Call or Fold

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 9:37am #1

Last 5 of $15 STT
Blinds 100/200
I have 4000 chips

2 Limpers, I raise from button to 600 with A10 diamonds

SB & BB complete, as does 1 of the limpers, and the flop comes a pleasing 10s 10c 2d

I'm happy to take the 2600 in the pot now and bet 1400 (should I have just pushed?), SB calls (who covers me), other 2 fold

Turn is Jh, hes all in - If I call & win the hand I'll have half the chips on the table, if I fold I still have 2000 behind to make a comeback - what would you do?

El Stuntman · 20-10-2006 9:40am

are you serious?

5starpool · 20-10-2006 9:48am

Raise more preflop with 2 limpers. Easy peasy lemon squeazy call now. If you called and he had J10 then you should not let this impede your thinking. You will be ahead here far more than behind, never mind when you are getting 3.7/1 on the call.

peeko · 20-10-2006 9:48am

Insta Call

Scouser in Dub · 20-10-2006 9:49am

you have a monster!!

FullOf..IT · 20-10-2006 9:50am

Its gotta be a call. Youre gonna say you called but he had J10 arnt u?

Scouser in Dub · 20-10-2006 9:51am

I also don't see the SB check calling any hand with a 10 in it then pushing the turn

SB has AJ at best

jimbling · 20-10-2006 9:55am

how can u even consider folding here... J10 and 22 are the only hands you're losing too (well, the very unlikely JJ as well)
But there is no way on earth you should fold this hand.

5starpool · 20-10-2006 9:56am

Scouser in Dub wrote:

I also don't see the SB check calling any hand with a 10 in it then pushing the turn

SB has AJ at best

Why? That would be fairly standard play, especially with the stack sizes the way they are.

5starpool · 20-10-2006 9:57am

jimbling wrote:

how can u even consider folding here... J10 and 22 are the only hands you're losing too (well, the very unlikely JJ as well)
But there is no way on earth you should fold this hand.

and the brunson of course.....

LuckyLloyd · 20-10-2006 9:58am

This post has been deleted.

Scouser in Dub · 20-10-2006 10:14am

5starpool wrote:

Why? That would be fairly standard play, especially with the stack sizes the way they are.

PFR bet half the pot on the turn which is going to look like a standard continuation bet. If SB has trips on the flop and fills on the turn he is more likely imo to check to give the PFR another chance to bet at it which is more likely to get the PFR's chips into the middle if the flop missed

WH BONNEY · 20-10-2006 10:17am

No deabate here. I wouldnt be able to call fast enough. Not to be condescending but if you are serious about winning tourneys this is a no brainer.

If this was hand number 1 in the WSOP main event im calling every year till I die.

5starpool · 20-10-2006 10:21am

Scouser in Dub wrote:

PFR bet half the pot on the turn which is going to look like a standard continuation bet. If SB has trips on the flop and fills on the turn he is more likely imo to check to give the PFR another chance to bet at it which is more likely to get the PFR's chips into the middle if the flop missed

There is 5400 in the pot, and the PFR has only 2000 left. Of course checking is an option on the turn and I likely would do this, but I would likely have led the flop on that board holding a 10 as well. Check calling flop and betting turn is not a bad option to play this hand given stack sizes imo.

Scouser in Dub · 20-10-2006 10:26am

I also would have led the flop and bet into the PFR with any 10 but if his line was check call the flop then lead the turn he could do that with any 10 holding not just the J.

Praetorian · 20-10-2006 10:31am

I love the way people don't say what they actually did!

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 10:45am

Praetorian wrote:

I love the way people don't say what they actually did!

Patience

I felt there was no way I could fold with the odds I was getting, and called
He had JJ and I'm gone

I was sure this was the correct play but mateyboy then started in the chat box with "how could you call there" "you got what you deserved" type comments, just wanted second, third, fourth etc opinion

Thanks guys

phantom_lord · 20-10-2006 10:46am

Can't see how you could consider folding here.

Ste05 · 20-10-2006 10:55am

Folding there is never an option.

@Praetorian
It's better when people don't post the results or what they did, the results of one isolated hand are completely irrelevant as to what the correct move is.

LuckyLloyd · 20-10-2006 10:55am

This post has been deleted.

peeko · 20-10-2006 11:01am

niamhsdad wrote:

mateyboy then started in the chat box with "how could you call there" "you got what you deserved" type comments, just wanted second, third, fourth etc opinion

Ass. I bet you he calls that everytime. Hard luck.

El Stuntman · 20-10-2006 11:27am

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I reckon you could have told him to go **** a Goat. A prime example of why I turn the chatbox to off on the rare occassions that I play online.

bet you wish you could do this offline too you unsociable sod....

jimbling · 20-10-2006 11:33am

5starpool wrote:

and the brunson of course.....

lol... id give up poker if someone had 10 2 here :-)

5starpool · 20-10-2006 12:13pm

jimbling wrote:

lol... id give up poker if someone had 10 2 here :-)

I have played a few times recently with this American guy who says he always raises with this hand "just cause it's the Doyle". He always shows too when it gets through.

phantom_lord · 20-10-2006 12:24pm

5starpool wrote:

I have played a few times recently with this American guy who says he always raises with this hand "just cause it's the Doyle". He always shows too when it gets through.

