Inaccurate reporting(aka blatant ignorance)

newby.204

This is just a small rant on the so called intelligence/ignorance of just about every reporter/newsreader in this country!!!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1025/cork.html

Search follows series of incidents in Cork

25 October 2006 12:38
Gardaí are hunting for a sniper who used a high-powered gun or catapult to open fire on at least nine properties and vehicles in Co Cork yesterday.

The three-hour rampage began at lunchtime in Kinsale where plate glass windows at the front of the Trident Hotel were fired upon.

Over the course of the afternoon windscreens and side panels on a number of vehicles, including a school bus in Innishannon, were damaged.

Damage was also caused to glass on the front door of a number of houses in Crosshaven, Carrigaline and in Togher in Cork city.

How hard is is to understand basic terminology when it comes to firearms, How hard is it to do your job and accurately report events. First of all the medias use of the word "sniper" is laughable. Its a joke that these people are depended upon to provide up to date "accurate" information on current events in the world!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper
A sniper is an infantry soldier who specializes in shooting from concealment or longer ranges than regular infantry, often with a specially designed or adapted sniper rifle. It requires skill in field craft, camouflage and marksmanship.


And the second part of this little rant, HIGH-POWERED GUN OR CATAPULT. My good god the ignorance, whoever wrote this deserves to appear on such intellectually challenged programmes as trisha, ricki lake or some other hick tv programme!!, or maybe take a trip back to third class and start again, maybe pick a carreer where IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY are appreciated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun, the link will demonstrate what a high powered gun is, and anybody with the most minute shred of intelligence will know that a GUN is NOTHING LIKE a CATAPULT.

mike65

When a projectile of some sort coming flying though a window a high speed most people are'nt debating 'is it a rifle or a catapult?' they are too shocked. As the miscreant resposible has'nt been caught no-one actualy knows what was used so its reasonable to include two likely possibilities. As for sniper, well thats OTT - gunman/men would be more accurate. If no more reassuring.

The lastest from the scene as I type is that the Garda are talking of a pellet gun/air rifle.

Mike.

Sparks

No-one's asking the people shot at to use the right terminology.
We're asking that the people whose job it is to report the incident use the right terminology - something that is a part of their job description in the first place.

humanji

There are some types of catapults that are incredibly powerful and can do the same amount of damage as a basic bullet. And since it just happened, the full information isn't available, so they don't know if any bullets or casings were found.
The fact is the reporter has no idea what happened and is just piecing together what information they've gotten from third parties. As the day goes on, the details will become clearer.

Sparks

There are some types of catapults that are incredibly powerful and can do the same amount of damage as a basic bullet.

Correct. They were usually used in seiges, as I recall, and were dozens of feet on a side and a dozen feet in height or more.
Somehow I doubt that's what we're talking about here. This is some kid with a black widow hand catapult and a bag of ball bearings, not a sniper.

Eoin

While it does sound very sensationalist; it's probably best to check a dictionary if you want to get semantic about it, rather than a reference that can be updated by anyone with an internet connection. The wikipedia definition is very narrow, and even makes a distinction between a sharpshooter and a sniper.

dictionary.com includes (along with a similar one to the wikipedia definition) the following definition:

2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

newby.204

eoin_s wrote:

While it does sound very sensationalist; it's probably best to check a dictionary if you want to get semantic about it, rather than a reference that can be updated by anyone with an internet connection. The wikipedia definition is very narrow, and even makes a distinction between a sharpshooter and a sniper.

dictionary.com includes (along with a similar one to the wikipedia definition) the following definition:

Although wiki can be updated by anyone it gives the most accurate description of what a sniper is. A sniper is not someone with a rifle who shoots at people/objects. A sniper is a highly trained individual, they are trained in many areas before being put into the field. Working alone or as a member of a two man team whos task isnt merely "shooting" at people, they are tasked with assination(a task which involves the mastering of several skills in order to successfully complete a mission) and several other roles; reconnaisance roles, observation and target designation, support roles. To describe some yob with an airgun or CATAPULT, no less, as a sniper is laughable and poor journalism. It also shows the sensationalist tendencies of the media and a poor grasp of the skills/training involved in becoming a military sniper. The medias overall grasp, with a few exceptions, of firearms is a joke and the poor details in articles/news pieces is aimed at scare mongering and, quite frankly, idiots. To even compare a catapult to an airgun, balistically or otherwise, is again a joke.

Eoin

newby.204 wrote:

Although wiki can be updated by anyone it gives the most accurate description of what a sniper is. A sniper is not someone with a rifle who shoots at people/objects. A sniper is a highly trained individual, they are trained in many areas before being put into the field. Working alone or as a member of a two man team whos task isnt merely "shooting" at people, they are tasked with assination(a task which involves the mastering of several skills in order to successfully complete a mission) and several other roles; reconnaisance roles, observation and target designation, support roles. To describe some yob with an airgun or CATAPULT, no less, as a sniper is laughable and poor journalism. It also shows the sensationalist tendencies of the media and a poor grasp of the skills/training involved in becoming a military sniper. The medias overall grasp, with a few exceptions, of firearms is a joke and the poor details in articles/news pieces is aimed at scare mongering and, quite frankly, idiots. To even compare a catapult to an airgun, balistically or otherwise, is again a joke.

