Am I overdoing it??

Sagat06

Hi folks,

I'm looking to purchase a media pc, centre piece of the house and all that. I just want to know do you lot think this is a good deal or is my inexperience blinding me?

this is what I have been offered from ankermann,

Item: 1
Article Name: Microsoft Windows XP Media Centre Edition 2005 URP2 SB
EUR 95,00

Item: 2
System: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200
So.AM2 Dual Core Windsor
- So.AM2 Asus M2N SLI Deluxe SATA2 PCI-e: € 89.90
- PCI-e 256MB NVidia GeForce 7900-GT TV-out- DVI: € 219.90
- 250GB Samsung SATA-II Hard Drive
- 1024 MB DDR-II RAM 533MHz
- LG H10N Multiformat Dual Layer 16x +&- DVD-RW
- CD-RW AOpen 52x/32x/52x incl. Nero 5.5: € 28.00
- Aspire X-Cruiser Midi-Tower - Silber: € 91.10
- Arctic So.AM2 Cooler
- 400W BESTPOWER SuperSilent-Temp Controled: € 7.00
- 8 Channel Superior Quality Audio
- 10/100/1000 MBit Ethernet DSL ready

Price EUR 1.313,90

Cuddlesworth

By media pc, what exactly are going to be its use's? Just a storage pc with mame and a tv tuner. Are you going to be playing many high spec pc games?

Sagat06

Well it would be more music tv etc, I wouldnt be a big pc gamer. I was hoping to hook it up to a 26"/32" lcd tv.

mathias

Assuming this is going to be a real media center and will be sitting under your TV ?
What kind of TV are we talking about , is it a plasma/LCD ,


Quietness is going to be the number 1 concern , it will seriously pi** you off if its loud and your trying to watch TV,

With that in mind , drop one of the optical drives , you dont need both , they are far to noisy to have 2 , get rid of the cd writer , the DVD RW can write anything. You wont need to copy on the fly with a media system , and even if you do the extra few minutes wait wont kill you and the noise levels will be much better. You only need two optical drives if your planning on doing a lot of burning but that shouldnt be an issue.

Are you going to be playing PC games on the TV , if so stick with the card you have but replace the cooler with a Zalman , again this is to reduce the noise , stock coolers on these cards are incredibly loud.
If gaming is not one of the purposes of this PC then drop the 7900 and get a 7600 GS , this card is more than powerful enough for all the MCE features , has HDTV out , and best of all , no fan , they come with passive heatsinks.

You may also consider getting a fanless power supply , all parts available from komplett .
It is entirely possible to have an almost completely silent Media Centre PC , in case you were wondering , it just takes a little thought.

Hope this helps.

Sagat06

Great food for though, thanks.

I have dilusions of grandeur I think, I want to get the creative x-fi platinum also, so would I be better going for a hdmi graphics card, so I wouldnt have to waste any of the audio outs on the sound connecting to the pc or am I talking rubbish??

What do you reckon of this graphics card for a setup like this??
NX7600GT Diamond Plus (PCI-E,HDMI,D,T,P) (Upgrade from GF6200 175,- EUR)

mathias

OK , your getting a little mixed up here , its true than HDMI will carry sound also , from say a satellite box or a DVD player or whatever , but no graphics card on a PC does sound , HDMI connection or not !!

HDMI in this case will just be a cleaner connection to the TV , providing of course that the TV has two HDMI connections as you will probably want at least one HDMI for your main video source , DVD or SAT .

Soundwise the creative X fi is a little overkill for an MCE pc , this is more suitable for a home recording setup and most would not want that in the main room of the house with the TV , no a much better solution here is the Terratec aureon 7.1 card , excellent sound with optical in and out , much better for your Media Center PC .

http://sounden.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=237

About the graphics card , a 7600 GS from komplett is 113 euros ,

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=323510 ( note the passive heatsink , ideal for a media centre !! )

that link of yours seems to be saying that a 7600 GT is 175 as a upgrade from a 6200 which seems extortionately expensive to me , or maybe Im reading it wrong !!

Khannie

Way way way way way over spec'd for a HTPC. I'll take some time later to suggest a reasonable spec, or you can hop on #unreal.ie on quakenet (IRC) and we can chat there.

For comparisson though, my own HTPC which powers my lovely high def projector (god damnit I love that projector) and runs as a myth tv box (mythtv is like sky+...pause live tv, etc.) has the following spec:

P4 2.4GHz
512MB ram
160G HDD (this was big at the time)
Hauppauge PVR 350 tv card (crackin' piece of kit, but expensive)
crappy integrated graphics

It never runs low on ram, and never has any trouble playing back stuff (though if you intend viewing 1080P MPEG4 stuff, that may put more of a strain on the processor).

SouperComputer

Like the otehr have said, its way over specced. If you dont plan watching HD content and arent gaming, even a 1.8GHZ cpu is more than sufficient. However if you want to watch HD 1080P, then you are looking at around 2.8Ghz CPU minimum, moving nearer to the 3.2 mark.

