Friends and their boyfriends...

Chinafoot

Apologies in advance for the long post. Kind of need to vent on this.

Background:

Met a girl, Anne, in college and we became really good friends. Saw each other everyday and never really had any major arguments. Just a really good friendship.

Organised a girls holiday with myself, herself, another girl from college, Sarah, and Sarah's mate Orla. Day before the holiday, Sarah pulls out for medical reasons so the three of us head off. We had met Orla once before so didn't really know too much about her. Turns out the girl is a headcase. Anyway, on the second night of the holiday Anne ended up with a a guy from Cork and we hung out with him and his mates all night and had good fun. For the rest of the holiday every night out revolved around when Anne could go and meet this guy. She's have dinner with us whilst contantly watching the clock and then she'd leg it to go meet him. It got very annoying as I didn't know this Orla girl and she did nothing but cause trouble every night. It's not like we could even all go and meet him and his mates because he was doing the same as her and ditching them. Anyway, when we got home she kinda realised how bad it had been and apologised for only wanting to spend time with him.
I wasn't going to fall out with her over it so it was grand.

Second holiday, pretty much the same thing happened again despite constant promises of "we'll have a great girly holiday". I have absolutely no problem with her meeting guys and I encourage it but I think that ditching her mates for some guy she barely knows is pretty bad form. Again she was all apologies when she got home and I let it go. Seemed pretty stupid to fall out over it.

A few other things happened with another very good friend of ours, Claire, and it was that side to Anne that neither of us like very much. On one occasion Anne and Claire went out for a drink to have a chat as Claire was having some home problems. Claire was meant to be staying in Anne's house as her house was closer and she didn't have the money for a taxi. While out in the pub Anne got chatting to some bloke who wanted her to go home with him. She said it to Claire who was a little put out and said "thought I was staying in yours?" Anne responded by handing her the key to her house and telling her to go home without her. Claire told her to shove it and left.

There's lots of little instances like that but we always just let them go as there is usually drink involved and they're silly things to fall out over. Unfortunately though not bringing them up means they've been building up over the years and months.

Last december we had a girls night out with all the college crowd and I told Anne that after christmas we would be booking the flights for my sisters hen weekend which was coming up at the end of March and I asked her was she still good to go. "Yea definitely I can't wait!". After christmas the flights were booked and I sent her a text with all the details. She replied with "eh, i never said i could go. i have a 21st that weekend." I rang her to find out what was going on and she kept insisting that she never said she was going and that I could just cancel the ticket. It was an online booking so no refund was possible so I ended up paying her €130 as well as my own. Her attitude towards the whole thing was incredibly frustrating and we ended up not speaking for a while. Other things got in the way such as family issues and then exams, so it was a while before we sorted it out. I ended up getting in touch with her saying I wanted to sort it out, she was all apologies and we seemed to be getting back on track.

Cut to now:

She recently got engaged after a whirlwind 6 month romance. I'm delighted for her and her boyfriend is a total sweetheart. She seems to have calmed down a lot and seems really happy. He gets along with all the girls and my boyfriend and it's always a good night out.

Myself and Claire have been trying to organise a "girls" night as the last time we had one was that night back in December. Everytime we suggest a night out and when we explicitly say "girls night" she still assumes that the other half will be coming along and he usually does. Now don't get me wrong, he's great and I really like him, but it'd be nice to have an night out with just the girls as it's been so long.

Myself and my boyfriend met her and her fiance last Sunday for a few drinks. I told her that I had the house to myself this weekend and that I was going to get the girls down for a night out where I live. She was totally up for it. Later that night she was outside chatting to my boyfriend and she asked him if he would becoming to my house this weekend. He said "no..it's just the girls" She had already said it to her fella and thought he would be coming too. Once the confusion was sorted she was still up for coming out with us and even said herself that it's been too long since we've done it.

