RTE Prime Time report on Young Drivers needs your help!

mike65

Hi

I got a PM from Ken O'Shea who is a Prime Time reporter, he is doing a piece for Tuedsays programme and is looking for input from young drivers,

Here is his letter with contact details

request from Prime Time
To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Ken O’Shea and I am a reporter with Prime Time, RTE’s Current Affairs TV programme. I am making a pre-recorded package for tomorrow night’s show (Tuesday 24th) on road safety.

As you are no doubt aware, there is an ongoing debate on introducing severe restrictions on young drivers, in light of the ongoing road fatalities situation.
The Govt, opposition politicians, Gardai, road safety bodies, and members of the public all seem to be in agreement that there should be a crackdown on young drivers – particularly those who have an interest in modified/tuned-up cars.

Amongst the measures are speed limiters/restrictions on the types of cars young drivers could be licensed for etc.

I think it is vital to include some voices of the people who would be directly affected by such measures – young drivers and those with an interest in modified cars.

However, finding such people in a short time frame is not an easy task.
Basically, I am writing to anybody I can find on the Net who seems to have an interest in this area to see if you could help me with any of the following:

• would you and/or your friends be prepared to talk to Prime Time about the realities of being a young driver and your view on the best way to cut road deaths?
• Do you know of anybody who might be interested in talking to us?
• Do you know of any clubs/societies which might have a representative who would be willing to talk to us on this subject?
• Do you know of any other message boards where I could contact people on this issue?
• Do you have any recommendations on who I should talk to on this subject?

Please forgive the somewhat scattergun approach of writing to you like this but in the past when we have covered this story we have had loads of input from the various ‘suits’ and politicians but we have yet to hear the voices of the people really affected by this and I am determined to avoid that unsatisfactory situation this time around.

As it is for tomorrow night’s show, time is of the essence here. So if you can offer me any help, it would be very much appreciated.

I realise that there are issues surrounding the Internet in terms of being 100% sure of who you are talking to so you can contact me in the ways listed below, to confirm who I am.

Ken O’Shea.
Reporter
Prime Time

RTE Main number: 2083111. (Ask for Ken O’Shea in Prime Time.)
Desk phone: 01-2083157, Mobile: 087-9874966. Email: osheak@rte.ie

You can also log onto the Prime Time area on www.rte.ie/primetime and if you look in the archive section you will see that I did a report on Iraq for last Thursday’s show.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any help you could offer me would be very much appreciated.

Given my age I said I'd not be much use (except as Grumpy Old Man) so I'm posting this for anyone in Dublin who can help at short notice.

Mike.

layke

Yo Mike,

Check the modded car forum.

mike65

Not everyone reads the Modded forum (myself included! ).

Mike.

Rudolph Claus

None of the cars in them horrific crashes over the weekend were modified cars and its very few modified cars that are in these crashes so why afre they being used as a scapegoat.

The monaghan crash were 2 golfs, both standard but the crash happened at 2:30am. No need to guess what happened there. If they`d clamp down on drink drivers and sort out a proper driving test system it might actually do something.

All this talk and blame of modified cars is a joke. Theres some amount of girls on provisionals these days that cant drive to save their lives(no pun intended) and they`re getting insured for little or nothing on provisionals.

If that rte primetime lad makes modified cars look like the real culprit in this farce then expect to see no change in road deaths as this is not the main issue that needs tackling. The government is whinging about 3/400 deaths(pretty reasonable in my opinion with a population of 5million) but still do not have a proper test in place so what do they expect of drivers?? This affects ALL drivers, not just males under 25 who are going to be made the scpegoat yet again judging by that PM Ken oShea or whatever his name is, sent Mike65.

---

Ive since read these spas were playing chicken in that monaghan crash. No doubt primetime will still march on with a brillant story on young drivers, blaming young drivers will get good ratings.

mike65

To be fair he has sought out opinion from the coal-face so to speak so they can put him right on a few things.

Mike.

louie

You can't really win with the politicians. They probably have their mind made up toward the "young driver" and "modified cars". Anyhow, is worth a try, cause they need to be told that not all "young" drivers are the same and because one or two, you can not put everybody in the same boat. Few weeks back example, with the video camera was terrible, but means nothing.

I thing the talk should be directed to provisional licence drivers, not
toward supped cars, etc.

