Buying An Engagement Ring

TontoMurphy

Hi all,
finally building up the courage to propose to my darling girlfriend.. Been seeing her now for just over 3 years and going to bite the bullet... i have an idea what sort of ring she's looking for (we're always joking about getting married when her sister and her sisters boyfriend are around so its been pretty easy to get find out what she'd like on the QT :cool: )

I've seen all the posts about ring prices and i know you can't put a price on the perfect ring but as a figure to work to, i budgeting around €2,000 or so. I have a couple of ideas (diamond princess cut, white gold etc) but don't know where to start looking to buy the feckin thing!!!

Appelbys have an air of being really expensive (maybe i'm wrong) and i don;t want to walk in a try to explain what i want only for some snotty nose assistant to look at me wierd because i'm not spending enough money.

Anyhow, i need ideas where to look in Dublin or even the northeast...

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to do this some time in the first week or 2 of the new year so giving a good bit of time (plus waiting until all the questions have blown over during the Christmas period)

oh yeah, how can i tell her ring size from the rings she has at the minute (might just borrow one to take to the jewellers)

Ta all

Ruu_Old

Theres a Weddings/Marriage forum on boards, theres a thread in there called Wedding rings and bands links, it should give you some ideas. Best of luck with the engagement.

TontoMurphy

Thanks Ruu, having a nosey now...

TontoMurphy

Hi everyone, had a look at the weddings/marriage forum but most is about actually organising the actual wedding... any help on the engagement??

ladybirdirl

Hey there,

Firstly yes do take one of her rings and take it to the jewellers on the QT - don't take one that she wears on her middle finger though obviously.

Appelby's are actually quite good and they're not really snotty. They have a good selection and they will usually knock a bit off the listed price. Another great place is Weirs, they ahve great diamond buyers and get fabulous stuff.

Failing that there's a jewellers at the top of Grafton St beside the Butlers chocolate place- I think it might be burke's or something - they are also excellent and they do antique jewellry so you could get a gorgeous piece there.

Finally it depends on the type of girl as to what you actually buy - does she wear silver/gold now

if silver - get ring of white gold (it's also very popular the last few years)
If gold - get gold.

Also as you say you can get an idea of the type of setting etc she would like from her mates and stuff

So good luck with it and congratulations. Oh and put a bit of effort into the proposal - us girls love a bit of that

Ladybird

Mitzy

O'Connor's jewelers in Harolds Cross are wholesalers who are dealing with the public now. They are near the dog track. I was down there a few months ago & they sell their diamond rings at 50% of the retail price so I would definately recommond you go there first before you go to Applebys. They have a huge showroom and will spend lots of time with you helping you to choose. Very helpful staff.:D

snb

What about a token ring ? You could go to a run of the mill jeweller's or even Argos and get a dainty ring with a 'diamond 'on it. That way you ahve something to put on her hand when she says yes ( & she will !) and you look like you have put thought into it/mean it.

Then you can both look together and find the perfect size & style ring.

GAA widow

snb wrote:

What about a token ring ? You could go to a run of the mill jeweller's or even Argos and get a dainty ring with a 'diamond 'on it. That way you ahve something to put on her hand when she says yes ( & she will !) and you look like you have put thought into it/mean it.

Then you can both look together and find the perfect size & style ring.

I agree with the token ring idea too - there are a gazillion different types of princess cut diamond rings with white gold bands.

If you are absolutely adamant that you want to buy her "the" ring first please bear in mind that she will also have to wear a wedding band with her engagement ring (I know I'm skipping waaay ahead!). so bear in mind the thickness of the band (not too clunky).
Also if she does not want a space to be between the engagement ring and her wedding band you will have to get a princess cut diamond in a high setting if she wants the ring to sit flush with the band. Otherwise she'll have to get a wedding band specially made to fit alongside the ring, which is easily done but a bit of hassle.

The Sweeper

Token ring is a great idea these days. Hubbie proposed to me using what is now my wedding band - a plain 18c white gold ring. I did a lot of browsing and then chose my own engagement ring about eight months later and bought it with him on Christmas Eve.

TontoMurphy

Hi Everyone, some great ideas. never thought about the whole "token ring" idea to seriously before but it makes sense..

