E240 Avantgarde ( 2.6 L V6 ) - Opinions

HungryJoey

Hello, My father is due to replace his 99' Mercedes E240 Avantgarde ( 2.4L V6 ). He was thiking about bringing in a 01-02 S type jaguar 3L V6 but decided its too much hassle. He was offered an 02 ( new model ) E240 Avantgarde 2.6L V6 today, That is also on carzone. One of his mates happens to be selling it. Lovely spec including Leather seats, Electric seats, Heated seats etc.. He can get it for 24K Hopefully. The only thing is it has 90K on the clock ? Is that a problem with these mercs and what should he look out for ?

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=527329 IMO its a nice example of an Eclass. There are plenty of them out there, But many boring and poor elegance models.

What are peoples general view on the new Model E class mercs ? Any other suggestions regarding cars of similar class. A 3 Series Coupe was a consideration accept for the lack of automatics ( he wants an Auto ) he was put off. My step mother who will be driving it most of the time will be doing little millage in it herself, In and out of work everyday ( 2-3 Mile drive ) But it will be taken down to the country alot of weekends. They love their current E240 for driving down in, Beautiful car to drive, Plenty of power from that silky smooth V6. And These new Model E class' are supposedly even comfier. My dad drives a TDi passat in and out of work everyday but for herself, It'll have to be an auto.

Suggestions and Opinions please ?

unkel

Lovely car. The right spec too. 2002 was the only year in the last couple of decades that an E-class was actually a better car than a 5-series. I wouldn't worry about the mileage too much except for resale reasons

HungryJoey wrote:

It'll have to be an auto

Of course. Why the hell does the carzone ad incorrectly state that it it a manual?

HungryJoey

Hmm good. Well I wouldnt worry about resale value, more then likely they'll keep it for a good few years, Also day to day basis very little millage will be put on. It will be driven up north and down around the country here and there, But still. It shouldn't add too much millage.

She / He really enjoyed driving the Old E240, Plenty of poke considering the size of the car and ease to drive. Father also enjoyed taken it for a quick spin using the tip tronic, Looks like the new E class doesn't have that feature as standard on the avantgarde spec for some reason like the old Model ?

Is there anything in perticular that they should look out for in a car like this ? I know their Old E class had a few things here and there, Ball joints going and an issue with the SRS. But never was too bad other then that.

UPON further reading, It does have tiptronic, When in " D " you nudge left or right to go up and down ? Does that sound right ?

Hj

bazz26

I'm not gone on Mercs these days. They are no where as good as they used to be since the Americans bought them. There legendary build quality and reliability is not what it used to be.

If I had this choice and money to spend I would go with a similar aged BMW 5 Series. The prettiest BMW for years imo.

Here is a nice example which seems to be well equipped even has a TV and tiptronic box:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=446633

I suppose it really depends on the person driving it. If they want a very comfortable cruiser then the Merc is probably better suited. If they are a keen driver then they will choose the BMW.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

I'm not gone on Mercs these days. They are no where as good as they used to be since the Americans bought them

Merc actually bought the Americans

I agree, quality assurance has been a big issue. Things have started to look better recently

junkyard

I'd buy a 5 series BMW any day over a E class Mercedes, if fact I have one, Mercedes doesn't even come close to BMW on so many levels. Just make sure you buy the right spec car, a 525 at least with leather and preferably M-Tech bumpers etc., they look stunning and handle even better and have a great sports auto gearbox too. If anything the E39 is an even better car than the new 5 series as far as I'm concerned.

bazz26

Looking at the likes of Cazone, etc though it is hard to find a 2002 520i/525i with leather or M Tech kit. Thanks to VRT it seemed to be too expensive to order when new. Imo an executive car without leather trim is pointless.

HungryJoey

IMO the E39 is a gorgeous, Mean looking car that has them great 2.5L S6 engines in them. But as far as my father is concerned he doesn't seem to have much interest in them, Possibly because the new model is out a long time now.

I hear what you's say about the new E Class and its doubtful reliability, I read alot about how poor mercedes and not only mercedes ( Volkswagen etc.. ) have gone down these days regarding reliability.

There isn't much talk about E class merc on this forum thats why I asked the question what are they really like and is it a wise move going from the 95-99 model to the new model. Although I am aware there is an 06 version slightly facelifted but I'd imagine there isn't too much between them all.