Stephen

/sends email about being sick of being painted with the same brush as 20-year-old muppets racing and playing chicken.

kluivert

Stephen wrote:

/sends email about being sick of being painted with the same brush as 20-year-old muppets racing and playing chicken.

Please get your facts right firstly as you maybe surprised who is reading your posts.

Playing chicken was devised by gossip and papers.

Am 23 years old and sick of the same issues arising again and again while the real issues at hand get brushed under the table. Tyical pick the easy scape goat and run with that.

Drinking driving caused that accident on Saturday night, nothing else.

The town I live in Monaghan is a good spot for people to go out at the weekends.

Majority of people who go out at the weekends drive home drunk. You have two Gardas standing outside the main nite club in the town, and you can clearly see drunk people getting into cars and driving off. You tell the cars tehy say that theres a squad patrolling and they will notify them.

Too late! The damage could already be done.

Second point, country pubs. For you boys that dont live in Dublin, most country pubs have car parks in the field next to the pub, 99.99% of people going to these pubs will drink and drive.

Thirdly, A Uk car has more air bags and safety features and the Irish car, the reason for this as we all now about on boards is the fact the there is VRT on safety features. Remove VRT on Air Bags, traction control, stability controls, and you never who, it might save a life or two. I am shocked that people will pay extra for fancy wheels and not two extra air bags. Not only that but you cant even order cars in this country no more. Its what ever comes in from the distributors.

Fourth, Driver education, I have been driving three years now and wrote off my first car after two months, I when I crashed into a ditch at 50mph. I put the left hand side of the car onto a grassy wet verge on the side of the road and the car spun out of control. Now, when and where do they teach you how to handle manuovers to help you get out of these situations. I would mind but I took 10 driving licenses before buying my first car. Driver Ed must be made compulsory, my GF took one lesson right before her test and pasted. She was thought to drive by her father and me.

Fifth, the state of the roads is a joke, if anyone knows the old bog road from Carrickmacross to Dundalk they know that the council keep dressing that road for no reason what so ever. It was perfect a couple of months ago and they put down dressing on top of it and now its dangerous to drive on. It fact there was a head on colluison on it last month. The loose stones and 10 foot drop each side of the road make it dangerous spot. Country roads have grass verges - why. As i found out there is very little room for error especially when it is wet. Why is there no cats eyes on country roads.

I drive in the UK three four times a year and its a joy, proper motorways, roads and their country roads is like our National roads.

One last thing to look at, is driver attitudes, it stinks. Maybe its just peoples attitudes in general, but they are so many near misses these days from general observation that I am surprised that there is not more people killed on the roads. We all have to share the roads so lets not try and kill each other or ourselves.

How come they never release a toxicology report after post mortum to see if the driver was drinking at the time. Its time for this government to step up and stop pumping money into white elephants and start investing in proper infrasturuture that this country needs so badly.

I know a number of young people who have died on our roads and it really makes you think twice why people drink and drive. Its a shame and very sad.

po0k

Education, Enforcement and Engineering.
We have lots of Enforcement and legislation and little or none of the other two.
I'm glad to hear that a probationary period is to be brought in, but to be brutally honest, most of the roads in Ireland are a disgrace. Some can be excused for historical reasons, but the number of times roads near my house have been "repaired" by the Council and last maybe 6 months before going to the dogs.
The irony of "Accident Black Spot" signs annoys me greatly: why put up a sign? Why not change the ****ing road so it's nolonger a root cause in accidents on that stretch of road? We shouldn't have nearly as many blind bends on country roads as we do.

When will the advertising campaign target the 40-year-old dentist/doctor/barrister? I know of quite a few 30-40 year old women whom I would be loathe to accept a lift from because of their driving.

To lay the blame squarely at the feet of under-25 male drivers is short-sighted. You're just moving the problem of experience back to a later date.
Why not proactively tackle the problem? Introduce driver theory and practicals as part of the leaving cert cycle - not a points-contributing exam, but ran in parallel. And don't fecking whinge about money, that's what the state are supposed to do.

maidhc

kluivert wrote:

Drinking driving caused that accident on Saturday night, nothing else.

.....


Second point, country pubs. For you boys that dont live in Dublin, most country pubs have car parks in the field next to the pub, 99.99% of people going to these pubs will drink and drive.

