Van advice!

cormie

Hi,
I'm thinking about getting a van but don't know a lot about them. I suppose the oul reliable is the Ford Transit, would this be the best van to get or are there better ones out there? I'd be looking to spend about 5K on one. For this price should I expect to have to put up with a lot of trouble due to high mileage or are would they be still quite reliable?

In terms of Litre engine, well they'd be diesel as far as I know, but I don't know much about diesel, would a 2.5L diesel be much more to insure than a 2L? What would give adequate performance?

I've looked on carzone but don't really have a clue.

Also, where is the line drawn between a category B and C license with regards vans?

I'd appreciate any feedback!:)

R.O.R

Line is drawn at 3.5ton for Cat B and Cat C licence.

In general the Transit is the best van around, but it very much depends on what you need it for.


Currently there are circa. 200 different Transit variations so I think you need to narrow it down a bit before we can pass on advice.

cormie

I thought it was weight related alright, but how do you tell the weight of the vehicle? And is it weight unloaded or fully loaded?

The transit is deffo cat B yeah? And all the ones that look like it would be too?

Anyway, the type of van I'm after would be used to city and long distance driving, city more. I'm not sure if I should go with high, med or low roof, or if I should get the longer ones or what. Would there be much difference in driving between these? I suppose it would mean I'd be able to fit more in and get the most out of the van, the bigger it was. Would the bigger the van mean the bigger the insurance/tax/petrol cost?

Maybe something like this: http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=487204

I don't want a pick up or tip truck type van, a mini bus or anything either, just a cargo van like the above.

As I said, I'm quite unsure so any help would be appreciated:)

overdriver

The transit is FAR less reliable than the Haice.I haven't a bad word to say about mine.

http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Ford_Transit.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Toyota_Hiace.html

bazz26

If you have a VAT number you can get commerical tax on the van so it would not make a difference whether it is a 2.0 litre or 2.5 litre. Commerical motor tax is a fixed price afaik.

What van you get depends what you want to use it for and what your pay load will be.

If you only need it for advertising then a Transit, etc may be too big. Try something like a Ford Courier, Seat Inca, VW Caddy or Opel Combo. Don't forget the Peugeot Dispatch, Renault Kango and Citroen Berlingo too.

Also you can get small vans based on cars such the Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Almera and VW Golf.

R.O.R

cormie wrote:

Maybe something like this: http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=487204

QUOTE]

That's as big as you can go on a B licence (don't stick a tow-bar on it or you'd need a C1 licence and a tacho in the van). That's a 90bhp 3.5Ton Longwheel base (90 350L). Looks like a high roof as well.

The 3.5Ton is the maximum vehicle weight - Kerb weight + payload.


I've never had experience with Toyota Vans, probably bullet proof like most Toyota's, but for cost, cheapness of parts and ease of service the Transit usually comes out on top.


Did a large tender from all van manufacturer's in 2005 and Ford came out on top - nearly 200 vans went out this year.

Savman

cormie wrote:

I suppose the oul reliable is the Ford Transit, would this be the best van to get or are there better ones out there?

Yeah it does the job as most of them do. They're all pretty much boxes on wheels, you pay more for the luxury of a TDI Caddy for example but the Transits are legends in their own right!

For this price should I expect to have to put up with a lot of trouble due to high mileage or are would they be still quite reliable?

Depends how long you plan keeping it etc. Anything upwards of 20k miles a year is the norm for commercials, they generally lead a rough life but can run forever if maintained.

In terms of Litre engine, well they'd be diesel as far as I know, but I don't know much about diesel, would a 2.5L diesel be much more to insure than a 2L? What would give adequate performance?

Well, insurance is insurance at the end of the day and they'll assess the vehicle on enginze size as well as useage so of course it comes into it. But again depends on what you'd be carting around, I've a 1.9dti Vivaro which feels fairly beefy. Insurance limitations means I have to stay under 2l for the time being...