As I said, I do think it was sensationalist - but the wikipedia definition is very narrow. It makes the distinction between a marksman and a sniper, which I would say the vast majority of people would not make. The Cambridge dictionary and dictionary.com both include "to shoot at someone from a position where you cannot be seen" as a definition for sniper. I agree with what you're saying, but if you're going to be pendatic about the definition, then you have to at least consider dictionary definitions.

newby.204

eoin_s wrote:

As I said, I do think it was sensationalist - but the wikipedia definition is very narrow. It makes the distinction between a marksman and a sniper, which I would say the vast majority of people would not make. The Cambridge dictionary and dictionary.com both include "to shoot at someone from a position where you cannot be seen" as a definition for sniper. I agree with what you're saying, but if you're going to be pendatic about the definition, then you have to at least consider dictionary definitions.

Sorry i misunderstood what you said. To the layman there is no distinction, ill agree there, however i personally believe that as journalists, they should do there utmost to educate readers and make that distinction. Ill take your point that the definition in the dictionary is accurate in the broad sense of what a "sniper" does and one shouldnt rely on only one source of information, wiki simply suited my needs for the point i was trying to get across. Its nice to have intelligent debate on the subject without a narrow minded/biased opinion on the matter.

jdivision

newby.204 wrote:

Sorry i misunderstood what you said. To the layman there is no distinction, ill agree there, however i personally believe that as journalists, they should do there utmost to educate readers and make that distinction. Ill take your point that the definition in the dictionary is accurate in the broad sense of what a "sniper" does and one shouldnt rely on only one source of information, wiki simply suited my needs for the point i was trying to get across. Its nice to have intelligent debate on the subject without a narrow minded/biased opinion on the matter.

Wikipedia definitions can't be taken seriously. Separately, given the information and the terminology was also used on ireland.com iirc, it is likely that it was provided by the Garda Press Office.

humanji

Sparks wrote:

Correct. They were usually used in seiges, as I recall, and were dozens of feet on a side and a dozen feet in height or more.
Somehow I doubt that's what we're talking about here. This is some kid with a black widow hand catapult and a bag of ball bearings, not a sniper.

A black widow could easily break a window with the right amount of force applied. A sniper doesn't have to have a rifle to be labelled a sniper. The article does seem to conjure some image of a highly trained soldier dressed in a guilly suit, hiding in a bush, but from what was done it seems obvious that it was a kid/group of kids with something similar to a catapult or airgun. It's just a slow news day I guess.

Has anyone heard any update on the story btw?

newby.204

humanji wrote:

A black widow could easily break a window with the right amount of force applied. A sniper doesn't have to have a rifle to be labelled a sniper. The article does seem to conjure some image of a highly trained soldier dressed in a guilly suit, hiding in a bush, but from what was done it seems obvious that it was a kid/group of kids with something similar to a catapult or airgun. It's just a slow news day I guess.

Has anyone heard any update on the story btw?

In reference to the emboldened section of text and with all due respect, MY GOOD GOD WHAT NOW??? A sniper doesnt have to have a rifle to be labeled a sniper?? in what context are you using the word sniper????

humanji

newby.204 wrote:

In reference to the emboldened section of text and with all due respect, MY GOOD GOD WHAT NOW??? A sniper doesnt have to have a rifle to be labeled a sniper?? in what context are you using the word sniper????

From the dictionary terms that say:

One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.

a marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place

A sniper doesn't have to ahve a gun. Technically, they don't even need a weapon, only a preojectile(in that their arm could be counted as the weapon, but that's just getting pedantic and is open to interpretation).

My point being that the article seems to be trying to sensationalise the story by giving the impression that it's a professional hitman out to get people, when it's more likely some kids having fun.

r3nu4l

In fairness Wilipedia does imply that the military definition of a gun is different to the normal definition!

Also H&K refer to their handheld pistols as 'Handguns' so are you going to complain to them about their definition of a gun? I think they'll simply laugh at you!

Also there are fully trained specialist snipers and there are idiots with rifles who lie in wait and act as 'snipers', so I think that using the word 'sniper' is okay to describe the actions of someone who may be mimicing the action of a sniper.

Besides, if I lived in the area I would prefer an early warning of something happening in the area that can be corrected as information is gathered, than no information at all until the Newsdesk gets all the available information.

I hate lazy reporting but breaking news is different to a prepared broadcast.

Hobbes

I don't see the issue tbh. I've seen what a high powered catapault can do and they be just as deadly as gun.

As for sniping, it generally infers attacking from a conceled position (not always at range).

Clare gunner

Story update;These three were arrested last week somtime.Three teen morons with a car,a catapult and nothing to do expect make trouble. No deadly trained snipers there.