I sent her a text yesterday to make sure she was still coming and she sent me the following "hey there! was just saying to claire, i may not be back until sunday but i know she is going." That was it! I don't have a problem with plans changing for whatever reason but I hate it when she says she's going to do something and then bails on it without even an apology. Claire rang me pretty pissed off at her attitude and the fact that she never even apologised for bailing on us (and not for the first time either). Apparently Anne told her that she had to deliver thank you cards on Saturday to the people who bought them an engagement present. Claire asked why she couldn't do it Friday or Sunday (or post them like a normal person) and that we hadnt been out together in ages. This is the message she got back: "sure i told you that yesterday. i know we havent but its not like im never available. im here 3 weekends out of 4. are you mad with me or something? are you still going?"

Everytime I start a message I stop because it sounds so confrontational. It's not like we can all meet up and sit down because she's never without her boyfriend! I know she's not doing anything "wrong" but we just want her to try and see it from our point of view. They are together 6 nights a week so I don't see how one night is going to kill her?! I understand that she's in love, I am too , but I still manage to make time for my friends. It's getting to the point where we're not going to bother aking her to come out anymore because we know what the answer will be.

I don't really know how to resolve the situation without it ending up in a row. I don't want to fall out with her again and I don't want her to think that I don't like her boyfriend. I just wanted one night out with all the girls.

Anyone been in the same position and manage to sort it out?

Faith

That's really tough, peachy. Myself and my friends were in a similar situation over the summer where one of our friends, E, kept ditching the rest of us at the last minute for her boyfriend, or refusing to commit to plans. We got really angry with her, and stopped inviting her places. I doubt she even noticed until the night of my going away party, when she realised that she hadn't been invited to O's house to get ready. She got really angry then, but wasn't interested in hearing WHY she hadn't been invited. She came out, in the end, and I thought everything was cool, but I haven't heard a peep out of her since I left, almost 2 months ago. I doubt the situation has been resolved with our other friends either.

To be honest, she's not worth it, in my opinion. I don't want to be friends with anyone who has so little respect for me, and values my friendship so little. I think in your case that you just have to tell her straight out what you want. She obviously doesn't even realise what she's doing. If she doesn't cop on after that, well, I wouldn't waste my time on her.

LegacyUser

i think this can be summed up in a line or two..
Your too nice a person. Fu*k her...
You gave her that many chances and she still goes and does it again..
You dont need her...
as i said, Fu*k her

Chucky the tree

Stop asking her out. It seems pretty obvious what the girl is like and doesnt seem like changing so why continue to bother?


The only other thing is to have it out with her properly. You seem to have avoided a huge row over they years for various reasons, and even didnt want to sent a text because you felt it was to confrontational. You should make it clear you are very pissed off with her and so are the girls. Dont hold back.

If she doesnt change, then stop asking her out. If she takes the hump and stops talking to yous, then thats what would of happened anyway. Dont really have much to lose.

Gordon

Deary me, I wouldn't bother either.

If you really want to meet up then can you not talk to her fiancee and see what he has to say? Maybe he can do the cards and he can make sure that he stays the f*ck away from the girls night?

onemanband

I think this thread points out big differences is how men and women would approach the same issue.

Your friend has taken the piss on many occasions. Acted out of order without really doing anything that could be regarded as totally over the top. No reason to ruin a frienship and playing on your mind. You have spend lots of mental energy toiling over this and have discussed it often with friends. Yet you still have not squared it off with her.

If you were a bloke IMO you would have quickly taken your mate aside and said he was acting the bollox and it was out of order. If he kept doing it after having the chat you would gradually just stop investing in the friendship.

I think you should wait until she steps out of line again and have a straight chat about past instances and highlight the current example. Don't make out it is the end of the world but that you just wanted to say it because you value her friendship.

If she takes it in the right vein then no probs. If not then she obviously is a bit of a stuck up so and so.

Chinafoot

Yeah I'm normally not really one for holding my tongue and if I have a problem with someone or something I'll come right out and say it. She knows this all too well and as a result I reckon she'd just take the attitude of "oh thats just steph, she's probably just in a bad mood." She's totally oblivious to the situation.

Her comment of "I'm here 3 out of 4 weekends" really annoyed me. Yeah she's here but she's glued to her boyfriend. She just can't see it.

