plug a PC (with MAME) into your jamma connection giving you the best of both worlds i.e. the entire MAME list as well as a plethora of games that will never ever be emulated.

Because you're sacrificing authenticity for convenience. There's always going to be a trade-off between the two; sure you have your original cabinet and screen, but don't you miss the artwork on the side? the little special moves list you got on beat-em-up machines? the sounds of a dozen other games beeping and rumbling around you as you play? I'm glad you found a balance that suits you. I don't know why you or anyone has a problem with others just as arbitrarily choosing a different point on that scale.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Out of the few thousand games MAME has on offer how many are really worth their salt? Would I be wrong to suggest that a large portion of these games are in fact pure rubbish? Most of us would filter the list down to a few hundred great games and out of that we have a few dozen games that could truly be regarded as real classics. Certain gems possess game play that is timeless and have kept many of gamers coming back for more after all these years. Of course, we could debate forever about what these select classics would be but the fact is, for me personally, there are only a small number of games (pcbs, motherboards & cartridges) that would ever warrant a purchase. Further to that, I would much rather play those select few games (by games I DON’T mean individual cabinets) I love as they were intended – in a real cab with a fully working coin mechanism, real arcade controls, and a CRT monitor. For the remainder of the games on the MAME list all I have to do is plug a PC into my cab as I would a pcb.

The good-to-crap ratio is the same regardess of the method employed to play them, so even extrapolating 'good games' from 'games' you're still left with a situation where a pure emulation user can have more games drawn from a smaller pool than a pure original hardware user. If you can have both , more power to you, but it's still a case of personal choice as to which is 'better'.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

When exactly did I say “emulation sucks” and is “embarrassing to admit to”? Quote me.

You didn't, the first quote was your position as I understand it, the second the position on which the thread is predicated, and the one with which I disagree. As do you, it seems, so I think we're just quibbling the details.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Different people seek out different games. Emulation has definitely prevented me from playing a lot of games in my cabinet such as Ikaruga,Virtua Tennis arcade, King Of Fighters 2003, SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos, etc. The only way I can play them in a cabinet is by purchasing Neo Geo & Sega motherboards with the appropriate cartridges. A lot of the arcade games I’m into stem from the Daytona era Sega machines right up to the late 90’s machines. From 1993 onwards companies like Namco and Sega started to heavily encrypt their hardware, meaning arcade emulation really has hit a dead end. A sell by date if you like. Plus, with the global rise in emulation from 1999 onwards this has driven Sega etc even more towards heavy encryption of hardware. Sadly, the only way I will ever be able to play the likes of Daytona, Crazy Taxi, Sega Rally 2, House Of The Dead 2 etc in an arcade cabinet is if I visit an amusement arcade and play them there.

Fair point, and one I think I've addressed above.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

You are twisting words here. I definitely never said that.

Apologies if I've misrepresented you.

Emcee Kenna

Trode wrote:

Originally Posted by Emcee Kenna
....why not buy ONE jamma cab (with working coin mech, CRT monitor etc) and purchase interchangeable pcbs for the select games you really love? At least that way you can still plug a PC (with MAME) into your jamma connection giving you the best of both worlds i.e. the entire MAME list as well as a plethora of games that will never ever be emulated.

Trode wrote:

Because you're sacrificing authenticity for convenience. There's always going to be a trade-off between the two; sure you have your original cabinet and screen, but don't you miss the artwork on the side? the little special moves list you got on beat-em-up machines?

Again, I don’t understand the logic here. If you are interchanging original arcade pcbs in an un-hacked jamma cabinet how on earth is that “sacrificing authenticity for convenience”? Especially seeing as all the JAMMA pcbs I own originally came as kit form on their initial release. I could see through it if I was, for example, a Street Fighter II nut and wanted a Capcom FFII jamma cab for collection, restoration purposes. But I’m not. Nor am I obsessive about artwork for 3000+ games I couldn’t give 2 tosses about. My jamma cab plays and sounds exactly like a Capcom JAMMA cab would – the only difference is, as you pointed out, the lack of ‘side art’ stickers and control panel overlay applied.