Firstly:
1) The pub culture in the country pubs in GONE. No one goes to them, they are empty at weekend, and are being sold left right and center for development. Virtually NOBODY drink drives in the countryside any more. The penalty of loosing the car is too great, especially when the No. 7 bus doesn't stop outside your door in a fancy part of Dublin.

2) Those that drink and drive may well kill a pedestrian or fail to stop at a junction, but generally won't try the mupperty that went on in monaghan, that requires something else: stupidity.

Blut

All this talk of new measures in light of the recent accident seems rather silly, the accident would have happened regardless of what laws are in place. If someone is stupid enough to play chicken theyre going to do it regardless of whatever laws theyre breaking. The government would be better off trying to actually enforce provisional license laws as they are or else reforming country roads, however both of these would require proper work while all this talk of fancy new initiatives will impress the voters now and fade safely into the background in a few weeks...

gyppo

kluivert wrote:

Please get your facts right firstly as you maybe surprised who is reading your posts.

Playing chicken was devised by gossip and papers.

I agree with you on this - the posts on this forum appear to have been based on speculation, innuendo and gossip, not factual information. The fact that the 5th person has died will mean that no-one will be able to give a totally accurate account of what did happen.
Were there any 3rd party witnesses to this incident?

kluivert wrote:

How come they never release a toxicology report after post mortum to see if the driver was drinking at the time.

They do. It is reported at a coroners court when the inquest is heard.

ateam

Generally Irish people, provisional and fully licensed are bad drivers.

interested

maidhc wrote:

Firstly:
1) The pub culture in the country pubs in GONE. No one goes to them, they are empty at weekend, and are being sold left right and center for development. Virtually NOBODY drink drives in the countryside any more. The penalty of loosing the car is too great, especially when the No. 7 bus doesn't stop outside your door in a fancy part of Dublin.

2) Those that drink and drive may well kill a pedestrian or fail to stop at a junction, but generally won't try the mupperty that went on in monaghan, that requires something else: stupidity.

Pretty interested to read your first point. And was wondering if this was just your opinion or do you know of any statistics or details presented by anyone to back this up.

According to articles in yesterdays papers and results from the RSA presented on the news there were 900 people arrested as a direct result of the random breath tests in the last 2 weeks. I would dearly like to see a breakdown of where these arrests took place throughout the country. And a similar breakdown to where the 300 or so fatalities so far this year from road traffic accidents are occuring.

If people arent drinking in pubs in the country and driving home then are they having alcohol at home and just driving around at night for fun ?
You're entitled to your opinion but I personally dont believe people that live in irish cities or the countryside dont drink and drive.

Nearly 1000 people caught at random checkpoints in two weeks draws pretty clear conclusion.

maidhc

interested wrote:

Pretty interested to read your first point. And was wondering if this was just your opinion or do you know of any statistics or details presented by anyone to back this up.

I live in the countryside, and have observed a massive decline in people in the numbers who frequent their local watering holes. Anyone I talk to is terrified of getting caught as they need their car to get to work. Ona given saturday night most place locally are deserted, wheras 5 years ago or less they would have been buzzing!

It may just be the part of east cork where I live. Of course some people are chancing it away, but lots of people will not, even batchelor farmers who had nothing all week to look forward to except going out on a saturday night for a game of cards and a few pints don't go out anymore.

interested

maidhc wrote:

I live in the countryside, and have observed a massive decline in people in the numbers who frequent their local watering holes. Anyone I talk to is terrified of getting caught as they need their car to get to work. Ona given saturday night most place locally are deserted, wheras 5 years ago or less they would have been buzzing!

It may just be the part of east cork where I live. Of course some people are chancing it away, but lots of people will not, even batchelor farmers who had nothing all week to look forward to except going out on a saturday night for a game of cards and a few pints don't go out anymore.

Thanks for that. And its great to hear that theres a massive decline in your area. What is scary is that - in your words - its peoples fear of getting caught as they need their cars for work.

should it not be more like people should respect other road users and their own lives and realise that driving a car when under the influence of alchocol or whatever is seriously selfish - whether the guards are checking for drink drivers or not.

From the opinion you expressed it sounds as if it will actually require a guard outside every pub to stop those still chancing it - or when the media attention switches to something else or the guards get drafted elsewhere to patrol traffic jams.

kluivert

maidhc wrote:

I live in the countryside, and have observed a massive decline in people in the numbers who frequent their local watering holes. Anyone I talk to is terrified of getting caught as they need their car to get to work. Ona given saturday night most place locally are deserted, wheras 5 years ago or less they would have been buzzing!