GAA Widow, good thinking about the wedding ring too. never crossed my mind about the 2 rings fitting together.

Ladybirdirl and mitzy; thanks for the stop recommendations.. had forgotten completely about weirs and will definitely check out that place in Harolds cross.

Starting to panic now and this thing is months away...

smileygal

don't worry you'll be grand!

I'm a yellow gold girl but am actually going for a platinum e-ring. I let him know that. after he chose what he thought was 'the' ring he was so worried about me liking it/not, he described it and when i was sure i liked the middle stone but not the rest he emailed a photo (I didn't like it!)

Not saying this to scare you but to let you know that he said he would much prefer me to not like the 1st one and be ultra happy for rest of our lives wearing the final one!! He was upset but is now over it and really REALLY happy about the one we chose together. It was also a really romantic thing to do.A lovely memory.

RE*AC*TOR

Appblebys are lovely. And 2k is nothing to sniff at. they certainly won't look down their nose at you. Their rings are all handmade. Its quite important for the band etc.

Probably the most important thing to do is find out the size. This can be very difficult without giving away the game.

As for the ring, if you know what your GF likes - stick with that. I was lucky in that we both kind of liked the same thing.

Obviously with diamonds, Cut, Clarity, Colour and Carat are very important. Stick with the reputable jewelers. Get a valuation done.

Cut - The reflective properties of the diamond. In general - Ideal - Premium - Very Good - Good - Fair & Poor - be aware of the environment in which you are looking at the ring in, many spotlights tend to make diamonds sparkle a lot.

Carat - For 2k you should be able to get a half carat to 0.75. If there is more than one diamond, the carat is actually the total carat. For example you could probably afford a 1 carat ring if you had 3 0.33 carat diamonds (not entirely sure) - the price is exponential - doesn't go up linearly.

Clarity - you won't be able to afford a flawless diamond - few of us would in fact. You will probably be looking at the VSI1 to SI2 grades. Don't bother with I1 or I2 grades, in fact most jewellers won't sell them.

It goes like this:

F - flawless
IF - internally flawless
VVSI1/2 - very very small inclusions
VSI1/2 - very small inclusions
SI1/2 - small inclusions

You should only be able to see the imperfections in any of the above grades with a 10x (or more) magnifying glass. The closer to Flawless the better, but also more expensive. Weight it up with the other properties to find a nice balance.

Colour - DEF - colourless - GHI - near colourless. Anything more than that and they start getting a yellow hue. Again it affects the price. Again, balance it with the other aspects.

Best place to start would be to go into appelbys. Tell them your budget, and what you have in mind. They'll bring you out a selection and you can say what you like or don't like. You'll get an idea, then you can look elsewhere if you like.

Fey!

Reactors breakdown is pretty good.

GAA Widow also had an excellent point about the thickness of the band - I'm a retail jeweller and have to say that to people every day! Another thing to bear in mind is that the head of the ring (where the diamond is set) doesn't sit out too far from the band itself; if it does, then it can be very difficult to get a ring to sit flush beside it, and shaped wedding bands are not always the nicest.

Another thing to remember is that if you see a ring with a yellow gold shank (band), the shank can quite easily be replaced with a white gold one - the jeweller you are buying off should do it at cost as they're getting the sale of the ring. The head of the ring will normally be in white gold or platinum anyway, as white shows the diamond off better than yellow.

€2,250 should get you about a 0.50ct (c. 4.5mm wide) H-I VS2 princess cut in 18kt gold (although prices are fluctuating a bit at the moment). If you're wary about the ring size, aim for a size too big rather than a size to small, so that she can at least get it on her finger to see it! Any competent jeweller should be able to tell you what can be sized and what can't.

If her hand is big, then consider getting something with a tapered bagette diamond or the like on the edge to spread the ring better across the finger, or perhaps consider a 3 stone (remember that a 3 stone totalling 0.50ct shouldn't cost as much as a solitaire with 0.50ct. A 3 stone princess cut 18kt ring will probably come in around €1,000).

Hope this helps.

Best of luck!

EDIT: I know that this will sound harsh, but you get what you pay for. If something looks too good to be true, it possibly is, and quite commonly it's the quality of the setting. Have seen several recently where the diamond was quite nice, but the mount was thin or cheap, and the stones were about to fall out.