The artwork, marques, and “special moves lists” you talk of can be bought for very little money and changed easily. Marques and instruction sheets can be bought from around £3 upwards so if I really wanted to change the artwork THAT badly I’d pop on the appropriate marquee etc to suit the game I was playing – just like arcade operators all over the country did. Side art? That can be purchased as well. Think back to amusement arcades, chippies, snooker halls etc from the mid 80’s – 90’s. All of the pcbs for the games I chose to purchase (shinobi, double dragon, cabal etc) were predominantly played in generic jamma cabs. Sometimes an arcade operator *might* make an effort and pop on an instruction sheet or marquee, but more times than not it didn’t happen. Even in more recent times with more modern arcades this approach still prevails – Virtua Tennis, Virtue Fighter 4 etc etc are all played in the same type of generic Sega Naomi cabinets or JAMMA setup.

As a matter of fact, in my 29 years I have never ever seen (in the flesh) or played dedicated arcade cabinets of Cabal, Double Dragon, Double Dragon II, Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, Shinobi, WWF Superstars, Champion Wrestler or New Zealand Story. These are all pcbs / kits I own – if I never experienced playing them in dedicated cabs in the first place, why would I feel a need to buy a dedicated cab for each game now?

I remember seeing dedicated cabs for (games I own) Street Fighter II, Bubble Bobble and Pac Mania and although I thought It was cool, I never felt compelled enough to want to go out and buy dedicated cabinets for each!! Bubble Bobble just basically generic looking Romstar cab with Romstar stickers applied to the sides. I was more than chuffed to play them as I saw them in most cases – generic jamma cabs.

On the flip side I do own 3 dedicated cabs, all of which are for games that completely blew my mind in the 80’s and didn’t conform to JAMMA standard. Pole Position II and Turbo OutRun are currenly in storage – it was either pick them up or let an arcade operator scrap them. :’(
OutRun gets regularly played in the house and my reason for buying it was the fact that I was always a huge fan of the game – I must have tried out that game just about every format over the years. I played it through the System 16 emulator for ages and then, later on, MAME did it even better again. However, it still wasn’t OutRun like I played it in the arcades – the controls weren’t right, there was no force feedback steering or shaker motor, no flashing start button, coin mechanisms, gear shifter, gas pedal controls and my 15” PC monitor just didn’t cut it. A PC keyboard didn’t cut it either. Undisputedly, it was a different experience from the game I played in my local snooker hall. I realised that if I really did want to play OutRun like I remembered it, I’d have to acquire the original machine. Contrary to what you may think, there is a huge difference between playing an OutRun arcade machine and playing it in MAME using a keyboard and a PC monitor. With the controls alone there is a world of difference between each. In the same way, if someone was a huge fan of Sega Rally how would you propose they play it without either visiting an amusement arcade or buying the original game?

My OutRun cab also allows me to play Turbo OutRun, Power Drift and Super Monaco GP. Although I was a big fan of Power Drift and Super Monaco GP I never loved them enough to want to keep original cabs of each or care about their sideart! Just playing the original pcbs in an original Sega cabinet was more than enough for me, especially since they control, look sound, and play exactly as they would in another Sega cab. MAME prevented me from achieving this all along.

Trode wrote:

don't you miss the sounds of a dozen other games beeping and rumbling around you as you play?

To be fair, I think aiming for that is way over the top! The natural habitat for arcade machines was never ever confined to just seaside towns where amusement parks featured dozens of machines all rowed up. Pubs, hotels, shops, take-away chippies, malls, snooker halls etc etc all played host to arcade machines. A lot of the time they had one or two, sometimes more.

Trode wrote:

The good-to-crap ratio is the same regardess of the method employed to play them, so even extrapolating 'good games' from 'games' you're still left with a situation where a pure emulation user can have more games drawn from a smaller pool than a pure original hardware user. If you can have both , more power to you, but it's still a case of personal choice as to which is 'better'.