I'll give it a mention to him self about a BMW although I know he isn't looking for a truely lovely sporting machine, Which BMW tends to have but rather a comfy cruiser that has enough poke to be able to push down the accelerator.

Does anybody know did the 02-06 model have Xenon's as standard on Avantgarde ? I am told from the Mercedes Irish site that the new facelifted model comes standard with Xenon's if you buy the avantgarde spec. Was it the same for the 02-06 model ? IT would be very nice if it did.

Hj

MercMad

The W211 E Class came out in 2002, and all the Avantgarde models had Xenon's, LED rear lamps, half leather and sports suspension as standard. They cost 5k more than a Classic and 2.5k more than an Elegance !

I personally would not buy a 2002 model as they gave a lot of trouble initially and whilst after 4 years and 90k most would be sorted out, the world is your oyster so spend more and buy an improved '03 car with less miles !

The MY07 facelist currently on sale looks very very similar, with wheels and bumpers being the main difference although the grille, lamps and bonnet have also changed you'd hardly notice it. The real change is under the skin with thousands of modifications to improive quality and reliability !

I agree with the lads that the E39 5 series is worth a look, though we've had two here at work that gave their fair share of trouble too, one a gearbox at 45,000 miles + 2 immobilisewr faults that left the car stranded. There have been passenger airbag faults as well as failed a/c on both cars !

Still the fact remains that they are quality cars with lovely engines, underpowered in anything under 2.5 litres. They do look lovely, a bit dated, and they drive every bit as good as the current one !

unkel

HungryJoey wrote:

is it a wise move going from the 95-99 model to the new model

Yes it is. It might look very similar to the previous model but it is much improved. As the others said, be aware of quality issues but they should all have been fixed (under warranty) by now

Personally I would go E39, but there is a lot in favour of the Merc too. €25k for the BMW is a lot of money for what now clearly is the "old" model

HungryJoey

Thanks for the info lads. I'll pass it on Nice to know too it has Xenon's.

Now, I wonder does anybody here have an Eclass similar to one my father is after ? Get some personal reviews...

Hj

maidhc

HungryJoey wrote:

Nice to know too it has Xenon's.

Considering the age of the car, is replacing the xenon "bulbs" a big expense?

HungryJoey

Ok Was just speaking to him, He's getting the car this saturday for a drive for the day. So we will see then how it goes.

I'm not too sure about the xenon's, I presume they have already been changed ? What is the average cost of replacing them bulbs anyway ?

Hj

Captain Trips

My sincere advice is avoid the 02 and possibly most of 03 W211's (new shape E). They were built at the time of the big merger, strikes at Daimler plants and had lots of electronic problems. If they are all taken care of then fire ahead, but they did have a LOT of problems (even down to screws not being tightened properly on bonnets as new, loose sunroof, etc., ).

Xenons are expensive but worth it if you drive at night (not a lot of choice really for winter!) - can be a few hundred for them.

Late 03 would be a good bet, check the chassis code and put it in here:
http://www.mbclub.ru/mb/vin/?lng=eng
...and it will give you the original standard and fitted options when the car as sold, you'll see exactly about leather, xenons, COMAND, etc., . God knows why a website in Russia has all that info, but there you go (it is accurate, it is referenced a lot on www.mbclub.co.uk, www.mbworld.org, etc., ).

Also, I don't think it is actually "tiptronic" - they left right is just change gear ratios, except not through the traditional gate on older models for going D-4-3-2-1 (e.g., W210 and older). It's not like the SMGII or Porsche systems, for example, but it is convenient and can do thigns like if you hold it left, it will go to the smallest ratio possible at that speed. I wouldn't go racing M3s with it

that price is a steal though, if it's been driven for 90k, it can't have had too many problems!

HungryJoey

Thanks for all the advice

I'll pass it on.

Hj

MercMad

Late 03 would be a good bet, check the chassis code and put it in here:
http://www.mbclub.ru/mb/vin/?lng=eng
...and it will give you the original standard and fitted options when the car as sold, you'll see exactly about leather, xenons, COMAND, etc., . God knows why a website in Russia has all that info, but there you go (it is accurate, it is referenced a lot on www.mbclub.co.uk, www.mbworld.org, etc., ).

..........that website is handy but it is NOT accurate. It does not interpret all the data card codes correctly and cannot deal with duplicate accessorie packs !