Also, where is the line drawn between a category B and C license with regards vans?

As already mentioned, 3500kg Gross Vehicle Weight. That means certain Long Wheel Base and/or High Roof vans need a higher license. Bog standard Transit is defo a normal B license though.

I thought it was weight related alright, but how do you tell the weight of the vehicle?

Its in the brochure on the vehicle manufacturers site!

Carpenter

cormie wrote:

Hi,
I'm thinking about getting a van but don't know a lot about them. I suppose the oul reliable is the Ford Transit, would this be the best van to get or are there better ones out there? I'd be looking to spend about 5K on one. For this price should I expect to have to put up with a lot of trouble due to high mileage or are would they be still quite reliable?

In terms of Litre engine, well they'd be diesel as far as I know, but I don't know much about diesel, would a 2.5L diesel be much more to insure than a 2L? What would give adequate performance?

I've looked on carzone but don't really have a clue.

Also, where is the line drawn between a category B and C license with regards vans?

I'd appreciate any feedback!:)

Hi
I have a nissan cargo 2.3ltr for sale 2500 euro new tyres battery exhaust still has tax on it well looked after and hand on my heart never had a prob with it
70.000 miles 1998 white if you are into looking at it pm me if not wish you the best looking for your van

Wishbone Ash

Savman wrote:

Bog standard Transit is defo a normal B license though.

It depends on what's inside. A 2 tonne payload will bring it into a C1 licence requirement. A lot of van drivers ignore the manufactures payload limits.

Savman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It depends on what's inside. A 2 tonne payload will bring it into a C1 licence requirement. A lot of van drivers ignore the manufactures payload limits.

We are a law unto ourselves y'know

Do-more

If your after a billboard, this might be your van

Right on budget too!

cormie

Thanks for all the replies.

I've had a look at both the hi-ace and the nissan cargo, neither will be big enough for what I want it for unfortunately.

I know I started a thread looking for a car to advertise on, this wont be for that purpose, I'll actually be using the size for transporting goods.

I think the Transit looks to be the best choice so far although I don't like the results it's had in the link overdriver pointed to in his post above.

Are there any other similarily sized vans to the transit but maybe with better reliability but still in the same price bracket?

I'll want to keep it in the B license category too:)

Savman

What are you transporting?

If its the Boards team its a crew cab ye want :D

cormie

haha, nah not for that:D

I'll be transporting pretty much everything in it, it'll be a man with a van type van, sav....man...

Savman

Ok well Renault Trafic, Opel Vivaro & Nissan Primastar are all same van and are decent alternatives to the Ford Transit. Along with Mercedes Vito, they'd prolly be the main runners in the "standard white van man" category.

Going larger you've all the above in LWB versions and then yer into their big brothers, Opel Movano, Mercedes Sprinter etc but again you're hitting the 3.5 ton marker with the bigger vans...

If you can go smaller you're looking at VW Caddy, Seat Inca, Opel Combo, Opel Astravan, Citroen Berlingo, Nissan Kubistar, Transit Connect, Renault Kangoo, Peugeot Partner etc. They're all under 2l afaik and great nippy l'il things.

The sky's the limit really, but for yer €5k budget its all about how much space you really need. I've found there's very little difference in vans, they all do pretty much the same thing imo and not s'posed to be fancy. Like I said, box on wheels. At the very least try get a TD otherwise you'll really miss that chunk of power taking off from busy roundabouts and the like.

I wouldn't be so anti-transit though, because there's so many of them there's more chance of hearing bad reports but they're like the reference van for all other manufacturers to compare to. The older ones are noisy aul bangers though!

cormie

Well after having a look at all them, I think it's definitely the top row I'd be looking at:

Renault Trafic, Opel Vivaro & Nissan Primastar are all same van and are decent alternatives to the Ford Transit. Along with Mercedes Vito,

The vito is a bit small, but the rest of them would suit fine. Everything besides the transit seems to be out of my budget though:(

There's no prices on a lot of them though:(

One thing I'm not going to like about driving a van is no use of the rear view mirror:( How do those who drive vans find it?