After we fell out the last time it was me that had to make first contact when as far as I was concerned she was the one who should have apologised to me for messing me around like that over the hen weekend. Even now I feel like it's me that's making every effort with her. I haven't started my new job yet so money is low and I don't get to nights out that often, but when I do I always make the effort to ask her to come along.

onemanband wrote:

I think you should wait until she steps out of line again and have a straight chat about past instances and highlight the current example. Don't make out it is the end of the world but that you just wanted to say it because you value her friendship.

Myself and Claire have decided to do this. At the moment I can't be arsed trying to explain to her our point of view because I know she'll just take the hump. We're going to organise a girls night for a few weeks time which will give plenty of notice and if she bails again I'm done.

Black Swan

Skip asking her one time, and if she enquires why, share what you have shared with us.

The Hill Billy

peachypants wrote:

We're going to organise a girls night for a few weeks time which will give plenty of notice and if she bails again I'm done.

Peachypants - You are being too tolerant of your friend. I wouldn't include her in your plans.

When she comes over all hurt & says, "Why wasn't I invited?" tell her that you feel that you've given her enough opportunities in the past. This time you've arranged a night with the girls that you can depend on.

OrangeOranges

Im sorry. I just couldnt make it any further than about 1/3rd way down. Its complete girl bit*hiness IMO.

I mean FFS is there nobody in the world left with a little independant thought? Are you not fully entitled to do whatever the feck it is you want to do on holiday?

And couldnt ye do likewise?

I mean the bit about her looking at the clock during dinnner............to make sure she was on time I presume? How can you even remember a detail like that? Sounds to be like your a bit of a stressed out person. And a little too obsessed with "Girly time".

Maybe you should just sit her down and explain the "rules" of what she can and cant do on "girly time"?

Talliesin

Maybe their both being too nice, and she isn't the "girls night out" type.

So:

1. You organise a girls night and because you're nice you invite her.
2. She has little interest in a girls night, but because she's nice agrees to come.
3. Basic differences as to what you enjoy in a night out lead you both to act as is natural to each of you.
4. Conflict.

ferdi

peachy, you've made all the effort and she keeps throwing it back at you. ditch this bitch

LegacyUser

okay just going to throw this out here...

maybe she doesnt care? i mean this girly time idea is a bit silly. i mean im all for having a laugh with my girl mates but a set time and all that is a bit much. maybe shes not the type to separate boys/girls. i'd put money on it you came from a all girls school.
sure she could say sorry but you havnt had a proper talking to her yet so she proberly hasnt realised how much this bothers you.
of course theres always the reason maybe she doesnt want to spend time with you as much as you do her. it seems its been this way with her from the start. thats who she is. like it or lump it. you cant force someone to be who you want them to be and the mere fact you havnt enough friends to keep you busy apart from this girl you has done nothing but piss you off with the way she does things i her life is quite telling.
take a chill pill. we all like having girl mates to do girly things with but only if they are as willing as you are. spend time doing this stuff with them. dont invite her to these things and it will reveal whether or not she'd be that bothered by it. imo she wont be however

Talliesin

girls view wrote:

maybe shes not the type to separate boys/girls

Certainly, from the other side of the fence so to speak, a night out "just with the lads" has always bored me silly.

Chinafoot

OrangesOranges wrote:

Im sorry. I just couldnt make it any further than about 1/3rd way down. Its complete girl bit*hiness IMO.

If you're not going to bother to read the whole post why bother commenting?

girlsview wrote:

maybe she doesnt care? i mean this girly time idea is a bit silly. i mean im all for having a laugh with my girl mates but a set time and all that is a bit much. maybe shes not the type to separate boys/girls.

Ok just a few things here. I'm confused by this "setting a time" comment. A night out was organised, she said she was all up for it and then she bailed. This is what has annoyed me. It's not like I have said "you have to be spend x amount of hours with only me on x date and thats it."

As for her not wanting to separate the girls/boys...apart from her boyfriend I can tell you one other male friend that she has. Her friends are almost all female and in the past Anne was the one who would organise the nights out and be the one to say "girls only." She was very much into her "girly time" as you call it.

girlsview wrote:

and the mere fact you havnt enough friends to keep you busy apart from this girl you has done nothing but piss you off with the way she does things i her life is quite telling.

