Fight Science tonight on Nat Geo

buck65

Programme tonight on Nat Geographic at 10pm "Fight science" looks at various martial arts techniques and interviews with some of the greats - worth a look!

whitelightrider

buck65 wrote:

Programme tonight on Nat Geographic at 10pm "Fight science" looks at various martial arts techniques and interviews with some of the greats - worth a look!

Its actually pretty good. They test punching power and kicking power of various martial arts. Its interesting and well presented.

Jimkel

Iv'e seen it, It's very good and interesting, but some of the information is a bit wafflish. They suggest the Ninja "death touch", displayed as a hammer fist to the solar plexus, is the ultimate strike. Yet they don't give the results in pounds like all the other punches, so It's impossible to compare.
In fact they clearly state Ninjitsu is the Ultimate Martial art, without showing evidence to support it. Not very Scientific.

The results for the punching power (In pounds) of different martial arts is also a load of bull, The smallest guy "Kung Fu" had the weakest punch,the largest guy "Boxing" had the strongest punch, all the other results ascended according to the size of the puncher, like the second largest guy "TKD" got the second most powerful punch. they could of been any martial arts, the results would of been the same, the heavy guy has the heavier punch, the light guy has the lighter punch, Just common sense and not representative of the power of the Martial arts represented. if the biggest guy was "kung fu" and the smallest was "Boxing" it would of been the opposite. The difference between them in size was at least 2-3 stone.

Also Karate was horribly misrepresented, Why did they not have a traditional karate master I don't know, if there supposed to be testing traditional arts.

The "Karate punch" was not a Karate punch at all, everyone knows the trademark Karate punch is the "reverse punch" or "Gyaku-Zuki", yet he delivered something like a boxers cross.

The Karate "side kick" was more like a "Jeet Kune Do movie" style side kick and not the traditional karate side kick "Yoko-Geri Kekomi"

The TKD kick was represented by an "Ushiro-Kekomi" in Japanese or in Korean "dwit chagi" it Could be described as a Spinning Back trust Kick. This kick, altough part of TKD's arsnel, Is more representative of Traditional Karate, because thats were TKD got the kick From, And is probably the most powerful kick in karate.

Sorry if I sound like I'm nit pickin here but the show states it's aim is to test traditional Martial arts and then finds some non traditional Karate master to represent traditional Karate.

on the plus side the TKD master was amazing to watch, It's the first time I've ever been truly impressed by TKD.

Did you see the power Muay thai guy achieved in the Knee to the chest!

I don't know what to say about the power breakers, except wow! I don't know where they fit into martial arts but their feats of strenght are amazing.

The weapons bit was interesting aswell, I don't use weapons so I can't comment but it was cool.

Better then the discovery channels Extreme Martial arts show but still very patchy in places.

Clank

Good show but a bit waffily, especially the ninja bit.

Gotta agree with you on the weight issue Jimkel, from the boxer to the Wushu practitioner there was 3/4 stone easily of a difference.

Honestly I only watched it for the BJJ bit!:D

cowzerp

I thought the programme was great and obviously a bit misleading with certain things-but! any martial artist knows that boxers punch hardest pound for pound as can be seen by all the knock outs in fights-also that thai boxing is more ferocious with the kicks-i dont think you can test different size individuals like this or different skilled-example-if the boxer was world champ like some of the other artists it would of been much better punch.
all in all different arts are better in different situations and thats why the where designed to suit where they came from.:)

NeiloMac

I found it very interesting,

Especially the Kinetic energy bit, when you stop and think about the machanic's of it all. I was just thinking of it in releation to some of my judo throws and, thinking that way will prob help my technique knowing where the movement really starts,

Good show, apart from the Ninja Ultimate Warrior, Blah, good balance ill give him that,

FiannaGym.com

When they tested power in Olymipic boxers punching I think a middle weight had the most powerful punch.

None the less, styles that train for power in a realistic fashion are obviously going to be the most powerful.

Peace

Dyr

Jimkel wrote:

I
The weapons bit was interesting aswell, I don't use weapons so I can't comment but it was cool.

Havent seen the program but apparently Nathan Scott was involved in the weapons end, he posted his thoughts on it here: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35036&page=2&pp=15

JohnMc1

I watched it. It was good but didn't reveal anything too shocking.

Michael O Leary

Just curious,

What is the most powerful boxing type punch? Jab? Right cross? Hook? Uppercut?

Michael O'Leary
www.iewto.org

monkey tennis

Jimkel wrote:

The "Karate punch" was not a Karate punch at all, everyone knows the trademark Karate punch is the "reverse punch" or "Gyaku-Zuki", yet he delivered something like a boxers cross.

The Karate "side kick" was more like a "Jeet Kune Do movie" style side kick and not the traditional karate side kick "Yoko-Geri Kekomi"

You seem to be pidgeonholing 'karate' to shotokan karate.

bilbo79

Michael O Leary wrote:

Just curious,

What is the most powerful boxing type punch? Jab? Right cross? Hook? Uppercut?

the cross would be most thought of(strong hand from back of stance) but every boxer has different strenghts-i've a wicked left hook and right upper cut-not bad with rest but these are defo my power shots.

pearsquasher

Just a thought on punching and "power". From my experience, the power of striking is more to do with the when and how in relation to an adversaries body position in time rather than in actual force applied. If your martial art allow you to study this, which many do of course, then one doesn't need large forces in the strikes, but rather better positioning, a knowledge of balace, good targets, timing, strategy etc. I think its failry simplistic to reduce things down to "whats$ the most powerfull"; It should be about whats most effective and economic for a particular desired result when striking and that result doesn't always have to be about pain, knocking someone out or maximum damage, when controlling someone.