Also, what is the max amount of passengers I can have? Does it depend on how many seats are in the van? And what defines a seat as a seat? haha, will a little wooden bench in the back with home made seat belts do? :eek:

Savman

cormie wrote:

The vito is a bit small, but the rest of them would suit fine.

Vito is similar size!

One thing I'm not going to like about driving a van is no use of the rear view mirror:( How do those who drive vans find it?

Odd at first, but very easy to get used to. You soon develop a van driver syndrome known as "if I cant see it - its not there"
Seriously though, I only miss it when reversing blindly which does take some getting used to...

Also, what is the max amount of passengers I can have? Does it depend on how many seats are in the van? And what defines a seat as a seat? haha, will a little wooden bench in the back with home made seat belts do? :eek:

God no, that kinda thing is frowned upon these days. It's not 1980's Ireland anymore where football teams can throw 15 kids into back of a hiace for away games! :eek:
Passenger numbers obviously depend on how many seats the van has, I can take 2 passengers in the Vivaro but some of them only have 1 passenger seat so it could be something to watch out for.

Wishbone Ash

cormie wrote:

And what defines a seat as a seat?

You will love this cormie: Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 1963:

75. (1) In a vehicle, each seat shall be of adequate dimensions, with a closed or continuous back rest of adequate size, and the supports of the seat shall be firmly fixed in position.

(2) Each seat in a vehicle shall be so constructed, and placed in such a position, as not to be likely to cause discomfort to any passenger.

(3) Where any seat in a vehicle is so placed that a passenger seated upon it is liable to be thrown through any exit or entrance or down a stairway, an effective screen or guard shall be placed so as to provide protection for any passenger occupying that seat.

(4) In a vehicle, there shall be a clear space of at least 3 feet measured vertically above the centre of the front edge of each seat or portion of seat allowed to each passenger.

(5) In a vehicle, the shortest distance between the edge of any step well and vertical plane passing through the front edge of a seat shall not be less than 9 inches.

(6) In a vehicle the distance between any part of the back rest of any seat placed lengthwise and the corresponding part of the back rest of the seat facing it shall not be less than 5 feet and 3 inches:

Provided that, in the case of a vehicle having passenger accommodation for not more than 14 persons, it shall be sufficient compliance with this requirement if the distance is not less than 4 feet and 6 inches.

(7) Seats placed lengthwise in a vehicle shall be so fitted that there is a clear space of at least—

(a) 8 inches in front of any part of every such seat, and

(b) 2 feet in front of the centre of the back rest of any such seat or any portion of such seat allowed for one passenger.

(8) In a vehicle, cross or transverse seats shall be so fitted that—

(a) there is a clear space of at least 1 foot and 4 inches between any part of the front edge of a seat and any part of any seat which faces it, and

(b) there is a clear space of at least—

(i) 8 inches in front of any part of a seat, and
(ii) 2 feet in front of the centre of the back rest of any such seat or any portion of such seat allowed for one passenger.

cormie

Haha, thanks for that. So that's basically saying I can make my own seats and turn my van into the Venga Bus if needs be at the weekend? :D

Strange it doesn't mention anything about seatbelts there!

overdriver

My Hiace is Long wheelbase and high roof. Is that the size of the Hiace you saw? It also has 3 full size seats.

If you want, you can have a look at it to see if it's the kind of thing you want.

The transit is noiwhere near as reliable, and for my money that's where it's at. They are all just a box on wheels, so get one that is less likely to let you down.

The Primastar and its sisters share many parts, and as some of them are made by Renault, I'm being honest when I say that rules them out for me, sorry.

