Nixer - Programming - Hr rate

yop

Guys,
I have been offered some work, will prob be 2 or 3 hours every nite, plus 5 every Sat and Sun, working from home, occassional trip to their office for overview/review.
This guy is a mate of mine who has setup a startup, but I think they have the potential to grow as they have the basis of a very good product and clients awaiting already.

Now what sort of hourly rate would I look to charge these guys.

I am not sure if it will be going through the books or not.
I am in a full time secure job and have no real intention, yet, of moving but I would like to give this lad a dig out but also earn some extra mulla on the side.

So what sort of rate do you think I should charge?
BTW - Programming will be .NET/ SQL Server/Crystal 11

Thanks

comer_97

you should go for around the rate you are on in your fulltime job, perhaps a small bit more.

wheres me jumpa

Depends on your experience really. Is your full time job a programming position?

Jvizzle

15 - 20 an hour in ur hand wont be unfair on either side.
More on the side of 15, as they are start up.
You could work per job / task and work on a fixed fee.
Possible you could work for a lower rate and take shares ?

TempestSabre

Make sure you track your time and progress reports as accurately as possible.

yop

Thanks guys,
Yes full time programmer developing in the same languages.
Have 9 years experience and would have twice the experience of their most senior person so in a way I may end up in a consultancy role given them my ideas, programming experiences and methodologies.

I have currently put in about 30 hours of work for them already.

I was thinking about the 20 mark as I am currently getting 18 into my hand per hour in my full time job.

One other thing about going through the books, am I better to do it all above board or could I try and get paid cash?

Jvizzle

You can try for cash , but it might be hard for the business to get the money to you, as I presume its not a cash rich business. Im sure a good accountant will have ways round thou.

yop

Thanks Jvizzle, I don't want to put them in an akward position. I would love to see these guys succeed as my mate is a nice lad and after been involved in a failed business myself, but I don't want to sell myself short either.

Thanks for the advice.
I will put 18 per hour on the table and see what happens.

Jvizzle

The way I see it is that they will struggle to get a good flexible developer to work for 18e, so its good on both sides.

leaba

I think that you're rate is far too cheap. You'd get paid better standing on a pub door. In Dublin, standard contract rates for a developer of your experience (9 years!) is probably closer to 50 euro/hour, maybe more if you're lucky.

You're a professional and probably have a college degree. I noticed you started a thread about a groin strain...go to a physio (or chiro/osteo/doc even a sports massage) and see how long you get with them for 18 euro.

the_syco

Through the books, and you could loose alot through tax, depending on how much tax you pay now.

Not through the books, and you must ensure that he'll pay up, and not just walk away when you've done the job, leaving you with some lame excuse/sob story on why they didn't pay you.

As for rate, whatever you say will be haggled. A better idea, would be to goto nixers.ie, etc and see what the "going rate" for what you'll be doing, in a full-time job would be.

yop

Leaba,
I do agree with you that what u pay for another professional that 18 euro would not get u an electrician, doctor, physio etc etc so you do have a very valid point.
I am not sure about the 50 euro to be honest. It does seem steep? But then again maybe 18 euro for 9 years exp is selling myself short.
Daily rates for VB/SQL are anythinh up to 300 euro from what I can see

Jvizzle

18 in the hand is say 25 before tax , over an 8 hour day is 200. which isnt bad for a pocket money and considering this person is your mates company and they are a start up.

Only my opinion thou.

leaba

For a good quality developer, with good experience, contract rates of 300/day is quite average. I know lots of people contracting, but for reference have a look at the CPL 2005 salery survey. http://www.cpl.ie/pdf/cpl_salaryguide.pdf

I'm not taking into account the fact that this guy is your mate. I'm also not concerned with tax issues, these should be transparent to the client. They pay you for your services, it's up to you to declare your earnings.

Probably a lot of people posting on boards are quite young and this seems like a lot of money. To get your hair washed and cut would cost about 18 euro, and would be done in far less than an hour...

Jvizzle

A hairdressers have large overheads such as rent and the fact that they dont get a client every hour. You can't compare them.
Also take salary guides from recruiters with a pinch of salt.

leaba

Okay, in Jvizzle's experience, 25 euro/hour is good money. I don't think it is. I have worked as a contractor and I have contractors working for me.

For a fully qualified S/W engineer with 9 years experience, in a full time role, in and around 60K would not be unusual. I'd want more...but maybe I'm spoiled. Divide this by 230 (working days) and you're looking at around 260/day. A contractor should expect to do better.

Also, regardless of what you charge, the customer is going to expect a certain level of quality.

yop

Leaba,
I see where you are coming from alright but the issue comes down to location also, where I am in Mayo with the experience outlined above I am pulling in 38k per year, I know that if I was in Dublin I would be hitting the 60k you mentioned, it is all relative as regards that goes.
When I was contracting I was on 250 pounds then when it went to euro I was on 235 per day, thats when contractors were as common as muck.

You don;t want a contractor by any chance leaba and pay 300 a day