Cash game hand advice

opr

6 max 2-4

I have about 360 villian covers and no reads on villian

2 limpers i make it 20 to go with AdKs

Only the button calls.

Flop all Diamonds ... 3d 9d kd.

First to act what should i do here ?

Opr

charlesanto

Bet 40...
Turn... Check, fold
River... Check, fold

Gholimoli

charlesanto wrote:

Bet 40...
Turn... Check, fold
River... Check, fold

u joking with this,your telling him to bet the pot there and then check fold the turn?????
he has TPTK with nut flush draw and this is your advice.
its horrible advice.

bet the pot or just under the pot on the flop.
call any raise from him and check/call the turn unless you improve.

if he just flat calls your flop bet then bet just over half the pot on the turn and call if he raises and check/call the river.

if he just flat calls your turn bet then check/call the river unless you improve.

charlesanto

Gholimoli wrote:

u joking with this,your telling him to bet the pot there and then check fold the turn?????
he has TPTK with nut flush draw and this is your advice.
its horrible advice.

bet the pot or just under the pot on the flop.
call any raise from him and check/call the turn unless you improve.

if he just flat calls your flop bet then bet just over half the pot on the turn and call if he raises and check/call the river.

if he just flat calls your turn bet then check/call the river unless you improve.

Sorry, didn't see the nut FD

ianmc38

charlesanto wrote:

Bet 40...
Turn... Check, fold
River... Check, fold

You're avin a giraffe!

I would bet the pot on the flop and probably 2/3 - full pot on the turn, then check call the river.

lazlo

Either check-call or check-raise the flop. Considering your own holding you'll have to hope that he'll pay to chase a losing hand(such as a weaker King or diamond)-By checking this treacherous flop you are giving him the licence to put money in the pot on a steal/semi-bluff as well as on the less likely range of holdings that have u beat.

If he has a set, flush, K-9 or AA then its just unlucky for you(however you still have outs). So your goal here is to get him to put more money in the pot, checking is probably the moost effective way to do this. If you lead he will probably fold the majority of hands that he would otherwise bet with in the instance of you checking.

Gholimoli

lazlo wrote:

Either check-call or check-raise the flop considering your own holding you have to hope that he'll pay to chase a losing hand-by checking this treacherous flop you are giving him the licence to put money in the pot on a steal on a semi-bluff as well as on the less likely range of holdings that have u beat.

If he has a set, flush, K-9 or AA then its just unlucky for you(however you still have outs). So your goal here is to get him to put more money in the pot, checking is probably the moost effective way to do this. If you lead he will probably fold the majority of hands that he would otherwise bet with in the instance of you checking.

this is not good advice either.
you need to build the pot here.
if he folds to your lead then so be it he has none of that and he is not going to put more money in.
you have a good hand with a draw to the nuts and you need to build the pot.

ianmc38

Checkraising here is horrible!

pok3rplaya

Flop: Bet 2/3 pot

Turn: bet 1/2 to 2/3 regardless of diamond or not. I'm leaning towards 1/2 pot so that we give Kd decent drawing odds.

River: check/call if no diamond, c/r AI if a diamond hits.

lazlo

ianmc38 wrote:

Checkraising here is horrible!

you're right gholi, potbuliding is the most important thing to do here however i honestly dont believe that leading will get you anywhere. the only cards he can call with(save the hands that already beat him) are high diamonds. Its unlikely that he would call a pot bet with even the Td. However he would take the betting lead here with almost anything ) a smooth call is a good move
Whatever card rolls off next youu should take the lead with a bet of about 60 may gives him the chance to chase a dead draw(something he is much more likely to do now that the pot is bigger).

By leading on the flop you are giving him the chance to get away from a few of the hands that may pay you off if a diamond lands.
The only hands you will find him calling/raising your pot bet with are made flushes, sets, AA, a king with a Qd QdQ, JdJ -- furthermore several of those holdings probably would have seen re-raises going in preflop. Certainly QQ and JJ would have been reraised.

In short I think taking the lead gives him the licence to get away from hands we want him to bet with as well as carte blanche to come over the top with hands that have us completely dominated. Its a case of minimising your potential loss and maxmising your gain.

Check-raising isnt a great move but it is preferable to leading.

Gholimoli

this is not true at all.
you have raised pre flop and now you check on all d flop with a K and you think your check is going to make him bet him T high flush draw?
he will more than likely check behind and if a another d falls on the turn and you bet he will most likely fold everything that he would have called with on the flop.
suppose he has something like KQ,KJ,or Kx there.
if you check he will check behind (most liekly on that board) whereas if you bet he will call you thinking his got top pair and putting you on a flush draw.
check raising here is bad becuase you will show how strong you are and the only hand that will call you is a hand that has you beat.

Bandana boy

Lead for 30 on flop
Lead for 75 on turn regardless of what hits
Only lead river if you have seen a diamond
if you get raised at any point call

Above would be pretty standard

I dont like check raising unless I am bluffing or have hit an unlikely monster which we are neither here

lazlo

Gholimoli wrote:

this is not true at all.
you have raised pre flop and now you check on all d flop with a K and you think your check is going to make him bet him T high flush draw?
he will more than likely check behind and if a another d falls on the turn and you bet he will most likely fold everything that he would have called with on the flop.
suppose he has something like KQ,KJ,or Kx there.
if you check he will check behind (most liekly on that board) whereas if you bet he will call you thinking his got top pair and putting you on a flush draw.
check raising here is bad becuase you will show how strong you are and the only hand that will call you is a hand that has you beat.