This is quite insulting tbh I can assure you that I have plenty of friends, both male and female, that I see quite often. When I go out, I go out with a big group and it doesn't bother me who else comes along.

The whole reason behind making this effort with Anne is due to the falling out we had and the fact that our friendship isn't the same as it was. There was a large group of us in college but myself, Anne and Claire were closest out of the groups, and myself and Claire thought it would be nice to have one night with the three of us to catch up properly - something that we haven't had a chance to do properly. Everybody is busy at different times and some are back in college so it was great that we had agreed on a night. Then she bailed...again.

I am not obsessed with "girly time" I just thought it would be nice to spend an evening together without the boys and the boyfriends.

So yea, maybe you're right. Maybe she doesn't care and in that case, why should I?

Kell

peachypants wrote:

So yea, maybe you're right. Maybe she doesn't care and in that case, why should I?

As per someone else, you have made all the effort and she hasnt reciprocated. Friendship is a two way street IMHO and I would quit TBH.

Her priorities have obviously changed. Quit while you're ahead. Dont invite her to anything anymore (whoever that is, I got lost, sorry) and move on. The main thing here is to deprive her of opportunities to let you down. Know that she is a friend, but a more "aquaintance" type friend. Hard I know, but you gotta save your sanity.

Hugs,

K-

(Kell is in a fantastically positive mood today. I might actually be nice to people here for once)

Chinafoot

Kell wrote:

Her priorities have obviously changed.

Yea I think this is what it comes down to. It just irritates me that everytime I do see her she goes on and on about how we have to have a night out like we used to, and then when we make the effort to try and organise it she bails.

For the record I am so not a "girly girl". I'm not into getting dolled up, I hate shopping, tv shows like Sex and the City make me want to peel the skin off my face and I'd rather stab myself in the eye repeatedly than watch a chick flick. Anne, however, loves all of this stuff and before we fell out she was the one wanting the "girly nights". I just wanted an opportunity to have a proper chat. *shrug*

She's also asked me to be her maid of honour, but the wedding will be years away so it probably wont happen.

Kell wrote:

Hugs,

Wow, you really are in a good mood! You're going to make people nervous.

Anyway cheers for the responses folks.

Red Alert

I've to defend peachypants here. I've met peachy a few times, and have also been disciplined by her as a mod a couple of times. A few boardsies from college meet up occasionally and i've gone along - peachy really make sure everyone new has a good time and knows who everyone else is. Doesn't strike me as petty type of person where little things turn into big things.

The sad fact is that some people don't know their and other people's place. Look at things the other way, isn't just annoying when someone comes along when you're supposed to be on a date with someone and won't go away! Nice and all as they are, it's just not the place for them. Basically peachy & friends have decided what sort of nite it is, and she insists on changing things. If I was lucky enough to have a g/f I mightn't want her around if my friend called me to met up about a break-up or something, especially if he didn't know her well.

Zombrex

peachypants wrote:

I don't really know how to resolve the situation without it ending up in a row.

It hurts when I bang my head against the wall. How do I make it not hurt?



Look, without being too blunt, what are you expecting here? You seem to be waiting for her to suddenly realise that she is a selfish bitch and come running back to you and Claire apologiesing. That ain't going to happen.

She has been like this for as long as you have known her, and despite saying sorry every time she does something like this she shows no sign of learning from her mistakes or altering her behaviour. From your post it seems that she doesn't even seem to understand what she is doing is bad form.

She is selfish pure and simple, she doesn't "get" what a friendship actually is. She is in it for what she gets out of it. I doubt she is even aware of this herself, and probably imagines this is what everyone is like. I would imagine she is board line psychopathic (seemingly 1 in 20 people are) in that she seems to have great problem putting herself into others shoes, or understanding how her actions can negaitvely effect those around her.

Which would explain her over and over rushing off to with boys leaving you or your friends completely high and dry, or not understanding why you might not want her boyfriend to turn up for a girlie night.

Unfortunately she is what she is. I don't think there is anything you can do to change this.

Clearly pointing things out to her doesnt change anything, beyond release a flow of hollow apologies designed to smooth things over and avoid conflict but not actually realising or learning from what she did (classic psychopathic behaviour).

So now the question is if you are willing to accept that or not?