The gearbox, like Captain Trips mentions, IS tiptronic and does as Captain mentions i.e hold it left it will select the lowest available, hold it right it will select the next one up and "D". You can nudge right or left to gain either the next lowest or the next highest !

It does not give you the same sensation as the BMW auto which WILL try to select the ratio you want if at all possible ! The Benz is lazier whilst the BM' feels more urgent !

The BMW SMG is a totally different kettle of fish altogether ! This is a manual gearbox which can shift electronically, it is not a fluid driven planetray automatic as we know it !

Most of this info is redundant anyway as 90% of folk will toy around with the tipshift when they get it and then leave it in "D" for the rest of their lives. The only time I ever use it on my '03 CLK is when approaching a roundabout quite fast I will hold it left, let the engine do some of the breaking and assuming there is no traffic I am in the right gear to punch it out and around................all very juvenile I admit !!

Xenon lights do not have a lifetime issue light regular bulbs, I have not heard of anyone having to replace them so I would not worry about that aspect !

If you had a friendly dealer they could run the VIN number and display any warranty work that had been done, you could spot repeatative faults or big issues perhaps !

Good luck !

Captain Trips

MercMad

- RE: gearbox


Is that right? I thought that the MB box is "Speedtronic" or something; it's not actually selecting individual ears when you puish left and right but it's changing the regular ratio at which the box changes up or down.

I suppose you do "tip" it left and right, but it likely makes no difference at all to the setting when kickdown as the box will pick it's gear anyway. My exp is from 02 and not in a W209 so maybe it different.

I find people refer to it (the MB one) as tiptronic whereas what that means IMHO is the Porsche or SMG system where you are actually selecting the gear itself and you choose when to change.

I found the russian site accurate for mine anyway

HungryJoey

Ok so heres the verdict. Looks like he is taking it after all. Has it for the weekend and he is thrilled with it. Main reason being, although the high milleage, He brought it to a local Mercedes specilialist, Who deals with ECU, and mechanical issues and knows these from inside out, Said he hasnt seen such a good condition merc under 50K. Mechanically it was sound and no errors brought up when he was doing various tests through the ECU.

He loved the drive, and he has a few buyers for his old 99 E240.

Will post again soon to let you know for definete how it goes.

Hj

junkyard

Well I suppose Mercedes appeals to the older generation who remember them as a quality marque but it has to be said if he was 20 years younger he'd be buying a BMW.:)

unkel

junkyard wrote:

Well I suppose Mercedes appeals to the older generation who remember them as a quality marque but it has to be said if he was 20 years younger he'd be buying a BMW.:)

Bollix

Maybe not for you or for me, but there's an awful lot to be said for current generation Mercedes-Benz cars. Their styling has never been beaten by any other car. Simple, elegant and timeless are other words that spring to mind. It is very sad imho that the image now is less than it used to be

junkyard

Mercedes made their bed and now they have to lie in it. I find it very hard to forgive Mercedes for shafting their customers a few years ago by cutting back in quality and still selling their cars at overly inflated prices which effectively took their loyal customers for a ride. I personally don't like Mercedes styling since the mid-nineties and, as far as I'm concerned its worse their getting. My gf has a 04 SL 350 and I tried in vain to get her to buy a BMW 645 but she had this thing in her head that Mercedes was the ultimate car to own and that was final, I still think the older generation think Mercedes are the be all and end all of cars and some of this brain washing has rubbed off on the younger generation.:)

Squirrel

junkyard wrote:

Mercedes made their bed and now they have to lie in it. I find it very hard to forgive Mercedes for shafting their customers a few years ago by cutting back in quality and still selling their cars at overly inflated prices which effectively took their loyal customers for a ride. I personally don't like Mercedes styling since the mid-nineties and, as far as I'm concerned its worse their getting. My gf has a 04 SL 350 and I tried in vain to get her to buy a BMW 645 but she had this thing in her head that Mercedes was the ultimate car to own and that was final, I still think the older generation think Mercedes are the be all and end all of cars and some of this brain washing has rubbed off on the younger generation.:)

[OT]I reckon is true for 2 of my friends. Both 17, but one's parents are about 10 years older, his dad drives a 03 E240 Avantgarde, lovely car actually, and my other friend, with the younger parents, dad's drives a 05 523i, which I reckon is nicer.

But, the one who's dad loves the Mercs loves the Mercs also, and the other can't stand them.