Are you serious. I totally disagree with this. I know one spot in Louth and there is three country pubs within a mile of each other and every weekend they are packed out. I counted 15 cars outside the first, 10 outside the second and 6 oustide the third one night on my way to the cinema. Then there is another pub I pasted on the road, there was at least six cars outside it, then three miles after that pub there is another pub and restraurant with at least 20 cars outside.

On the way home from the late film all these pubs car parks where empty.

I agree with the above poster, afraid of losing their car as they need it for work - that refers to my point in my first point about driver attitides being screwed up in this country, so what are you saying if they didnt need the car for work they would drink and drive.

DRINKING AND DRIVING ARE THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DIE ON OUR ROADS.

Drinking leads to speeding and inability to concentrate which leads to car crashes and accidents and finally deaths.

jhegarty

the solution to the problems is simple...

You make sure no one can drive from anywhere to anywhere between 11pm and 5am without getting stopped for a drink check... You sould have 100% of n-roads with a stop on them , and random stops on back roads....

If that doesn't drop the deaths by 30-50% I will eat my hat.....

ambro25

So, Mike (and Boardsies) - did that nice gentleman from RTE get any help for tonight's piece?

For what it's worth (not much I know, but what the...),

I've lived in Dublin 2 years an a bit now, I've been driving 17+ years all over the place (Iraq was the scariest - back in '86, before all that bad sh*t) and drive and bike it plenty around here, and I find most young guys driving tuned cars some of the most road-aware, considerate and downright decent drivers about.

I'd certainly put more faith in the graphic'd Type R following me to stop in time if I have to emergency break, than a D4/D6 soccer mom in her 4WD city panzer or a 50-something driving in his permanently-intercom'd boardroom

hawker

kluivert wrote:

Are you serious. I totally disagree with this. I know one spot in Louth and there is three country pubs within a mile of each other and every weekend they are packed out. I counted 15 cars outside the first, 10 outside the second and 6 oustide the third one night on my way to the cinema. Then there is another pub I pasted on the road, there was at least six cars outside it, then three miles after that pub there is another pub and restraurant with at least 20 cars outside.

On the way home from the late film all these pubs car parks where empty.

I agree with the above poster, afraid of losing their car as they need it for work - that refers to my point in my first point about driver attitides being screwed up in this country, so what are you saying if they didnt need the car for work they would drink and drive.

DRINKING AND DRIVING ARE THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DIE ON OUR ROADS.

Drinking leads to speeding and inability to concentrate which leads to car crashes and accidents and finally deaths.

And I totally disagree wityh your point. Do you really think that EVERYONE who drives to a pub is actually drinking alcohol? Did you ever hear of a designated driver? Did you ever think that maybe a wife/brother/sister have collected the car?

There are numerous reasons why a car park could be less full than earlier in the night. In my local there used to be a few people who would have had 3/4 pints and driven home. Now it's a different story - they are collected, get a taxi or are lucky enough to have a designated driver or barman to drop them home.

Certainly it has not affected the trade of my local which is a 'country'ish pub. To the poster above who counted the cars while passing the pub - you'll never get done for speeding if you can count 15 of them while driving past. Tall tales?

This bulls*** about 'country' pubs having a huge drink driving population is certainly something that might have happened a few years ago. Yes it's still happens (in every pub) in very small numbers, but it's certainly not as bad as some people make it out to be.

kluivert

hawker wrote:

Certainly it has not affected the trade of my local which is a 'country'ish pub. To the poster above who counted the cars while passing the pub - you'll never get done for speeding if you can count 15 of them while driving past. Tall tales?

Ok its not like I stopped to count, it was a rough guess. I have heard of people who go to pubs and dont drink but pull the other one ok, people go to a pub to drink and socialise and the only way to get to a pub is walk for a half hour or drive it 5 minutes.

Ill be watching the programme to see what views are shared. Questions and Answers last night basicly put the blame on young drivers without actually stating it.

daveg

I live out in the country as well and I totally agree with Kluivert. I actually live across the road from the local pub and I can tell you that the car park is "packed" every Fri/Sat/Sun night and it is empty the following morning.

hawker wrote:

ADo you really think that EVERYONE who drives to a pub is actually drinking alcohol? Did you ever hear of a designated driver? Did you ever think that maybe a wife/brother/sister have collected the car?