It totally isn't true that you get what you pay for in a jwellers in Ireland.There is something in the region of a 400% mark up.
The difference in value available in other countries is massive, and frankly makes me feel like we are being taken for mugs.
Also most a lot of diamonds sold in Ireland are not colourless and of passable quality and in most cases that doesn't make a hell of alot of difference to the untrained eye.

I wouldn't worry too much about herself not liking the ring, because I think most diamond rings are gorgeous, and you have a strong possibility of finding one she she will adore.
If you know that she has the idea in her head that it is romantic for the man to produce the ring then go with it.

BTW Why did you feel you needed to build up your courage?Surly you know she will say yes, what other doubts enter the heads of proposers?

Here is a sample of what ebay has to offer in your line and for your budget.

[HTML]http://cgi.ebay.com/1-45-CT-DIAMOND-ENGAGEMENT-RING-PRINCESS-CUT_W0QQitemZ270053691363QQihZ017QQcategoryZ92906QQcmdZViewItem[/HTML]

Fey!

OP - Sorry to go O/T, but I have to put this misconception right.

Moonbaby - that mark up depends on where you shop. Also, to say that jewellers in Ireland don't sell colourless diamonds really is talking out of your behind. Having travelled a lot for trade fairs and training, I can tell you that you'll probably buy cleaner stones off the shelf here than in England or Antwerp!

If the countries you're talking about getting better value in are Turkey and other parts of the Med, I know a lot of people who've been badly burned. As for Dubai and New York, bear in mind that you're not paying the 21% VAT or other taxes we have to pay here, and if customs catch you they'll hammer you. Also, you'll find it very difficult to insure these items unless you have a receipt to say you've paid the VAT, as most jewellers will no longer value them and the insurance companies don't have to cover them as they are goods illegally in the country. Also, despite certification (45 companies certify, 4 do it right), a lot of the time the cut qualities are rubbish.

I listen to the rubbish you spouted every day from "Internet Gemmologists" who read a piece on the net and believe that they know everything about the jewellery business.

End of rant. Apologies to all for having to read it!

fozzle

I did a gemology course (admittedly a short one) as part of my degree and the stones in my engagement ring appear good to me and my magnifying glass. To say that most stones sold here are not colourless is rubbish, even to the unttrained eye a coloured stone does not appear colourless, and there are certainly enough people with basic gemology and/or crystalography to notice if stones are not what they are what they are being sold as. And in case you didn't know, gem-quality coloured diamonds are perfectly viable precious stones, not everyone wants the traditional colourless diamond.

RE*AC*TOR

When I bought my fiancée's enagagment ring, the guy who made the ring was a friend of my family. He made the ring and only charged me the cost to him to make it. I guarantee you the difference wasn't 400%. Maybe 20%.

trotter_inc

Mitzy wrote:

O'Connor's jewelers in Harolds Cross are wholesalers who are dealing with the public now. They are near the dog track. I was down there a few months ago & they sell their diamond rings at 50% of the retail price so I would definately recommond you go there first before you go to Applebys. They have a huge showroom and will spend lots of time with you helping you to choose. Very helpful staff.:D

Hi Mitzy, do you have a phone number or an address for O' Connors? I just got engaged on Saturday night and my fiancé (sounds weird saying that) and I are going up to Dublin on Friday to have a look at some rings...

Is it a proper shop they have there?

Thanks for your help...

Fey!

Trotter - have you tried Egans in Cork, or any of the antique shops? I know that there are a few very good ones in your area.

trotter_inc

Fey! wrote:

Trotter - have you tried Egans in Cork, or any of the antique shops? I know that there are a few very good ones in your area.

No, havent tried there and you're the not the first to mention that place either! Thanks for the Fey, will look in to it... will mention it to the fiancé, she should know where it is, Im only living down here a few months now...

trotter_inc

trotter_inc wrote:

Hi Mitzy, do you have a phone number or an address for O' Connors?