R.O.R

overdriver wrote:

The Primastar and its sisters share many parts, and as some of them are made by Renault, I'm being honest when I say that rules them out for me, sorry.
QUOTE]

I'll second that based on my experience with a fleet of Vivaro's. Notorious for breaking down, and very few Opel dealers can actually service them.

peasant

I think it's time to throw another name into the ring:

The Fiat Ducato (and to a lesser extent the Citroen and Peugeot derivatives of the same van)

And before everybody cries out ....oh my god ...never buy a Fiat ....its different with the Ducato

The engines are Iveco units (the excellent 2.8 or the even better 2.3) or Fiats own 2.0 ...all latest technolgy common rail diesels. (remember ...Iveco/fiat are the ones that originally developed this technology)

Rust protection on the Ducatos is very good and general reliability is far better than the generally bad Fiat reputation.

The other advantage is ...their cheap. Their pretty cheap to buy when new anyway and in Ireland (due to everybody wanting a Hiace or Transit) they're pretty much given away second hand.

Well worth a look and a test drive, in my opinion

cormie

Thanks again for the feedback.

That Fiat Ducato doesn't look too bad at all. Right size and right price but because it's Fiat, I still can't help but question the reliability side of things. I don't know myself what good an iveco engine is as I'm not too up to date on engines or anything. Looks like it's between the Ducato or the Transit now.

The Hi-Ace still doesn't look big enough, it doesn't look wide enough and the overall shape makes it seem like it wouldn't hold as much as the above two for what I need it for:(

Also, does anyone know about roof racks? Are they expensive to put on? I see a few transits on carzone have them, but most don't, could come in handy, could never have the need for it, but still, it'd be a nice extra.

When you mention technology about the Ducato, what exactly are you talking about?

peasant

Iveco (formerly a merger of Fiat and Magirus Deutz) is the heavy trucks side of the Fiat group. Together they developed the common rail technology for transporter engines. These engines usually started their lives in the RWD Ivecos and then filterd down into the FWD Fiat Ducatos. They are well proven and have an excellent reputation.

As you know, I'm into motorhomes and active in several forums about motorhomes. 90% of all motorhomes are based on Fiat Ducatos (because they used to be the cheapest base vehicle) and the only weak point that motorhome drivers have to report about Ducatos is a) a not perfectly bullet proof alternator and b) the odd corroded negative electric contact point on the chassis.

All easy to fix.

R.O.R

cormie wrote:

Also, does anyone know about roof racks? Are they expensive to put on? I see a few transits on carzone have them, but most don't, could come in handy, could never have the need for it, but still, it'd be a nice extra.

To be honest - if you have a Transit 350 long wheel base full, it's likely you'll be over the max payload anyway so the roof rack would put you way over.

You'd be looking at about €800 for a heavy duty builders roof rack with ladder.

cormie

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

When you say all easy to fix, do you mean easy and cheap, or just easy? How often would I have trouble witht he above problems on the Fiat?

So whatever stories I've heard about Puntos and all that, the oul Fix it again Tony sayings for Fiat, I don't have to worry about any of that with the Ducato?


I'm just thinking the roof rack would be handy for things like long bits of timber if I ever needed it. I don't think I'll be going for the long wheel base model if I'm getting the transit. Not sure.

peasant

Well ..lets face it ...for 5 k you're not going to get a pristine van, no matter what the make.

What I'm trying to tell you is that for that money the Ducato will most likely be younger / less travelled then a Transit or a Hiace.

How well it was serviced or how badly it was abused is for you to judge.

But generally speaking the Ducato (despite it being a Fiat) is not a bad van at all and a bit of a "trade secret" in Ireland, so for your budget going for a Ducato just might get you the best (or least battered) van.

cormie

Ok, so out of all the ones I've seen, I think I've narrowed it down to a Ford Transit or a Fiat Ducato. Would really prefer not to spend more than 5K on the van itself.

So considering its use will be say 70% traffic 30% open roads, and I want a van cheap to tax/insure and to stay in the B category, but still be powerful enough to take off at roundabouts etc. Is there any model you guys would suggest?

