European Studies?

snapjiggyfluff

Just wondering if anyone here is doing european studies? It looks like a pretty good course in the propspectus and I was just wondering if anyone else here has anything to add?
Thanks!!!!

nutball

I did European Studies until Christmas of second year, at which point I transferred into the second year of a real course - which, I think, sums up my attitude towards European Studies.

I thought it would draw together all of my interests - languages, history, politics etc. - but because it's so broad you never actually get to get your teeth into anything. It's a wishy-washy, neither-here-nor-there sort of a degree with a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, random scattter-gun approach. In my opinion, you'd be much better off picking a TSM combination of a language and history/sociology; BESS with a language (can't believe I'm saying that, but it's probably the only way you can go on to combine politics with a language, although I'm not too sure); or even Phil/Hist Pol and keeping languages up yourself.

If it's the year abroad that's attracting you, that can be done through a myriad of other subjects - even ones that don't involve a language element.

All that said, some of my best friends have done it, enjoyed it and now have a decent degree out of it. On the other hand, some found it disorienting, being thrown in, for example, in fourth year with, say, a group of 'real' politics/sociology students where a certain level of background knowledge is assumed that they just didn't have. Just depends what you fancy: if you're a bit of a grazer, it'll suit you, but if you want to be able to place what you're studying in any sort of context, than you should probably do a 'real' degree in that discipline.

Macha

I did European Studies - I graduated in 2004. Ignore last poster - you didnt even finish the course.

European Studies is an excellent course. You learn 2 languages, get to spend a year abroad and also get to do History, Politics, Sociology and Philosophy.

All the TSMers are jealouse of European Studies students because we get to do an Erasmus year. It is very difficult for TSMers to do this because they have their finals of one subject at the end of their 3rd year.

You may have to go on and do a post-graduate qualification in order to improve your work-related skills, but that is the case with most Arts degrees anyway

nutball

taconnol wrote:

I did European Studies - I graduated in 2004. Ignore last poster - you didnt even finish the course.

Yes, any opinion opposed to yours should naturally be ignored. And before forming an opinion that a course is crap, I should have been sensible and gone through four years of its crapulosity. And given that I didn't, clearly I don't fall into the massively all-encompassing group of "anyone else here" to whom the OP appealed. Great discursive and logical skills you picked up in College. QED?

Also, for the OP's information, there is no Philosophy element in European Studies.

Nietzschean

in fairness since you only did 2 years, taconnol's opinion does get more weighting rather than someone who obviously disliked it/didn't finish it... though ignoring you would be extreem.

Macha

nutball wrote:

Yes, any opinion opposed to yours should naturally be ignored. And before forming an opinion that a course is crap, I should have been sensible and gone through four years of its crapulosity. And given that I didn't, clearly I don't fall into the massively all-encompassing group of "anyone else here" to whom the OP appealed. Great discursive and logical skills you picked up in College. QED?

Also, for the OP's information, there is no Philosophy element in European Studies.

There is philisophy, in the form of History of Ideas - Nietzsche, Walter Benjamin etc, but I don't think you stuck around long enough to see it.

Quit with the bitterness ok? When I'm posting at 10pm after a long day at work, Im not going to write out a feckin thesis, just my opinion in brief. I don't know why I bother posting here sometimes, the aggression from some people is ridiculous.

My friends from ES have gone onto become Third Secretaries in the Dept of Foreign Affairs (the most applied-for public service position), study in the College of Europe in Poland, win internships in the Dept of Human Rights in Foreign Affairs, etc. They've gone onto study in SOAS, LSE and a host of other acclaimed universities. Some have already been published on numerous occasions.

It is an excellent course which equips you with many skills that are transferrable into the work-place. As I said previously, you may have to go on and do some post-grad study.

nutball

Ah come on, I did History of Ideas, and Edward Arnold rambling on like a half-baked dilettante trying to impress at a dinner party [you have to admit that there's at least a grain of truth in that description] doesn't constitute philosophy. An interesting and worthwhile course (in terms of the texts involved) certainly, but not philosophy.

Aside from that, I will concede that you have some very valid points. And I realise that I came across as agressive, and apologise: it's only because it's a little grating when people dismiss an opinion as invalid because of whatever criteria suit them. If you're going to say I can't have an opinion because I didn't have the 'full experience', then I assume you yourself wouldn't be so presumptuous as to have an opinion on, say, Israel, Iraq, HLMs, Ryanair buying up Aer Lingus shares, Anabaptism, whale-harpooning or any other subject that may lie outside your direct frame of experience. Which would be a little unreasonable.

Macha

nutball wrote:

Ah come on, I did History of Ideas, and Edward Arnold rambling on like a half-baked dilettante trying to impress at a dinner party [you have to admit that there's at least a grain of truth in that description] doesn't constitute philosophy. An interesting and worthwhile course (in terms of the texts involved) certainly, but not philosophy.

