Betting Patterns Post Flop

dvdfan

Im looking for advice on post flop raising. Ive followed harringtons books and use his advice raising various amounts with various hands so nobody can put me on a hand properly PREFLOP.

But what about post flop, i use stats trackers so i can identify players who fold easily if they miss the flop and players who not to try continuation bets with because they are aggressive post flop.

I also have a technique which i think works well. I like to use the continuation bet with the right conditons for example, someone raises and i call, the flop is medium cards so i know from previous raises from this person that there most likely on AK,AQ,AJ,KQ so i try a continuation bet. Sometimes however when my stack isnt so healthy and the blinds are high its harder to pull off so i try to do this sometimes earlier when i dont have the nuts but i know ive a good hand.

I get AJ and J flops, i make the minimum raise all the way to the flop so my opponent is getting the odds to call but they wont lose too much and i get to showdown the cards. Anyone paying attention and seeing me do this twice or more will take note and when im just trying a continuation bet it will be disguised as they will fear im just going to min raise my good hand to the river like ive done before.

Anywho it allows me to get away with more continuation bets than i should because people will become suspicious if im not showing down hands. [unless theyre fish and not paying attention in which case they will have a high post flop agression % or Seen Showdown WSF % and i wont try it then anyway)

But i think i might be easy to read in other situations when im shortstacked because im limited. If i get a hand like AJ and Jack comes on the flop i want to bet it hard incase a Q or K come on the turn or the river so i raise larger but with lesser hands say middle pair i dont want to go higher than a min raise incase they have top pair and i become too commited with my small pair. I fear that because of this someone can easily put me on a hand and because of their bigger stack they can push me around. Has anyone tips and strategies for varying my bets postflop so im not easy to put on a hand and how to disguise my hands better when im shortstacked without risking my dwindling stack?

Hectorjelly

A continuation bet is a bet made by the preflop raiser, he is continuing his action from preflop. Leading into a preflop raiser is called donking on 2+2, and a donk bet is a minimum bet into a preflop raiser. It has that name for a reason. If you are going to lead into a preflop raiser then I would suggest doing it for at least 1/2 - 2/3 the pot and specifically NOT when you have top pair, its better to have a range of total bluff/monster.

Anytime you bet the minimum in a hand you have almost certainly made a mistake.

5starpool

As HJ says, your notion of a continuation bet is wrong. Also, if you minraise or min bet then you will find your hand goes from in front to behind an awful lot. Min betting a J high flop all the way for example is bad. Betting consistently is a good thing, and making the same size bet when you miss as when you hit is important, and anywhere between 1/2 to full pot depending on the situation can't lead you far behind.

Also, a continuation bet (proper definition) is not something you should make all the time, especially if you are against a tricky opponent. Never min bet with middle pair. This is horrendous. I always want people who min bet or minriase to lose regardless of whether I am in the pot.

RoundTower

5starpool wrote:

I always want people who min bet or minriase to lose regardless of whether I am in the pot.

This sounds a bit silly, why would you want them to do badly? I didn't have you down as someone who gets annoyed and outraged when his opponents aren't playing "properly". Especially if the min bettor/raiser is likely to be a weak player, the perfect outcome for you is that they win the hand and get positive reinforcement for playing this way, plus they get a big stack.

But yes OP it sounds like you are doing something wrong and play badly postflop. Try playing tighter and more aggressive.

Brayruit

5starpool wrote:

Never min bet with middle pair. This is horrendous.

Never min bet ... with anything ... ever (agree?)

TacT

5starpool wrote:

I always want people who min bet or minriase to lose regardless of whether I am in the pot.

I always want them to win so I can take their chips off them later and I always want them to min bet to give me cheap cards on all streets to outdraw them. Why do you want your opponents to not play badly?

OP, I suggest you eliminate the min raise and min bet from your game altogether and make your bets and bluffs exactly the same size. If they're the same size your opponents will constantly be guessing, which is a result you desire.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

5starpool

RoundTower wrote:

This sounds a bit silly, why would you want them to do badly? I didn't have you down as someone who gets annoyed and outraged when his opponents aren't playing "properly". Especially if the min bettor/raiser is likely to be a weak player, the perfect outcome for you is that they win the hand and get positive reinforcement for playing this way, plus they get a big stack.

But yes OP it sounds like you are doing something wrong and play badly postflop. Try playing tighter and more aggressive.

As I was typing that I knew it would get a couple of comments. Of course I want weaker players in the game, but it does enrage me somewhat inside when I see someone bet 300 into a 3000 pot on the flop or turn in order to 'suck' people in with their TPTK holding. I know this is bad logic from me also, but my rage monkeys don't like that.

You are right as well that I don't get annoyed visibly at the table, but bad logic is something that does get to me and someone thinking that a min raise from the button with 4 limpers preflop when they have aces is justification for giving out that his AA got cracked is bad thinking.

ArmaniJeanss

Brayruit wrote:

Never min bet ... with anything ... ever (agree?)

All EP/MP/button fold, SB limps, BB checks.
Flop, SB checks. A Min bet by the BB is fairly standard here???

5starpool

That is a half pot bet, and not really the situation people are describing, although technically it is a min bet.

dvdfan

Ok Thanks for the feedback. So when i bet after the flop i should keep a similar amount as in 2/3 of the pot or maybe more if im trying to maipulate the pot odds for flush and straight chasers.

How about the tourney situation, most of you say never min raise. If i have 3,000 chips, 3 more have similar chips and 1 has 6,000 chips. Flop comes A,J,5 and ive J,10. Blinds are 300/600 and i limped into the pot in the BB with no raises before me, 2 more similar stacks limp in with me. I now have 2,400 chips and have middle pair, this is where i like to just raise the min if i have a good read on the other players and expect them to fold if they dont have an Ace. If i was to raise more than the min raise i would be overcommitting myself to the pot for middle pair.

So whats my best option, Call and possibly allow one of the other stacks to show strength because i have not

or Raise Minimum to test the water and possibly take down a valuable pot that will put me on 4,600 and leave the other 2 stacks on 2,400

Or Raise more than the Min and how much more?

Keep an eye out on the forum and ill post a few hands lately, I think this may be the best way to get good feedback

Cheers

5starpool

dvdfan wrote:

How about the tourney situation, most of you say never min raise. If i have 3,000 chips, 3 more have similar chips and 1 has 6,000 chips. Flop comes A,J,5 and ive J,10. Blinds are 300/600 and i limped into the pot in the BB with no raises before me, 2 more similar stacks limp in with me. I now have 2,400 chips and have middle pair, this is where i like to just raise the min if i have a good read on the other players and expect them to fold if they dont have an Ace. If i was to raise more than the min raise i would be overcommitting myself to the pot for middle pair.

There are a few problems with the above.

1. You should really let yourself blind down to 5 BB's. With JT in this spot if no strength shown to you then go all in while you still have some ability to put pressure on people.
2. Don't bet your middle pair here, but if you think it is good you should either go all in or check and see what action is like behind you and possibly call a bet from someone.
3. If you put in 1/4 of your stack on a probe bet this type of play is likely to leave you viewing rather than playing sooner rather than later more often than not.
4. If you are playing in a tournament with stacks this shallow, then don't.