Both of the above vans, if in good shape, actually look good enough to put a poker.ie banner on so I'd like one in a good aesthetic condition too:)

Do you reckon buying something like a van, it would be a lot wiser to buy from a dealer with a warranty etc?

I'd really prefer a van with use of the rear view mirror. I'm going to miss it greatly along with the general see everything feel of my fiesta at the moment (it's like the whole top part of the fiesta is one big window, it's great!)

overdriver

Buy a van where you can see out of the back window, then. I have to say i would miss it too. Fortunately, I have a rearview mirror and an unimpeded view through te back window.

I personally think warranties are something you pay for, one way or another, and you would be better , given your budget to buy privately, but be prepared to kiss a lot of frogs.

VRT on a commercial vehicle is 50 euro, so perhaps the UK might suit you also?

I wouldn't touch either the Ducato or the Transit, personally.

How big exactly does it need to be?

peasant

Can't really help you with your other questions ...so much depends on the condition of the actual van and I guess for 5k you will have to look at quite a few frogs before you find your prince.

But forget about the rear view mirror thing.
Even if your van of choice does have rear windows, the actual view out of them will be very limited. The only thing you will get out of them is a false sense of security.

Of course it is better to have a window than to have no window, but you will not be able to rely on the information you can gather from your rear view mirror. Objects will only be visible when they are a good bit a way, and by that time you will have seen them in your side mirror as well.

I would actually suggest that you block off your rear view mirror for a while (or even remove it), so that you learn to use your side mirrors instead and to adjust your driving to your new, restricted vision.

cormie

Yeah, I suppose it's just a matter of getting used to it if I can't find one with windows.

overdriver, if you were in my position and said the above about what you were looking for, with my budget, what would you go for?

Also, what's the story with applying for a commercial vehicle? What documents etc would I need?

cormie

Saw this one. It looks pretty nice, but it's a 96, 10 years old. But it only has 60K miles. Would a 00/02 etc with 180K miles on it be a better or worse choice? Also, does anyone know what the vault in the back would be like and how difficult it would be to remove?

That's probably the nicest van I've seen, it looks in great aesthetic condition, is the right colour and condition to put a poker.ie banner on too;) I think if someone confirmed that the short mileage weighed up against the fact it's a bit older, and the vault was easy to remove, I'd buy it. Hmmm.

Actually this (a) and this (b) have pretty much equal mileage and are nearly twice as young. Van A looks pretty good actually, good condition, could put logo on, back windows and a side window too which would be handy, more windows the better:) It's long wheel base with a semi high roof. I wonder would that be going into a cat C license? Van b looks a bit rougher, has a roof rack and windows too but also has a tow bar which someone mentioned will put it in cat c.

At least I know theres ones out there with back windows:)

overdriver

Sorry to harp on, but my Haice is as big as both van b and c. If it's reliability you're after, that would be my choice.


Go see each van in person and look for signs of clocking. The '96 one seems to have very low mileage for it's age, given the average is twice that.Though it does have a nice high roof on it, which would make your ad look better.

cormie

Them transits look a lot bigger to me than the hi-aces do Door size, width, height, shape, it seems the transits would fit a lot more in?

I had a look on for 2nd hand hi-aces and the prices are pretty dear. I'm not doubting their reliability, and this is probably the reason for the high price, but I just can't go that high at this stage and would prefer to spend less on what seems to be a much bigger van for not anyway.

overdriver

I'll stick a tape-measure on it if you want! Cheapest is not always best, in my experience.


Any roadie will tell you that packing a van properly is 9/10ths of the fight.

cormie

I know cheapest isn't the best, but I actually can't go higher than 5K for the van:D

I'd be interested to see the door/inside area dimensions of both to compare alright, but we wouldn't be able to compare to the transit if you got yours:o

R.O.R

http://www.whatvan.co.uk

List dimensions and tech specs on current available vans so should give a rough idea - old vans may be on there as well, but I only look at new vans.