Aside from that, I will concede that you have some very valid points. And I realise that I came across as agressive, and apologise: it's only because it's a little grating when people dismiss an opinion as invalid because of whatever criteria suit them. If you're going to say I can't have an opinion because I didn't have the 'full experience', then I assume you yourself wouldn't be so presumptuous as to have an opinion on, say, Israel, Iraq, HLMs, Ryanair buying up Aer Lingus shares, Anabaptism, whale-harpooning or any other subject that may lie outside your direct frame of experience. Which would be a little unreasonable.

I admit that Dr Arnold isn't the best selling point of European Studies, or the French Dept for that matter! You get the feeling he is bull-sh**ing his way through being a lecturer and then you realise he is!

On that point, I was involved in the Students Union and found out that more complaints were made about the French department than all the other departmental complaints put together...some facts speak for themselves..

Yeah you're right - your opinion isnt invalid - I just had such a good experience myself & never heard anyone say anything bad about ES. There were a few people who left after 1st year, but thats the same in every course.

It is an interdepartmental course, so you're right about the lack of cohesion - you do get shunted around a bit.. My only big gripe about the course is that it isn't the most work-friendly course in the world. Because I haven't gone on to doing a post grad (well, in the middle of a Dip in Journalism at the moment), a lot of times, I find myself being offered a lot of customer service positions (ick).

Can I ask what course you changed into?

All the TSMers are jealouse of European Studies students because we get to do an Erasmus year. It is very difficult for TSMers to do this because they have their finals of one subject at the end of their 3rd year.

It's more difficult but not impossible - I know quite a few people who went away in 3rd year TSM other than myself, and I did well in my French finals, so I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor. I do wish I'd switched to European Studies, but not because of Erasmus - I found the TSM course waaaaaay too literature based and not enough linguistics and actual language work. I was ill informed about the courses and if I'd known more about ES, would have probably done it. Everyone I know who does it enjoys it, and they say it is a real mish mash but that's part of it's appeal. They have a high level of language as well - obviously helped by spending a year abroad.

nutball

taconnol wrote:

I admit that Dr Arnold isn't the best selling point of European Studies, or the French Dept for that matter! You get the feeling he is bull-sh**ing his way through being a lecturer and then you realise he is!
...
Yeah you're right - your opinion isnt invalid - I just had such a good experience myself & never heard anyone say anything bad about ES. There were a few people who left after 1st year, but thats the same in every course.

Glad we seem to have made our peace (united through a mutual distaste for Dr. Arnold - If I'd a euro for every time I've bonded with someone over calling him a charlatan...)! I do come across as an awful koont on these because I tend not to be as diplomatic as I would be in, um, real life. It's like Fight Club with a keyboard . And I was slagging off your course. Which is something like slagging off someone's Mama.

taconnol wrote:

Can I ask what course you changed into?

I switched to TSM - keeping one of the languages I was already doing with Philosophy as my other subject.

taconnol wrote:

My only big gripe about the course is that it isn't the most work-friendly course in the world.

It does seem to be hard to get a related job after ES, but I suppose that's the same with any course, unless you're doing something strictly vocational.

William Hallowed Ham wrote:

I found the TSM course waaaaaay too literature based and not enough linguistics and actual language work

But I think in ES - mostly just to fit everything into the timetable - you probably do a couple of hours less of each language a week because you forego the literature etc. And in first year, you're actually exempt from doing that linguistics course everyone in TSM seemed to loathe/fail/loathe because they failed (again probably because it's a 'dispensable' hour in an otherwise pretty busy timetable).

Macha

nutball wrote:

Glad we seem to have made our peace (united through a mutual distaste for Dr. Arnold - If I'd a euro for every time I've bonded with someone over calling him a charlatan...)!

You're telling me - in my final year, I had him as my French teacher, lecturer of Modernism & Mass society AND he was my tutor!! I had him for 4 out of 10 contact hours.

I remember when I went back to Trinity in March of my Erasmus year, I went to see him and he said "Are you ready for the best year of your life?" And I had to awkwardly point that I was, in fact, 2/3s the way through the best year of my life...

But he has his good points. At the French Christmas party of 4th year, he got really drunk & told us all he was in charge of TCD's wine cellars. He said there was a huge wine cellar underneath the Buttery but that we weren't supposed to see it until we graduated. Needless to say, we couldn't wait that long. I think I still have a 1972 Chateau Neuf de Pape somewhere at home that I nicked while I was down there (my justification was the ridiculous €1000 "registration fee" - I hope my file was made out of golden leaf paper for that amount...oh and I was a wee bit drunk at the time )