There's a young guy that I've played a good few times, and used to always play 10 2 "sure didn't db win 2 wsops with it?"

Yeah when he was heads up....not in a full ring deepstacked table....

He stopped playing it after getting all-in on the last hand of the night one time on a flop of q 10 2.

Other guy hand aq and hit another q.

jimbling · 20-10-2006 12:28pm

niamhsdad wrote:

Patience

I felt there was no way I could fold with the odds I was getting, and called
He had JJ and I'm gone

I was sure this was the correct play but mateyboy then started in the chat box with "how could you call there" "you got what you deserved" type comments, just wanted second, third, fourth etc opinion

Thanks guys

the reason I said JJ was highly unlikely is because he played the hand so badly if that was his holding. Terrible play by the villain* and if anything, you should have been slating him.

If he was very very deepstacked it may not be too bad. you say he covered, but not by how much.

LuckyLloyd · 20-10-2006 12:42pm

This post has been deleted.

giddyup · 20-10-2006 12:43pm

I seem to remember playing a niamhsdad in the last day or two but I dont have the hand history. That hand sounds like something I might have done but I wouldnt have given you static in the comment box. I remember you because of the Irish name/UK location so I figure you were Irish or had Irish connections (not that that makes any difference when there's chips at stake!)

PPP/fat-mc

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 12:51pm

jimbling wrote:

the reason I said JJ was highly unlikely is because he played the hand so badly if that was his holding. Terrible play by the villain* and if anything, you should have been slating him.

If he was very very deepstacked it may not be too bad. you say he covered, but not by how much.

At the start of the hand I had just over 4000, he had about 5600

Personally If I was him I'd have folded to the flop bet & waited for a better spot (hes still in good shape chips wise). He's only put an additional 500 in the pot at that point and what does he think he's beating with JJ?

5starpool · 20-10-2006 12:56pm

niamhsdad wrote:

At the start of the hand I had just over 4000, he had about 5600

Personally If I was him I'd have folded to the flop bet & waited for a better spot (hes still in good shape chips wise). He's only put an additional 500 in the pot at that point and what does he think he's beating with JJ?

With JJ there he is beating a lot of hands that are checked to the button who happened to be the preflop raiser. That s a good flop to see if you have 88 for example and most people would likely make the same move you did with that holding. I think the most dubious part of his play (apart from the unnecessary abuse afterwards) is betting into you when he makes the boss house on the turn. Check the turn should be his play there with that monster and bet the river if you don't take the bait.

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 12:59pm

giddyup wrote:

I seem to remember playing a niamhsdad in the last day or two but I dont have the hand history. That hand sounds like something I might have done but I wouldnt have given you static in the comment box. I remember you because of the Irish name/UK location so I figure you were Irish or had Irish connections (not that that makes any difference when there's chips at stake!)

PPP/fat-mc

Dont worry wasnt you, but you may well be one of the others who've dogged me over the last couple of days!! :mad:

jimbling · 20-10-2006 1:02pm

5starpool wrote:

With JJ there he is beating a lot of hands that are checked to the button who happened to be the preflop raiser. That s a good flop to see if you have 88 for example and most people would likely make the same move you did with that holding. I think the most dubious part of his play (apart from the unnecessary abuse afterwards) is betting into you when he makes the boss house on the turn. Check the turn should be his play there with that monster and bet the river if you don't take the bait.

thats more what I was talking about ya... why did he go all in after making the house... crazy play.
I don't like the flat call pre flop either. oop or no.... letting 4 people in the hand is just plain silly.

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 1:12pm

5starpool wrote:

With JJ there he is beating a lot of hands that are checked to the button who happened to be the preflop raiser. That s a good flop to see if you have 88 for example and most people would likely make the same move you did with that holding.

Good point, but I could have just as easily had 1010, QQ, KK. In reality I would have raised more if I did but hope you understand what I'm trying to say

In his shoes my thinking is, and possibly my thinking is flawed here, is do I want to get involved in a big pot with the guy 2nd in chips at this stage of the tourney when I'm not really sure whether I'm ahead or not. If behind at no point would I be getting the correct odds for my 2 outs.
I know risks have to be taken at times but this wouldnt be one of them for me

5starpool · 20-10-2006 1:17pm

If I was him I would have eith led out on that flop, or else check called and lead the tun (except when the J hit). The check call/lead turn option (imagine a 4 on the turn) would make QQ+ seriously consider whether their hand is good any more and may get this to lay down at times, especially against cautious opponents.

Chances are if he had lead on the flop, you would not have raised anyhow (or would you?).

niamhsdad · 20-10-2006 1:31pm

5starpool wrote:

If I was him I would have eith led out on that flop, or else check called and lead the tun (except when the J hit). The check call/lead turn option (imagine a 4 on the turn) would make QQ+ seriously consider whether their hand is good any more and may get this to lay down at times, especially against cautious opponents.

Chances are if he had lead on the flop, you would not have raised anyhow (or would you?).

If he had led the flop for a similar amount to me (1400), I would have had to consider pushing for my additional 2000 I think. Whether he would have called then or not is another matter.

Call or Fold

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