Simple enough hand

cooker3

Ok, hand is nothing special but just interested in any thoughts people have in how it played out

FullTiltPoker Game #1125207291: Table Zola (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:08:35 ET - 2006/10/20
Seat 1: infinitus ($30.65)
Seat 2: Villian ($17.75)
Seat 3: Hero ($22.30)
Seat 4: markdeeznutz ($25)
Seat 5: jfc314 ($51.80)
Seat 6: XHEAD HUNTERX ($30.70)
infinitus posts the small blind of $0.10
Villian posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Ad]
Hero raises to $0.75
jfc314 folds
XHEAD HUNTERX calls $0.75
infinitus folds
Villian calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [9c Qc 2h]
Villian bets $1.75

No reads on the guy at the table as not been concentrating on table much while he was there.
So call or raise?

Ste05

I make it $5 and hope he pushes.

cooker3

Ste05 wrote:

I make it $5 and hope he pushes.

So you think I am ahead if he pushes?

NickyOD

$1-$1.25 should be your standard minimum raise preflop . You've be surprised the difference 4BBs makes, especially at the smaller stakes. I'd smooth call the flop bet and see what happens on the turn. You almost certainly have the best hand.

Hectorjelly

that board is to dangerous to flat call on, I would raise and feel a bit unwell if he pushed. Raise so much the turn is a pot bet all in. Hopefully he flat calls and the turn is a blank - then push.

Ste05

cooker3 wrote:

So you think I am ahead if he pushes?

Yep I think I am enough at those levels to make it a profitable call.

Also I agree with Nicky about making it $1 - $1.25 as your standard opening raise down here. Just makes it easier to get them all-in on the turn or River. Those few BB's makes a huge difference.

cooker3

Ok point taken about raising bigger, I shall start doing it and see how it goes.

Back to the hand, well sometimes I call, sometimes I raise, in this case I decided to just call. My reasoning behind this is I am pretty confident I am ahead, if he had set he would nearly always slow play it so I am thinking, QJ QT is likely hand. I figure I can get another bet out of him and then I will push or if he checks, bet good size and expect to get call if he has queen, if he had nothing then so be it.
So I call and.....

*** FLOP *** [9c Qc 2h]
villian bets $1.75
hero calls $1.75
XHEAD HUNTERX folds
*** TURN *** [9c Qc 2h] [Kc]
villian bets $3.50

Well at this point I had wished I had raised, oh hindsite is a lovely thing.
So what is my move now?

RoadSweeper

if he hit the flush, 2 pair, set etc, i doubt he'd bet so much here.

Ste05

I don't think there is a single worse card in the deck than this one.

Everything concievable just got there, except something like QJ and Q10, or a weaker Q, but only the worst overly aggressive stupid donk will bet here with a hand you still beat.

I don't think there's any shame in folding here, but you can never tell at these levels.

EDIT: I actually had a feeling he had KQ on the flop

RoadSweeper

why'd he bet so much?

Ste05

It's not that much, if my maths is correct the pot is $5.85 on the flop.

NickyOD

I think he has Q9 or KQ and I'm not going to try and get him to fold it.

RoadSweeper

actually ste, your right. didnt look right.

valor

I would have raised the flop up, but now fold

cooker3

Yeah, I wanted to puke when I seen that card, really wasn't pleasant but I still had a feeling I was ahead so I called and to finish the story here is what happened

*** TURN *** [9c Qc 2h] [Kc]
villian bets $3.50
hero calls $3.50
*** RIVER *** [9c Qc 2h Kc] [5d]
villian bets $8
hero has 15 seconds left to act
villian folds
Uncalled bet of $8 returned to villian
villian shows [Qd Jh] (a pair of Queens)
villian wins the pot ($12.25)

*sigh*
Looking back if I am calling turn then I really should call river as card makes no change but I couldn't see what he would bet with on 3 streets that I beat, at least he was good enough to show his cards so I can make a careful note on him in future.

valor

The argument that you must call the river if the card changes nothing is in general not a good one

cooker3

why so

If your think your ahead of turn and still thought I might be in this case then by definition a harmless river card doesn't change that.

Hectorjelly

valor wrote:

The argument that you must call the river if the card changes nothing is in general not a good one

In general you should never call one street and then fold the next street to a normal bet if nothing changes ; its just bad poker and is really exploitable. There are exceptions and you need to fold a certain amount of the time for balancing reasons. In this case if your hand is good on the turn then its good on the river, so you either fold the turn or call the river, unless you have a good read on your opponent and you think the call will slow him dow ; which very obviously was not the case this time.

Culchie

I don't like the raise UTG here at this level.

Far better limping with AQ ... hit your Ace on the flop and 9 times out of 10 you are good to make money on a standard flop..... or minimise losses to any subsequent heat.
Anyone holding AK is going to tell you with a raise, you can nearly see 'AK, AK' flashing above their avatar.

Just my 2 cents