Dyr

Why make something overly complex and contrived when the more elegant (not simple) solution has the desired effect?

john kavanagh

Bambi wrote:

Why make something overly complex and contrived when the more elegant (not simple) solution has the desired effect?

lol i ask myself this looking at about 95% of MAs training.

i think the answer is that most people lean towards a certain level of fantasy or 'magical thinking' and imo the two biggest areas for magical thinking is MA and Religion. otherwise logical, rational people can believe all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff in those areas.

Colm_OReilly

john kavanagh wrote:

lol i ask myself this looking at about 95% of MAs training.

Why make something overly complex and contrived when the more elegant (not simple) solution has the desired effect?

i think the answer is that most people lean towards a certain level of fantasy or 'magical thinking' and imo the two biggest areas for magical thinking is MA and Religion. otherwise logical, rational people can believe all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff in those areas.

I ask myself that looking at 95% of living.

Roper

If theres a better way to punch than boxing, I haven't seen it. 100+ years of top level forced evolution has secured that.

monkey tennis

john kavanagh wrote:

the two biggest areas for magical thinking is MA and Religion

In some places, you'd swear they're one and the same...

Roper

monkey tennis wrote:

In some places, you'd swear they're one and the same...

Hmm, odd question but does your username have anything to do with 'Youth Hostelling with Chris Eubank'?

Dyr

Roper wrote:

If theres a better way to punch than boxing, I haven't seen it. 100+ years of top level forced evolution has secured that.

though in all fairness, people point out the degree to which the use of wraps and gloves has had on boxing technique over those 100 years. i dunno how much it affects technique but it seems like a valid point to me

john kavanagh

well it doesn't change the fact the best way to develop power in your punches if punching from the ground up, twisting the hips etc to get your bodyweight behind it rather than just 'arm punching'.

its worth noting that for practical purposes a light accurate punch is far better than an inaccurate hard punch.

Roper

LOL, an ex "coach" of mine used to advocate kicking and punching the guy in the arms as hard as you could if he had a high guard so as to tire his arms out. Needless to say that whenever anyone tried it, they got tired first and for the most part, the guard was still there!

Bambi, for me that argument against boxing doesn't hold water. Its obvious that you can hit harder with gloves and wraps on, but the critics of this tend to advocate unusable alternatives or just pure fantasy.

cowzerp

On the bags i would throw 200 punches as a minimum in a 2min training round-this would be over about 9 rounds of bags-considering most top boxers train about 5 days a week thats 9000 punches on bags plus about the same shadow boxing-no other art trains like this-also in ma, stances are designed for kicking or blocking where a boxing stance is for fast footwork and punching accuracy and power-boxing is the punchers sport-simple.

Jimkel

monkey tennis wrote:

You seem to be pidgeonholing 'karate' to shotokan karate.

Not at all, The "reverse punch" or "Gyaku zuki" is the basic punch in Shotokan, Shotokai, Wadoryu, Chito-ryu, Goju Ryu etc. you must remember that most modern styles of Karate come from the teachings of Anko Itosu, Who tought amongst others, Gichin Funakoshi founder of shotokan.

It was him and his peers/students who developed the various styles we have today. The terminology and kata are fundementally the same across the board, including the "reverse punch". The only reason Shotokan seems to come up is because that was the style laid out by Funikoshi, and is more focused on the Basics then other syles. But the basic techniques of shotokan are the same in other styles.Just practised differently eg dept of stance, emphises on power\speed etc.

Even Kenpo Karate, which translates as kenpo, "China hand" (Kara te)
Rather then, "Empty hand" (Kara te). (The word is the same but with different meanings) has the trademark "reverse punch" as it's basic punch.

most modern Karate comes from the same place, Okinowa. The reverse punch was there in the days of "Te", The "mother art of kara te" and is still used in all styles.

This extends to other techniques aswell, you could pick up a book on Shotokan, TKD, and Wado Ryu. Look at the kata's and techniques in each book and see remarkable simularities.

Generally the styles of Karate we have today are just different interpretations of the same art "Te". Some styles diverged more then others from the original arts, like Kyokoshin. some stuck almost exactly to Funikoshi and co's teachings like Shotokan and Shotokai.

So pidgeonholing karate to shotokan is not really correct. As Karate in general all goes back to Okinowa. Except of course for Kenpo and maybe a few other "more rare" arts. Altough if you look at these, you will still see techniques such as the "reverse punch" at the core of the style.

Jimkel

As the boxer in the show says, "All we do is work on our punches". Of course A trained boxer is gonna have a great punch. In my opinion the best of it's type.

Must be remembered tough that boxing is tought mainly as a sport with rules. so it's hard to compare with hand techniques from other styles which would be illegal in the ring, Such as various ways of making a fist and other "punch" like techniques such as hammer strikes, chops, claws, gouges etc. They have evolved for two different purposes, One for knocking People out, the other for severely injuring vunerable targets on the body.

That in mind though I still would not like to step into a ring with a pro boxer, Kicks or no kicks his level of training and stamina alone would secure a victory. I think i'd need some BJJ to save me in that match.