Great site for all van info and road tests. There is an Irish site launching soon

cormie

Thanks for the link, seems van of the year 2005 is Iveco, which peasant says the Fiat is built off and then the readers choice is Ford Transit. Hmm.

large panel vans of the year for the past 5 years are:

2001- Ford Transit
2002- Citroen Relay & Fiat Ducato & Peugeot Boxer with the Transit being commended
2003- Ford Transit with the above 3 being commended
2004- Nissan Interstar, Renault Master, Vauxaul Movano with the Transit being commended again
2005- Iveco daily with the above 3 being commended


Kinda gives me a bit more faith in the Transit and Ducato anyway!

3ps

The Ducato can have a weak 5th gear.

overdriver

cormie wrote:

I know cheapest isn't the best, but I actually can't go higher than 5K for the van:D

I'd be interested to see the door/inside area dimensions of both to compare alright, but we wouldn't be able to compare to the transit if you got yours:o[/QUOTEI


I paid €4,800 for my 2001 with 85k on the clock. FSH to back that up, too, but I did buy privately.

The good thing about the Transit is the fact that with so many of them about, you'll have lots of choice, and spares should be plentiful.

Would you not look in the UK, as they're generally better minded there - and chaeper, too?

I'm not sure what you mean about comparisons etc, but do be careful about going too big or you won't have a license for it.

The other thing to be wary of is insurance. You must have a valid reason to want a commercial vehicle. I have 3 big dogs amd cycle competetively (ahem!), and my existing company grudgingly covered me.

cormie

Yeah, I'll be using this for commercial use for sure. Does anyone know what the story with that is though? I'm currently insured with britton insurance on my fiesta, for about €1080 for the year (which is pretty good for a 22 year old). I think I was told if I keep the fiesta, I can't transfer the NCB. I have no real reason to keep the Fiesta and my friend may even want to buy it so I can get rid of that no problem. A guy I know said his insurance on the van (He's 21 and has a Transit) was only about €300/400 which is nothing really.

So how would I go about getting the cheap insurance? Is it cheap by default for commercials?

Is there not a lot of extra work involved in getting one over from the UK? How much would I be likely to save on a car that costs 5K here? What about changing the reg and everything, seems like quite a lot of work to be done?

overdriver

It's not just the saving on the purchase price, it's the fact the UK vans will be in better nick, and higher spec.

Re-registering it is very simple.

cormie

Do you say that because UK people are actually thought to drive where as Irish just have to pass a theory test and they could be driving a van like a LWB High Roof transit a week after:rolleyes:

So you reckon I should definitely go for a UK car? What if I get stung, as I said, I wont know anything about it and don't fancy thrawling around the UK looking for a van really. I wont know who to trust over them there waters:o

Torq

cormie wrote:

Thanks for the link, seems van of the year 2005 is Iveco, which peasant says the Fiat is built off and then the readers choice is Ford Transit. Hmm.

large panel vans of the year for the past 5 years are:

2001- Ford Transit
2002- Citroen Relay & Fiat Ducato & Peugeot Boxer with the Transit being commended
2003- Ford Transit with the above 3 being commended
2004- Nissan Interstar, Renault Master, Vauxaul Movano with the Transit being commended again
2005- Iveco daily with the above 3 being commended


Kinda gives me a bit more faith in the Transit and Ducato anyway!

Hi Guys,
I've heard stories of 5th gear wear on ducatos if the gearbox oil is not kept at the correct level. But having said that it's possible to replace 5th gear in situ in less than 2 hours, all going well it could be done in an hour. Nearly every van you will see in france is a ducato derivative with hardly a transit on the road, and as previoulsy stated most campers are based on the ducato.
Keep well,
Torq

cormie

Thanks for that. I think it will definitely be either the Ducato or Transit anyway. Now it's just a matter of finding the right one!