Found their website, thanks

shooks

Hi All

Some great advice given. Just a few questions. My girlfriend says she doesn't like white gold cause it just looks like silver. Does this mean Gold it is or are there other options. Going to Dublin this week to find a ring (meant to be buying presents so I have to sneak off as I want it to be a surprise) My main problem is this

Every ring looks pretty similar to me!! My girlfriend only really wears big over the top rings that she buys every week for a few euro. How am I meant to know whats nice? I want to get here a round solitaire but thats about as far as I have got.

Going to start with Applebys. Has anyone managed to bring them down in price much. I'm taking cash so I hope this will help.

Any advice would be great.

trotter_inc

shooks wrote:

Hi All

Some great advice given. Just a few questions. My girlfriend says she doesn't like white gold cause it just looks like silver. Does this mean Gold it is or are there other options. Going to Dublin this week to find a ring (meant to be buying presents so I have to sneak off as I want it to be a surprise) My main problem is this

Every ring looks pretty similar to me!! My girlfriend only really wears big over the top rings that she buys every week for a few euro. How am I meant to know whats nice? I want to get here a round solitaire but thats about as far as I have got.

Going to start with Applebys. Has anyone managed to bring them down in price much. I'm taking cash so I hope this will help.

Any advice would be great.

There are 3 colour options:

1. Gold
2. White gold: silver in colour, it is gold with a silver finish on it, jeweller told me it usually needs to be clean and repolished about once a year, costs about €20.
3. Platinum: most expensive, silver in colour, doesnt need to be cleaned/polished every year.

Most of the jewellers are very friendly and will really help you pick one out that your girlfriend will like. If its just a solitaire you're after there will be loads to choose from, most of them are simple enough and look similar...to me anyway!

If I was you though I would definitley make the trip out to O Connors in Harolds Cross, I bought one there last week, you will get much more for your money since they make their own rings and supply them to high street shops... www.jsocjewellers.ie/ The ring I got would have cost double the price in Applebys! Bernadette in O Connors is very helpful...

Good luck with it....

shooks

Thanks trotter

I will take a run out to O'Connors. Does anyone know if they can be haggled down in price or is the price given final. Are they of the same quality as the likes of applebys? Sorry for all thye questions but I've had to sell my soul to afford this ring so I want to make sure I get it right!!

Cheers

fintan

Sorry to hijack thread, but can anyone recommend someone to custom make / design wedding rings?

Thanks

GAA widow

Fey! wrote:

OP - Sorry to go O/T, but I have to put this misconception right.

Moonbaby - that mark up depends on where you shop. Also, to say that jewellers in Ireland don't sell colourless diamonds really is talking out of your behind. Having travelled a lot for trade fairs and training, I can tell you that you'll probably buy cleaner stones off the shelf here than in England or Antwerp!

If the countries you're talking about getting better value in are Turkey and other parts of the Med, I know a lot of people who've been badly burned.

I agree with Fey - initially i thought getting a diamond abroad and getting it set would be a great idea....until i heard that a friend's work colleague had done this and the diamond fell out of the setting. I mean, where do you go from there? Back on the plane to the diamond supplier or argue with the goldsmith from whom you did not purchase the diamond?

At least if you go to a reputable jeweller you are well looked after, you are given a valuation cert and you can call in if you've a query or just want a quick polish, which is usual complimentary. If you get your ring insured they will service it for you. Also, you will generally get a bit of a discount off your wedding bands if you buy them from the same place. Sure, there is a bit of a mark up in comparison with other countries, but getting engaged is very special and girls, aren't we worth the few bob extra just the once?!;)

GAA widow

shooks wrote:

I want to get here a round solitaire but thats about as far as I have got.

Hi Shooks,
From looking at rings in recent months, a "tiffany setting" seems to be the most popular setting for solitaires at the moment - I have one and I love it!

TontoMurphy

Hi All,

thanks for all the updates... heading to O'Connors in the morning to have a look at what they a have try to find something she'd like...

Post later..

Ishindar

Ireland is a total rip off for engagement rings. I got mine here http://www.diamondsonweb.com/ i spent 950e, i have seen the exact same ring of similar quality in several jewelers here for 3,500-4,000e. I highly recommend http://www.diamondsonweb.com/

Antonin Yuram

A couple more things to note -

Ask the jeweler if the diamond is laboratory-created gemstones or naturally mined. Stones created in a lab look exactly like mined stones but are generally less expensive. Jewelers are required to identify lab-created stones. If you don't know your jeweler personally, ask to see all documentation relating to the diamond.