BTW: I am advocating a check-call here I dont particularly like the check-raise at all myself if you look at the last post you'll see that(sorry if its unclear, I am rather tired°

Yes I do. In fact I think that the check will prompt him to bet almost any holding he has. He has position the board has bad texture. If he has nothing we will be furnished with his attempt to steal. And its vain hope to pray that he has hit the top pair or that he holds a paint diamond card. With so little information its best to adopt a strategy that will make you some money most of the time and lose less money in the instances where you are behind.
What you are saying will make more money in certain circumstances but its relaint on very particular holdings. And as such you may win a bigger pot but the frequency of this score is much less than the small to average pots that you would sccop more often with the other approach.

cardshark202

opr wrote:

6 max 2-4

I have about 360 villian covers and no reads on villian

2 limpers i make it 20 to go with AdKs

Only the button calls.

Flop all Diamonds ... 3d 9d kd.

First to act what should i do here ?

Opr

Flop: lead for about the pot. If raised, shove.
Turn: If called on flop, lead for 2/3rd pot. If raised here, it is a tough spot, it depends on how much more it is to you but in general I think maybe fold. EDIT: On further thought I think maybe check-calling the turn may be best. I don't know really. It depends on opponent.
River: If a diamond river, lead for 1/2 pot, if not c/f is probably best, but again this depends on opponent

Gholimoli

lazlo wrote:

BTW: I am advocating a check-call here I dont particularly like the check-raise at all myself if you look at the last post you'll see that(sorry if its unclear, I am rather tired°

Yes I do. In fact I think that the check will prompt him to bet almost any holding he has. He has position the board has bad texture. If he has nothing we will be furnished with his attempt to steal. And its vain hope to pray that he has hit the top pair or that he holds a paint diamond card. With so little information its best to adopt a strategy that will make you some money most of the time and lose less money in the instances where you are behind.
What you are saying will make more money in certain circumstances but its relaint on very particular holdings. And as such you may win a bigger pot but the frequency of this score is much less than the small to average pots that you would sccop more often with the other approach.

the only hand that will take a stab at this flop if you check it to him ia hand that has no hope of making anything IMO.if thats the case thats the only money he will ever put in .
in the long run you are much better off building the pot here rather than trying to catch his one and only steal attempt.

luckylucky

On flop I agree with leading the flop and shoving if raised.

If u are flat called on flop and you miss the draw on turn I think it's a tricky decision. I certainly wouldn't want to bet if I thought there was a big risk of opponent putting me all-in and making me feel uncomfortable about calling. However I don't want to check either if I think I'm ahead and miss out on getting more money in the pot.

Would it be fair to say that your play on turn in this spot is going to be very opponent specific?
For me it is anyway - whether i check call or bet here depends on who I'm facing I think.

MrPillowTalk

I lead all streets, if at any point except the river he raises I reraise, if he made a flush I pay him off.

opr

I made it 35 on the flop , Villian raised to 100 and i shoved. He called showing 5d,6d and i didn't hit.

After wards i was talking with a freind about this hand and wasn't sure i did the right thing.
Two reasons i am only getting raised by a flush or a set and by shoving i am only getting called by a flush or set which both have me killed.
Also if he has a made flush or set it gives me less outs for my redraw.

He thinks i should have folded this to the raise on the flop. We have only put 55 in the pot ........... Why play for your stack here when at the moment all you have is TP and a draw that will only get thier about 1 in 4 times against a set or made flush. ?

Opr

opr

I made it 35 on the flop , Villian raised to 100 and i shoved. He called showing 5d,6d and i didn't hit.

After wards i was talking with a freind about this hand and wasn't sure i did the right thing.
Two reasons i think i am only getting raised by a flush or a set and by shoving i am only getting called by a flush or set which both have me killed.
Also if he has a made flush or set it gives me less outs for my redraw.

He thinks i should have folded this to the raise on the flop. We have only put 55 in the pot ........... Why play for your stack here when at the moment all you have is TP and a draw that will only get thier about 1 in 4 times ?

Opr

Lafortezza

MrPillowTalk wrote:

I lead all streets, if at any point except the river he raises I reraise, if he made a flush I pay him off.

Agree with this, if you bet and Villain raises, it's very possible he's doing with a pair+flush draw, but yo uhave the nut-pair+flush draw, aarrrr in!

NickyOD

I don't like the idea of automatically shoving this flop when raise. Exactly how often does anyone expect to get raised by anything other thana set or a made flush here? Almost never.

opr

NickyOD wrote:

I don't like the idea of automatically shoving this flop when raise. Exactly how often does anyone expect to get raised by anything other thana set or a made flush here? Almost never.

So do you think we should fold ?

Opr

insafehands

Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread here, but I've been in this situation before and generally check or CRAI. Any thoughts?

ish.

Mackie-70

Some pretty good advices here i see..i´ve been playing for couple of years now and its never easy:p although i´m winning player....found some pretty good free poker strategies here loldonkamentrs

sikes

Mackie-70 wrote:

Some pretty good advices here i see..i´ve been playing for couple of years now and its never easy:p although i´m winning player....found some pretty good free poker strategies here lolo_trickdu

very clever, are you in mensa?

where do these fukwits congeal?

Gus Ivey

ianmc38 wrote:

You're avin a giraffe!

I would bet the pot on the flop and probably 2/3 - full pot on the turn, then check call the river.

like that