So-called media PC's arent very high spec, it doesnt take much power to display the pathetic resolution that is standard TV.

My advice, buy an older rig used on adverts.ie, then spend a little money quietening it.

Sagat06

See this is why people like me should be allowed purchase off the internet! I could give it the whole future proofing spiel and all that that!!

I mean I have around €2200 to spend on this and the tv, Powercity have a 32" Philips 32PF5321/10 for €800, so I figured why not go mad on this!!

SouperComputer

so-called "futureproofing" is one of the biggest cons going. Generally by "futureproofing" you end up paying 40% more for what is somtimes only a 5% improvement that you are not likely to utilise anyway.

My 2c, get what you need now at the most econmical price possible, when you need more wallop, repeat the above. Again a used unit from adverts will give you maximum value for money. Also consider other software such as GB-PVR and Media Portal. They are both free

LCD wise, a HD unit would be a good plan. You can get great quality gear at good prices from technikdirect in germany. Also, check the home entertainment (under tech\consumer electronics) for a sticky on other great sources to buy the best gear at low prices

Lasty, when it comes to the final config and setup, have a chat with us on the HTPC\Media Centre Forum.

Khannie

SouperComputer wrote:

LCD wise, a HD unit would be a good plan.

Definitely. Though I lol'd at your "don't future proof" followed by "future proof".

One of my mates got a very good deal on a High Def ready LCD in DID recently.

Personally, if I had 2200 to spend on TV + PC, I'd go with a 1400 euro high def LCD projector like this one (I have a slightly older version of this) (or LCD / plasma if a projector isn't an option) and an 800 euro quiet as a mouse HTPC.

Moving this to the HTPC forum.

mathias

My HTPC is used mainly for music , 3000 plus albums all ripped with lame and variable bitrate @ 100% for best quality , all album cover art is in there also ,
As well as this I have my favourite music DVD's playable from a hard disk like a jukebox , there are about 40 of these ,
I wont accept low quality just to be able to do this so the picture quality has to be the same as my Pioneer 656A player or better !!
My TV is a Panasonic 32 inch LCD HD ready

My original spec was ,
Athlon 2400 , 512 MB ram , KD7 raid board from MSI , onboard sound , FX5200 graphics and Meedio .

Heres the thing , the Athlon 2400 struggled badly with the Video ( could handle SD but upscaling was beyond it )
The graphics card was struggling badly too , lots of screen tear , dreadful.
With 3000 albums Meedio could not handler the refresh rate scrolling through all the albums with cover art in album view. ( not enough memory ! )
DVD jukebox in Meedio .... No chance , I was told it could be done , but never got it working.

So now Im running the following , Athlon 64 3200 , 7600 GS ( chosen because it had no fan and also cos it has native HD support ... connects using a DVI to HDMI convertor cable)

Im running MCE ... I would rather not use microsoft , especially having had meedio , but meedio is gone now ...it is no longer available.
I tried Media Portal , this is still Beta software and is just not up to the job yet , I have it on the office PC , if and when it gets as good as MCE I will switch.
Myth TV , again I have this on a Linux box , but not nearly friendly enough for the sitting room yet !!

So for a " Just works " solution , the only really viable solution at the moment is MCE ... chokes saying it ... but tis true

1GB ram , anything less and the album view is so slow as to be unusable.
A Fanless power supply , the only fan in the system is the CPU fan and thats a Zalman 120mm.

All this works , and in my opinion is about as basic a system for HTPC as you can get. I dont think your choice is all overkill , not by a long shot , the only thing maybe you overdid it on is the graphics ,

Now if what you require from the system is just SD recording from a TV then you can reduce the spec a lot , but if its anything like my usage you are on the right track.

mossym

mathias wrote:

My HTPC is used mainly for music , 3000 plus albums all ripped with lame and variable bitrate @ 100% for best quality , all album cover art is in there also ,
As well as this I have my favourite music DVD's playable from a hard disk like a jukebox , there are about 40 of these ,
I wont accept low quality just to be able to do this so the picture quality has to be the same as my Pioneer 656A player or better !!
My TV is a Panasonic 32 inch LCD HD ready

My original spec was ,
Athlon 2400 , 512 MB ram , KD7 raid board from MSI , onboard sound , FX5200 graphics and Meedio .

Heres the thing , the Athlon 2400 struggled badly with the Video ( could handle SD but upscaling was beyond it )
The graphics card was struggling badly too , lots of screen tear , dreadful.
With 3000 albums Meedio could not handler the refresh rate scrolling through all the albums with cover art in album view. ( not enough memory ! )
DVD jukebox in Meedio .... No chance , I was told it could be done , but never got it working.

So now Im running the following , Athlon 64 3200 , 7600 GS ( chosen because it had no fan and also cos it has native HD support ... connects using a DVI to HDMI convertor cable)

Im running MCE ... I would rather not use microsoft , especially having had meedio , but meedio is gone now ...it is no longer available.
I tried Media Portal , this is still Beta software and is just not up to the job yet , I have it on the office PC , if and when it gets as good as MCE I will switch.
Myth TV , again I have this on a Linux box , but not nearly friendly enough for the sitting room yet !!