If you are buying a naturally mined stone, make sure to ask if it has been treated. Heating, dyeing or bleaching can improve a stone's appearance or may help it to last longer. Some treatments are permanent. Others may change the stone so that it requires special care. You'll need to know the care your stones require to keep them looking great and to maintain their value.

In relation to the metal you choose, beware that most high-street jewelers add a thin metal coating to their rings (i can't remember which metal) to make them extra shiny under the lights in their shop. this coating will wear off after a few months and the ring will appear tarnished.

Scruff

Do you need to make an appointment with any of these Jewellers or can ye just walk in and start looking?

trotter_inc

Scruff wrote:

Do you need to make an appointment with any of these Jewellers or can ye just walk in and start looking?

Nope... you can just walk in... Im sure once you mention "engagement ring" they'll only be delighted to help you

Fey!

"Ireland is a total rip off for engagement rings..........."

Did you pay the VAT and taxes on your ring when it arrived? Or did you just smuggle it in? It's the same as people bringing pieces in from Dubai - it's 40% cheaper as there are no taxes. However, it is still illegal to bring them in without declaring them.

"A couple more things to note -

Ask the jeweler if the diamond is laboratory-created gemstones or naturally mined. Stones created in a lab look exactly like mined stones but are generally less expensive. Jewelers are required to identify lab-created stones. If you don't know your jeweler personally, ask to see all documentation relating to the diamond."

Firstly, what you are refering to is Moissanite, not diamond. Selling it as diamond is illegal, and it is very difficult to tell the difference if you don't know what you're doing. Also, wrt the 'documentation', do you honestly believe that a jeweller is going to show you the receipt from his supplier? Not all diamonds have certs, despite the BS being flouted by several high profile jewellery shops. Get your facts right.

"If you are buying a naturally mined stone, make sure to ask if it has been treated. Heating, dyeing or bleaching can improve a stone's appearance or may help it to last longer. Some treatments are permanent. Others may change the stone so that it requires special care. You'll need to know the care your stones require to keep them looking great and to maintain their value. "

HTHP, lasering, etc must all be declared if the vendor knows that a stone has been treated. As for maintaining your stones, fairy liquid does the trick very well (gemstones attact grease, such as soap, which just needs to be cleaned off).

BTW, despite diamonds being the hardest substance on the planet, it is still possible to chip, crack or cleave them.

"In relation to the metal you choose, beware that most high-street jewelers add a thin metal coating to their rings (i can't remember which metal) to make them extra shiny under the lights in their shop. this coating will wear off after a few months and the ring will appear tarnished."
This coating is called Rhodium Plating, and it's used on white gold, not yellow and usually not on platinum. The reason for it's use on white gold is because the predominant metal in 18kt white gold is gold (18 parts gold, which is a bright YELLOW colour, and 6 parts other metals to strengthen and colour it). The ring is plated to make it whiter, and usually needs to be redone every 2 years or so.

Any chance that ill-informed people would stop showing their ignorance by talking rubbish about something they obviously know little about. If you want to be a jewellery expert, then go and do a gemmology or diamond graders course and spend 12 years working in the industry. Reading stuff on the internet and mis-interpreting it does NOT make you an expert, despite what you may think yourself! :eek:

MOTHERTRUCKER

TontoMurphy wrote:

Hi All,

thanks for all the updates... heading to O'Connors in the morning to have a look at what they a have try to find something she'd like...

Post later..

How did you get on??????????

Has anyone any experience with O Connors?
Are they ALL they're cracked up to be?

I need to know before i make the big trek up to the big smoke!

hunnymonster

Fey, your points are valid but are very aggressively made. I don't think there is anything wrong with people expressing opinions even if they haven't worked for 12 years in an industry. I'm not aware of anyone here falsly claiming to be professionals.

Not everyone wants to start their lives together in debt for the sake of something sparkly. For example, from an ethical and professional (I'm a materials scientist) point of view the idea of a lab produced stone sits more easily with me. I realise it may not be "worth" as much to anyone but me but I would be happy with it which is all that matters.*




In response to the past post. I have no idea if it is true or not but a guy I was talking to in a pub one night (who worked in a jewellery store chain) said a discount of about 15% is usual.