Looks like the age of parents did rub off on them two for their views[/OT]

Anywya, is he getting a warranty with it?

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Maybe not for you or for me, but there's an awful lot to be said for current generation Mercedes-Benz cars. Their styling has never been beaten by any other car. Simple, elegant and timeless are other words that spring to mind. It is very sad imho that the image now is less than it used to be

I wouldn't agree. The old mercs, especially the w123, w124, w201, and all variants of the "s-class" up to the mid 90's looked quite something.

The current crop of c and e classes look nothing special, the c class in particular could be made by Nissan or Toyota.

(btw, i'm not old, i'm 24, and I rememeber when Merc made quality machines.)

JHMEG

"Mr Dempsey's petrol Mercedes E240 emits an astonishing 14.3 metric tonnes of greenhouse gas into the atmosphere every year..."

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1674057&issue_id=14532

MercMad

I suppose from a styling perspective, leaving the whole quality think for a minute, the company traditionally built conservative looking cars (with a few exceptions) that hardly changed during their lifecycle !

This had the effect of retaining values, as customers could buy a car and it would remain the current model for years, then there was a high demand for the vehicle as a used car. Since the cars were of high engineering quality and didn't wear out a lot of customers never bothered buying new ones !

That was a lot of the problem, buy a new one and keep it for 10 years, but that wasn't much good for the factory. In recent years there has been a worldwide surge in demand for "the latest thing" and Mercedes had to tap into that or loose market share. Now they do the same thing as everyone else, build a car and facelift it 3 1/2- 4 years later, then introduce a new model 2 1/2 -3 years after than, with subtle changes along the way !

Look at the W123 range, it never changed from 1977-1985, at one point there was 2 year waiting list and cars that were used were changing hands for more than list price. The 107 series had a minor change in its appearance in 1985 some 13 years after it was introduced and its best selling years were the two years immediately prior to its replacement !

Those days will never return for any manufacturer, no matter whast the quality is like, because the manufacturers dont want cars to be too good, folk wont replace them !!

They will always introduce new styling features, because the costs to do just that has greatly reduced, and the boost to sales is instant !

Remember back in the late 70's early 80's Ford were the only people who used to do "facelifts" " They did it well and it worked !

As for a 645i vs an SL350, IMO they are not in the same bracket !!

Another example, in 1977 a W123 was a far superior car to a 5 series, the latter being more sporting admittedley, something a W123 could never claim to be !

Fast forward to 1987, we have the W124 and the 5 series E34, similar story the latter being a far more involved driving experience !

Now we get to 1997 and the W210 has arrived 2 years earlier, questionable styling alienate it from traditional buyers and the first whispers of dubious quality are heard, the youthful CLK is on the block, similarly styled showing that the target audience from previous W124 saloon and Coupe has changed.
The E39 5 Series has changed also, still a sporting car with far better credentials, and an executive saloon into the bargain !

I think this is where things turned around. One could never have compared the quality and reliabilty of BMW's, either 3/5 or 7's to the equivalent Benz products, things went wrong and wore out and whilst the E39 has issues it is a quality product and it never dated in the way the previous 5's did, until the new model arrived, dating pratcically EVERY car out there once you got over its looks !

Right now, approaching 2007, whether you'd choose a new 2007 5 series over a new 2007 E-Class is more down to your opinion on the looks or the deal you get than your love for either marque !

I didn't like the 5 when it arrived, I've warmed to it in the last 6 months and I believe it was possibly to ahead of itself in terms of fashion. It offered the minamalist look both inside and outside when people still wanted a bit more bang for their buck. The E-Class has more elegance and more presence but is less exclusive than its buyers would like it to be !

Sorry for the rant ! ( I'm still trying to understand most of it myself)

HungryJoey

Just to confirm, Last week my dad picked the car up, And got his old 99 E240 shifted on. I havn't been in it personally yet but he says its a touch of class and couldn't go back to the other, Beautiful machine and he is very happy with it. Itsbeen in for some things done to it before he picked it up so thats what the delay was. But he has it now. Got it for €24.5K In the end Bargain To be honest. Great spec. Heated electric seats and Xenons too that aren't mentioned on the carzone advert. And the performance is quite good from the 2.6L V6. , Slightly better from the older 2.4L V6 that was in his prevous model. But still, He still drives the Passat TDI into work everyday and The Step Mother drives this as he does more driving so the TDi is more economical, But they alternate around a bit Hope everything goes well for them in it.