Hawker I think you are deluded. The attitude of the average country farmer is it is ok to go for a few pints (ie 6 or 7) and drive home afterwards. Do you think there drinking coke in the pub? I've drank in their myself and there are not many drinking coke.

As someone previously said the only way to stop drink driving and start reducing the deaths on our roads is to make it so that if you drive after the pub you will have 100% chance of being stopped and breathalised by a garda.

hawker

daveg wrote:

I live out in the country as well and I totally agree with Kluivert. I actually live across the road from the local pub and I can tell you that the car park is "packed" every Fri/Sat/Sun night and it is empty the following morning.



Hawker I think you are deluded. The attitude of the average country farmer is it is ok to go for a few pints (ie 6 or 7) and drive home afterwards. Do you think there drinking coke in the pub? I've drank in their myself and there are not many drinking coke.

As someone previously said the only way to stop drink driving and start reducing the deaths on our roads is to make it so that if you drive after the pub you will have 100% chance of being stopped and breathalised by a garda.

Hold on now mate, I NEVER said that it does not happen. I know for a fact in my local that I know of no one now that has a few drinks and drives home after. But I'm sure there are a few pubs that you have the odd fool who actually doesn't see any problem with it. However you cannot tar every so called country pub with the same brush.

My point is that this racket is not as prevalant as it was in previous years. The times are changing.

For the record, I think it's no coincidence that most of the fatalities over the weekend have been young men. I see it every day where you meet some tool with a huge exhaust with his foot to the floor showing off because his car is noisier that yours. In my opinion the majority of these drivers are idiots who should not be in charge of a car.

kluivert

hawker wrote:

For the record, I think it's no coincidence that most of the fatalities over the weekend have been young men. I see it every day where you meet some tool with a huge exhaust with his foot to the floor showing off because his car is noisier that yours. In my opinion the majority of these drivers are idiots who should not be in charge of a car.

The lastest road death was a man who crashed into a wall at 3am in the morning.

I dont know that facts of the case but if its pretty hard to kill yourself driving into a wall, that has never been a cause for concern before. It doesnt add up, either drinking or/and speeding. But why and how does one hit a wall so hard to kill themselves.

I again disagree with the above statement, I have meet people in their 40 50's with no driving skills that it makes you wonder how they past their test and is followed by "and they always blame young drivers". This is especially noted when you see some ass driving on the rear bumper of a learner driver, again attitude problems.

I would love you to come to my home town, there is more suped up cars than standard cars. And they dont go tearing up and down the town with there loud exhaust. These cars are nicely modified and some real Jap stunners such as Nissan Silva Toyota Supras and Celcias and off course. They park up and chat to each other the whole night long. Its their hobby, they dont drink and drive or drive dangerously.

layke

kluivert if you did that in Dublin some guards would come along and move you on.

gyppo

hawker wrote:

For the record, I think it's no coincidence that most of the fatalities over the weekend have been young men.

kluivert wrote:

I again disagree with the above statement, I have meet people in their 40 50's with no driving skills that it makes you wonder how they past their test and is followed by "and they always blame young drivers". This is especially noted when you see some ass driving on the rear bumper of a learner driver, again attitude problems.

Kluivert, I have to agree that hawker has a point. Most fatalities that occur during weekends in the early hours are young men. The statistics are there.

However, I agree that there are people of all ages with no driving skills worth talking about - similarly there are people of all ages who overstimate their driving skills, oftem with fatal outcomes.

kluivert

Still be interested in watching the programme and see what results come from it.

There is a car park in my home town and its only a max of four cars in each and they dont they loud music or anything like that, they dont cause trouble, dont interfer with other people or there business. Its not all bad you know.

furtzy

kluivert wrote:

I would love you to come to my home town, there is more suped up cars than standard cars. And they dont go tearing up and down the town with there loud exhaust. These cars are nicely modified and some real Jap stunners such as Nissan Silva Toyota Supras and Celcias and off course. They park up and chat to each other the whole night long. Its their hobby, they dont drink and drive or drive dangerously.

So where is your home town. I'm from Monaghan originally. Must be the only country town that doesn't have the usual parade of noisy tack paraded around and around weekend nights.