So a user of original pcbs can’t use emulation if he/she wishes to? That’s a bit of a strange rule to come up with. Surely it’s the original hardware user who has more choice seeing as he can play BOTH.

*EDIT* The original hardware user has more choice since he/she can play BOTH (hardware & emulation), all within an original JAMMA arcade machine.**

Since I’ve pointed this out a few times already something is still going over someones head here…

B00MSTICK

I disagree

Trode

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Again, I don’t understand the logic here. If you are interchanging original arcade pcbs in an un-hacked jamma cabinet how on earth is that “sacrificing authenticity for convenience”? Especially seeing as all the JAMMA pcbs I own originally came as kit form on their initial release. I could see through it if I was, for example, a Street Fighter II nut and wanted a Capcom FFII jamma cab for collection, restoration purposes. But I’m not. Nor am I obsessive about artwork for 3000+ games I couldn’t give 2 tosses about. My jamma cab plays and sounds exactly like a Capcom JAMMA cab would – the only difference is, as you pointed out, the lack of ‘side art’ stickers and control panel overlay applied.

But this theoretical Street Fighter nut could come up to you and say "You really HAVE to play it with the original art, it completely transforms the experience. Not doing so is STUPID and WRONG". As I said, I'm glad you have a setup that suits you, but you have to admit there's a point where you say "that's accurate enough for my liking". Other people may simply find that point at more or less accuracy than you. As long as they're not taking that opinion as fact, what's wrong with that?

Emcee Kenna wrote:

So a user of original pcbs can’t use emulation if he/she wishes to? That’s a bit of a strange rule to come up with. Surely it’s the original hardware user who has more choice seeing as he can play BOTH.

*EDIT* The original hardware user has more choice since he/she can play BOTH (hardware & emulation), all within an original JAMMA arcade machine.**

I said "If you can have both, more power to you". But the fact that you see using both as a viable option means both have merits, which is what I've been driving at all along.

Emcee Kenna wrote:

Since I’ve pointed this out a few times already something is still going over someones head here…

Please stop being patronising. I haven't assumed that you're stupid because we disagree, I'd ask the same courtesy of you.

Emcee Kenna

Trode wrote:

But this theoretical Street Fighter nut could come up to you and say "You really HAVE to play it with the original art, it completely transforms the experience. Not doing so is STUPID and WRONG".

Of course, seeing a Capcom SFII in action would be a great experience >>> see "for collection and restoration purposes". 9 out of 10 times SFII arcade (like all jamma standard games of the time) came as a single pcb or kit form anyway so.. A Marquee, sideart & decals are cheap as chips. Still, I personally find it to be a more enjoyable experience than playing it with a keyboard, 15" PC monitor, I/0 controls that are off and no coin mechanisms… But hey, that’s just me.

Trode wrote:

the fact that you see using both as a viable option means both have merits, which is what I've been driving at all along.

I never disputed the fact that both (original hardware & emulation) have merits. Arcade emulation boasts many merits – depending on your set-up, providing the same experience that you would get from a real cabinet with working coin mechs etc isn’t one of those merits. This has been my point all along.


I sincerely apologise for the patronising manner of my last post. Perhaps we should agree to disagree on this one, eh?

KdjaCL

I ripped apart a Sf2 Jamma cab to put in an Xbox Ps2 and Laptop running off Hori Sticks which will be mounted onto the front.

Ps2 and Xbox for decent fighting newish games.

Laptop for Mame and many many other emulators.


I think its just dandy


kdjac

Trode

Emcee Kenna wrote:

I sincerely apologise for the patronising manner of my last post. Perhaps we should agree to disagree on this one, eh?

At this point I'm not 100% sure about what we disagree on anymore, so yeah, probably best to leave it.

KdjaCL

Trode wrote:

At this point I'm not 100% sure about what we disagree on anymore, so yeah, probably best to leave it.

Its simple, one machine for all or many machines for all.


kdjac