This one it is :

Guy:Incognito

completely ot but whats the deal with car companies (well merc and bmw mostly) and their model numbering? Why have an e240 thats a 2.6ltr? why not call it an e260? Surely it'd be simpler from everyones pespective. I mean a 1.6 ltr 316 makes more sense to me than a 1.8.

HungryJoey

Stekelly wrote:

completely ot but whats the deal with car companies (well merc and bmw mostly) and their model numbering? Why have an e240 thats a 2.6ltr? why not call it an e260? Surely it'd be simpler from everyones pespective. I mean a 1.6 ltr 316 makes more sense to me than a 1.8.

Isn't the 316 a 1.9L engine like the 318, accept slower ?

And Yeah makes no sense the 2.6L engine but BMW and Mercedes are both at it..

Hj

galwaytt

Sorry, a bit late I know, but I just spotted this thread...

As a 30-something, and an E-Class owner, my 0.02......also, just to declare my vested interest, mine is for sale too, see http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=486916

First, the 02-06 cars are complete rubbish. Fact. Especially the 240, sorry. I know THREE people who've had huge problems - one with engine niggles, and two with electrics, brakes, steering etc...the list goes on....it was so bad that they all managed - somehow - to force the garage to take them back. One was replaced with a new 7-series, one by a 7-series secondhand, and the other by a Scooby turbo..........

Me? I looked at all before I bought, and decided that the model I have - (I dunno the W no...) is the last of the 'pre-Korean Look' MB's, and still has that quality feeling to it.

As for the whole 525 vs 240 thing, neither do, nor will, have any good residuals at all, due to tax and insurance. It is a fact that s/hand cars of this type are bought by people who don't have bottomless wallets, and who do need to know how much these things cost to run, whilst the guys who buy them new........well, they don't care if it's 2,3 or 4-litre, running-costs wise........most are co cars anyway.

Mine too, has the 'tiptronic' box you describe - left/right for up/down, and it is fantastic.

And, a MB with a manual gearbox and cloth seats is.........well unfathomable!

unkel

Best of luck with the new car, HJ

@MercMad - I agree with most of your last post. Having said that, I feel the recent beating of Mercs is more of their own doing than as a result of stronger competition from BMW

Stekelly wrote:

whats the deal with car companies (well merc and bmw mostly) and their model numbering?

Please don't start that one again. Marketing managers seem to get erections over this. BMW is more guilty than Merc

colm_mcm

BMW have seen the error of their ways and fitted the 316 with a 1.6. Just like the good ol days.....

unkel

galwaytt wrote:

the 02-06 cars are complete rubbish. Fact.

You must be joking :eek:

The W211 is vastly superior to the W210. MB quality issues started welll earlier than '02 and have nothing to do with the switch between these models

Oh and the asking price of your car is a bit on the optimistic side too to put it as diplomatically as possible

ds20prefecture

unkel wrote:

Maybe not for you or for me, but there's an awful lot to be said for current generation Mercedes-Benz cars. Their styling has never been beaten by any other car. Simple, elegant and timeless are other words that spring to mind. It is very sad imho that the image now is less than it used to be

I couldn't agree more. The current gen e-class estate is a beautiful design. A future classic, no doubt.

colm_mcm

I know 3 people with new E class, all have been plagued with problems, one car spending one out of its seven months in the dealers on 8 different occasions.

Captain Trips

I saw a new one (the face lift W211) and it looks a right load of balls with the pointy grill, far too ....american....I thought. Looks a 1980s Chrysler. Not that I've ever seen one, but that's what a 1980s Chrysler image conjures up in my head.

The sooner Daimler offload Chrysler the better, but these days most other manufacturers with the sort of finance necessary are going half into bankruptcy.

galwaytt

Unkel - if the 02 onwards cars are such great cars, why did MB drop the Servo brake system - you try getting a used warranty on one of those, or parts, in 10 yrs time............

As for price of my car - you seem to be confusing my car with cheaper models - elegance/classic.

Oh, and silver.

unkel

galwaytt wrote:

As for price of my car - you seem to be confusing my car with cheaper models - elegance/classic.

Oh, and silver.

I'm not confused and I do love the colour of your car. Avantgarde, leather and auto are great too. Lovely car by all means and I mean it!

No way you'll get anywhere near your asking price though in a private sale. A similar spec W211 newer year car could be had for less...