If you aren't the answer is to simply stop inviting her on holidays and to things you organise.

If you do wish to accept her as she is you will just have to factor that into your plans, by never assuming she is actually coming or not, and not making your plans around her coming. If she says she wants to come on holiday with you she books her own ticket and hotel room, or you get the money from her first before you book it for her.

You either have to accept that banging your head against the wall is going to hurt, or you have to stop banging your head against the wall.

There doesn't seem to be a third option.

If she says she wants to come to a girl party you tell her when and where to turn up and you tell her she can't invite the boyfriend. The ball is then in her court.

You aren't going to get her to cop-on herself on. Its clear that isn't going to happen. So you just have to either take the relationship as it is, and realise this is not a friend you can particularly rely on, or if that isn't good enough for you and your friends you need to phase her out of your friendship.

Chinafoot

Red Alert wrote:

I've to defend peachypants here. I've met peachy a few times, and have also been disciplined by her as a mod a couple of times. A few boardsies from college meet up occasionally and i've gone along - peachy really make sure everyone new has a good time and knows who everyone else is. Doesn't strike me as petty type of person where little things turn into big things.

Thanks for that RA.

I don't like to make big issues out of stupid stuff but I think in this instance it's getting to the stage where we're just very frustrated and stuff is building up and there hasn't been an opportunity to get it sorted. We're sick of hearing from her "oh we have to go out soon. no men allowed!" but when it comes down to it, it never happens.

Wicknight wrote:

It hurts when I bang my head against the wall. How do I make it not hurt?

I like!

Yea I know you're right, I just need to bite the bullet and have it out with her. If she can't take it on board then I don't think I'll be bothering anymore.

Talliesin wrote:

So:

1. You organise a girls night and because you're nice you invite her.
2. She has little interest in a girls night, but because she's nice agrees to come.
3. Basic differences as to what you enjoy in a night out lead you both to act as is natural to each of you.
4. Conflict.

Missed this earlier, sorry. It's more a case of:

1. I suggest a girls night because we all keep saying that it's been ages and we should really do it soon.
2. I ask her because we were best friends and I would like the opportunity to have a proper night out and catch up and try and get our friendhsip back on track.
3. She says she's totally up for it and can't wait and then when it comes down to it she cancels or else brings her boyfriend.
4. Conflict.

I just want to make it clear that I really do like her boyfriend and I understand the loved-up feeling but I believe that a good balance is needed between your relationship and your friends. The reason I haven't been able to say anything to her is because I know that no matter what way I say it, she's going to think that I don't like him.

Bleurgh, I'm going around in circles now so I thank you for all the replies. I reckon I know what to do now.

Kell

peachypants wrote:

Bleurgh, I'm going around in circles now so I thank you for all the replies. I reckon I know what to do now.

More hugs. Am I making you nervous, am I, am I?

So point of conclusion- you are going to stop banging your head off the wall and sticking the fork in your eye, yes? You are not going to make any further attempt to involve her going forward, yes? If she invites you out you are graciously going to say yes, yes? (So long as you're available).

K-

still having a great day. The prospect of weekend long sex with a v hot female has this effect

stovelid

Its not just girls that do it, Peachy.

One of our best friends started going out with a woman years ago and just disapeared. When it was all over, he started hanging around with us . Now he's engaged to a new woman (who we all secretly hate) and he's constantly blowing us out; last saturday being the latest blatant example.

All I can say is that your mate is probably not worth it and it's something that she will probably really regret in years to come once the novelty of the relationship has worn off.

We love our mate but he's missing out and if he ever has to fall back on us in the future if she is not around; he's unlikely to find any takers a second time.

LegacyUser

I just thought I'd share this, I have a worse friend than that...

I left the town a while back to start a new job, every couple of months I head back there to see family and stuff. So I usually send a few texts that week saying "I'm gonna be in such and such pub on saturday night if you fancy coming in" to everyone I haven't seen.

This friend always replies "Oh yeah that will be great blah blah blah can't wait to see you etc"

Then she never shows up!

No explanation whatsoever, and what really gets me is I usually find out from someone else she was trying to get everyone to go out the night before!!

So now I just don't bother with her anymore.