Misleading air fare ads to be banned

Mad Finn

This report says that airlines are to be prohibited from posting misleading adverts such as they do now showing the price of air fares minus taxes and charges.

Quoting from the report


Low-cost airlines such as Ryanair and Aer Lingus are to be banned from advertising low fares without including hidden charges such as airport taxes and luggage surcharges.

The plan was revealed by representatives of the Department of Transport at a meeting of the Oireachtas European Affairs Committee.

The committee was discussing proposed EU regulations on air transport rules.

Deputy Bernard Allen, who chaired today's meeting, urged the Department of Transport to introduce this requirement immediately rather than wait for the EU Regulation to come into force in 2007.


Proper order too. As far as I know, other industries are forbidden from advertising the price of goods minus VAT (for example) to a consumer audience. Closed circulation magazines aimed at a specific business sector can advertise goods minus VAT but those aimed at the general public cannot.

So for example, if Dell computer were advertising in something like Irish Computer, they could display prices ex VAT because the assumption is that readers are business buyers who could claim back the VAT, but if they were advertising in, say,the Irish Times they would have to display the full price.

I have no idea why the airline industry is exempt from such restrictions. Quite right that the rules are changed. It will make pricing up flights so much quicker.

Bluetonic

I would like to know who in their right minds see an advertised price for an airline flight and doesn't realise that there are taxes and charges involved as extra.

Mad Finn

So you think having the full price on one page is a bad idea?

Mad Mike

Much as I believe in a citizen's absolute right to not be protected from his /her own stupidity I am kind of in favour of this. Its just annoying to see something advertised for €0.50 and then realise that by the time you add taxes and what not the price is closer to €50 than 50c.

Mind you I would equally like to see a ruling that the amount paid in taxes is also shown prominently. Its always nice to be reminded just how much we are paying the good folks in government for looking after us "so well".

rubadub

I thought a similar law was already in force?

I hate shopping in the US for the same reason, no tax on goods on the shelf. It may as well say, PC $9, then we have to pay a guy to make it, warehouse to store it, tax on his wages, delivery to shop, delivery to you, light & heat in the office etc etc final price $1000

Like ryanair, fuel charges, pilots caps, makeup for trolley dolleys.

Victor

Mad Mike wrote:

Its always nice to be reminded just how much we are paying the good folks in government for looking after us "so well".

There is no direct taxation on international flights.

Kashkai

Its about time this practice of excluding the "extras" was ended. I followed up a newspaper ad stating that there was a cheap deal of 3 nights in New York with flights and accommodation for €499. However, the travel agent then informed me just prior to booking that there were some "extras" to be added to the cost. These extras included the taxes, fuel surcharges and insurance which pushed the price up by €260 making the cheap deal not so cheap at €759.

When I asked why this was not included in the ad, she quite honestly told me that they'd never have had any enquiries if the quoted price was for the full amount i.e. €759. She said a lot of people still went ahead and booked these deals even after they had discovered the true cost as they had already physched themselves up to go or had bragged to their mates/girlfriends that they were off to New York.

This is an out and out scam but I guess they'll keep doing it until the law is changed AND ENFORCED

Danno

The add should read:

Fly Airport 1 to Airport 2: €10 single fare
Tax on single fare: €18; Minimum Service Charge: €2
YOU PAY: €30


Same as in an electrical shop:

TV: €194
PRF: €5
YOU PAY: €199

Mad Mike

Victor wrote:

There is no direct taxation on international flights.

Please explain Victor - I may well be in the wrong here. I assumed that the additional charges were predominantly taxation. If they are actually a genuine business charge (for example airport charges) then there is no excuse whatsoever for the airline not reporting them in their advertised fare. Imagine if bus companies quoted one fare and when you got on the bus you were told that there was an additional charge to cover the cost of the bus garage.

I just checked Ryanair.com for flights from Dublin to Cork. There is an additional charge on each flight called "taxes fees and charges". This amounts to €20.94 from Dublin to Cork and bizarrely it amounts to €23.02 from Cork to Dublin. These amounts are not mentioned until you actually go to book the flights. I was under the impression that the lion's share of this amount was actually taxation - but the fact that it differs each way even though the fare is the same makes me suspicious.

Alun

See http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=pnr&quest=taxesfeescharges for details of all the charges and fees.

zeusnero

take for example if Ryanair advertise "free flights" - from a ryanair point of view they are free. ryanair don't earn anything from the ticket cost

you're paying taxes to the government and to use the airport. no matter who you fly with the taxes will always be the same, so why not let airlines compete on how much their seat will cost you???

Mad Mike

zeusnero wrote:

take for example if Ryanair advertise "free flights" - from a ryanair point of view they are free. ryanair don't earn anything from the ticket cost

I don't agree. Just because Ryanair aren't make a profit on the deal does not make it free. If Tesco decides to sell milk at cost price - they make no profit on it but they certainly cannot advertise the milk as being "Free". I looked up the breakdown of the charges (thank you Alun). Include in the additional charge is:


Government tax and/or UK Air Duty
Passenger Service charge (for use of the airport)
Aviation insurance levy
Wheelchair levy

Only the Air duty and Government tax are genuine "taxes". The others are real costs of being in the airline business. How can you run an airline without having an airport to land in??? The fact that the airline's insurance costs have gone up after 9/11 is unfortunate but many other businesses also pay high insurance premiums.