*I should qualify, that I have asperations to owing an engagement ring, he hasn't asked so it's not a practical consideration for me yet...........:D

trotter_inc

MOTHERTRUCKER wrote:

How did you get on??????????

Has anyone any experience with O Connors?
Are they ALL they're cracked up to be?

I need to know before i make the big trek up to the big smoke!

I bought an engagement ring in O Connors in Novemeber, excellent price...

Got it valued independant of O Connors for insurance purposes and its valued at DOUBLE what I paid for it...

They've a great selection up there, service is great too...

Fey!

Hunnymonster; sorry if you felt that my last post was aggressive. The reason for it is that I've seen so many threads and posts which have extremely bad advice, and also an even bigger amount basically saying that ALL jewellers in Ireland are expensive and rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.

MOTHERTRUCKER

Well done Fey!

I totally agree with your points.

So tell us all.......... Where would you go to buy an engagement ring?

i.e where do you work and what comments do you have on O Connors?

Fey!

I'm based in Galway myself, working in a small antique shop in the city centre (naming it would be in violation of advertising rules here, I believe).

I'm not familiar with O'Connors retail, but I do know some of the family in the manufacturing side and find them good to deal with (my uncle used to be the foreman in O'Connors many moons ago before he went out on his own). My parents bought their ring there back in the 60's!!! O'Connors are around a long time, and there can only be one reason for that.

MOTHERTRUCKER

Fey! wrote:

I'm based in Galway myself, working in a small antique shop in the city centre (naming it would be in violation of advertising rules here, I believe).

I'm not familiar with O'Connors retail, but I do know some of the family in the manufacturing side and find them good to deal with (my uncle used to be the foreman in O'Connors many moons ago before he went out on his own). My parents bought their ring there back in the 60's!!! O'Connors are around a long time, and there can only be one reason for that.

Thanks for your honesty Fey!

I have been into O Connors recently and was very impressed with the
show rooms. Not just your ordinary Jewellers, its like entering fort knox.
Private consultaion the works. Seem very professional.
Even thou i had done my research on diamonds and engagement rings prior to the appointment i found them very sincere and helpful.
(Not patrionising like most other jewellers, that don't even bother explaining all the terminologies.)
My impressions about their pricing structure, i found a bit unusual, all the rings she showed me had a small sticker stating the Carat and price, but the girl explained to me
" oh no thats only the RRP just devide that by 2 and thats our selling price, we are wholesalers and sell at wholesale price".

O.K. This seems fine, and believe me they have some very fine jewellery.
Its just i still can find just as good Cut, Carat, Colour and Clarity and the same price elsewhere.

For example she showed me a Platinum 0.72 Carat Diamond solitare, Color G Tiffany style ring for RRP. Euro 10,000. Which they would sell at E5000.

But i can buy this ring here
http://www.diamond-ireland.com/engagement-rings-dublin.html

for the same price

I would appreciate your comments or recommendations Fey!?

My gut feeling is to go with the reputable company O Connors!
But at the end of the day its a hell of a lot of money.

Fey!

2 things you haven't mentioned there are clarity and cut. The clarity refers to any internal marks which may block light going through the stone (that's a very basic way of putting it), and the cut refers to the shape and finish of the stone (is it round, square, oval, etc., and is it well proportioned, as each cut has "ideal" proportions (very technical, and very difficult to appraise for a layman)). There is also fluorescense in diamonds - not good in high colours, but no harm in low colours - but in a G a slight fluorescence is no harm (don't get too into this, as you'll end up with a lot of information in your head which will take away from the ultimate question: "Do I like the ring on my hand?" which, to me, is the most important thing. Rule of thumb is that if the diamond is nice and lively and bright, it's probably good!

Another thing to watch out for is the make of the ring (quality of workmanship) - I've seen a lot from abroad (outside of Europe) and a few from "budget" jewellers - remember you get what you pay for.

I put a post up a few weeks ago which someone stickied; it might be worth a read.

PLEASE NOTE: None of my comments above are meant in a condescending manner. I just can't think of a politer way of phrasing them whilst still getting my point across.