I know this is standard practise in the airline industry and I realise Ryanair are not solely to blame but the more I look into this the more I realise that we really really do not want one airline (Ryanair or anyone else) having an effective monopoly of flights out of Ireland. I can just picture the situation:

Low cost Flight Dublin to London €0.50

Small print: Additional TAXES and charges €150

Even smaller print: The additional TAXES and charges are all the fault of the big bad government but does include a minor monopoly bonus charge of €125 for ourselves.

Budd

About time. They should jsut do like every other industry and give the consumer a price. I don't want a full audit of your company detailing your expenses, just give me a price. Now if they could only sort out ticket 'extras'.

Victor

zeusnero wrote:

take for example if Ryanair advertise "free flights" - from a ryanair point of view they are free. ryanair don't earn anything from the ticket cost

Well except for their percentage margin on the other charges and the debit/credit card charge (1.00-2.50 EUR)and the luggage charge (9.00 EUR).

Ryanair wrote:

Dublin (DUB) - Glasgow Prestwick (PIK)

Going Out (Reg fare)
1 @ 29.99 EUR 29.99 EUR
Taxes, Fees & Charges
details 20.94 EUR

Coming Back (Web fare)
1 @ 0.99 EUR 0.99 EUR
Taxes, Fees & Charges
details 19.08 EUR

Total Cost of Flight
excluding handling fee (if applicable) 71.00 EUR

So for me and my suitcase, its not 30.98 EUR, not even the 71.00 EUR "Total Cost of Flight", but 82.50 EUR of which the Irish government doesn't get a penny (other than corporation tax).

Aer Lingus wrote:

Dublin (DUB) - Glasgow (GLA)

Passengers Fare p.p. Taxes & Charges Cost p.p. Total
1 Adult 58.00 41.91 99.91 99.91
Handling Fee (excluding infants) 6.00 6.00
TOTAL EUR 105.91

Aer Arann wrote:

Dublin (DUB) - Inverness (INV)

Going Out (M Fare)
1 Adult at € 72.99 EUR € 72.99 EUR
Taxes and Fees ( details)
Airport Service Charge 8.25
Insurance and Fuel Surcharge 7.00
Airport Security Charge 4.00
€ 19.75 EUR

Coming Back (O Fare)
1 Adult at € 43.99 EUR € 43.99 EUR
Taxes and Fees ( details)

Airport Service Charge 11.10
Insurance and Fuel Surcharge 7.50
Government Tax 7.52
Total Cost of Flight € 162.85 EUR

you're paying taxes to the government and to use the airport. no matter who you fly with the taxes will always be the same, so why not let airlines compete on how much their seat will cost you???

No, the landing and passenger handling charges at Prestwick are different to the charges at Glasgow. The transaction charge is different, the luggage charge is different.

"How much their seat will cost you" is not the total cost of flying.

dahamsta

The arguments here are oft-repeated and remain ridiculous. If we're to go with that logic, the supermarkets should be allowed to advertise all their products ex-vat. How would you all like that?

adam

A Dub in Glasgo

It is a total nonsense that airlines can get away with this kind of advertising.

deman

Mad Mike wrote:

Low cost Flight Dublin to London €0.50

Small print: Additional TAXES and charges €150

Nonsense!

Going Out (Reg fare)
1 @ 0.01 EUR 0.01 EUR
Taxes, Fees & Charges 10.98 EUR

shltter

I think other companies should use this model

Imagine it Tescos milk 2 litres 1 cent
When you get to the check out they add
The Cow feed charge
Milking charge
Delivery charge
Pastuerising charge
Use of the Supermarket Charge
Container Charge
Credit Card or Cash Handling Charge
Tax

_Kaiser_

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Its about time this practice of excluding the "extras" was ended. I followed up a newspaper ad stating that there was a cheap deal of 3 nights in New York with flights and accommodation for €499. However, the travel agent then informed me just prior to booking that there were some "extras" to be added to the cost. These extras included the taxes, fuel surcharges and insurance which pushed the price up by €260 making the cheap deal not so cheap at €759.

When I asked why this was not included in the ad, she quite honestly told me that they'd never have had any enquiries if the quoted price was for the full amount i.e. €759. She said a lot of people still went ahead and booked these deals even after they had discovered the true cost as they had already physched themselves up to go or had bragged to their mates/girlfriends that they were off to New York.

This is an out and out scam but I guess they'll keep doing it until the law is changed AND ENFORCED

Totally agree and as the agent was honest enough to admit, the reason it's done as it is is because they wouldn't get many calls if the true costs of these "free" or "nearly free" flights were given in the advertising.. as Dave says it's a scam pure and simple

On the bright side maybe now they will start to compete in other areas (unless Ryanair buys Aer Lingus in which case it's academic really) so that the customer WILL get a few decent bargains.