So for a " Just works " solution , the only really viable solution at the moment is MCE ... chokes saying it ... but tis true

1GB ram , anything less and the album view is so slow as to be unusable.
A Fanless power supply , the only fan in the system is the CPU fan and thats a Zalman 120mm.

All this works , and in my opinion is about as basic a system for HTPC as you can get. I dont think your choice is all overkill , not by a long shot , the only thing maybe you overdid it on is the graphics ,

Now if what you require from the system is just SD recording from a TV then you can reduce the spec a lot , but if its anything like my usage you are on the right track.

i had 1080i out running on a 1ghz pc with a 6200 in it..it's the graphics card that dictates your video output. If you had dropped a better card into that last pc you had it would have worked fine. you don't need a cpu like he is talking about to upscale

SouperComputer

khannie wrote:

Definitely. Though I lol'd at your "don't future proof" followed by "future proof".

I was waiting for someone to say that. But bear in mind you will keep a TV a lot longer than a PC on average, especially a media PC. I guess you could also say that HDTV is "currentproofing" I guess.

Mathis, im not sure what your problem was with video upscaling, but it was not a CPU or GPU bottleneck. I had a P4 2.0 with a passive-cooled FX5200, 512MB RAM running 720p and 1080i res's with no issues.

The res itself is not that demanding, its the cpu power thats is required to decompress the video if you plan watching HD videos.

I agree with Khannie on the proector front (that panasonic is a fantastic unit) but if you just want to watch the news or whatever, a projector can be a bit inconvienient.

What I am doing over here is buying an old 21" CRT monitor wth a trinitron tube and a HD projector (either panny AE700 or AE900, depending on how ebay snipes go). That way I have a cheap if somewhat bulky HD-Supporting TV for about 80e or less ($75 here actually). I can use the monitor for the news etc, and bang on the projector for 120" widescreen goodness. Although on a 21" screen HD is not a major benefit, you will still get great clarity and also save the hassle of messing with graphics card settings for your two outputs. All for WELL under 2K too

Im sure someone will point (rightly) out the cost of lamps for projectors, for an overview, have a look here:

http://projectorcentral.com/replacement_lamps.htm

mossym

SouperComputer wrote:

I was waiting for someone to say that. But bear in mind you will keep a TV a lot longer than a PC on average, especially a media PC.

Mathis, im not sure what your problem was with video upscaling, but it was not a CPU or GPU bottleneck. I had a P4 2.0 with a passive-cooled FX5200, 512MB RAM running 720p and 1080i res's with no issues.

The res itself is not that demanding, its the cpu power thats is required to decompress the video if you plan watching HD videos.

I agree with Khannie on the proector front (that panasonic is a fantastic unit) but if you just want to watch the news or whatever, a projector can be a bit inconvienient.

What I am doing over here is buying an old 21" CRT monitor wth a trinitron tube and a HD projector (either panny AE700 or AE900, depending on how ebay snipes go). That way I have a cheap if somewhat bulky HD-Supporting TV for about 80e or less ($75 here actually). I can use the monitor for the news etc, and bang on the projector for 120" widescreen goodness.

All for WELL under 2K

how does an old 21" sony trinitron give you hd support?

mossym

SouperComputer wrote:

My 2c, get what you need now at the most econmical price possible, when you need more wallop, repeat the above. Again a used unit from adverts will give you maximum value for money. Also consider other software such as GB-PVR and Media Portal. They are both free

also, if you go for a low spec pc, avoid mediaportal. it is actually what i use..but it is incredibly resource hungry..gbpvr will run on about anything..

SouperComputer

mossym wrote:

also, if you go for a low spec pc, avoid mediaportal. it is actually what i use..but it is incredibly resource hungry..gbpvr will run on about anything..

This is true, MP is a heavy app. Which is why I never used it fulltime, even on higher spec systems. GB-PVR is great, lightweight and networkable.

mossym wrote:

how does an old 21" sony trinitron give you hd support?

Monitors have had support HD-res's for years (since the late 90's and earlier), this is the monitor I picked up localy for 75USD, max res supported 1920x1440. So it will display 1080P! Wouldnt be to hard to get one in Dublin for around the same figure.

It's going to stretch the image a bit, but im williing to put up with that for such small money, besides, im pretty sure there is a workaround, even if it means tweaking the screen settings.

wikipeida wrote:

Computer monitors

Cathode ray tube (CRT) computer monitors have long been capable of displaying (and exceeding) 1080p, albeit as a non-standard resolution since most CRT monitors have an aspect ratio of 4:3 (and those that aren't are 16:10, not 16:9). Most 17-inch computer monitors which support 1280 × 1024 at 60 Hz will accept an input signal at 1920 × 1080 at 60 Hz, although the projected resolution will exceed the physical limitations of the display screen itself, which for CRT devices is commonly documented as phosphor dot pitch. Some modern widescreen liquid crystal display (LCD) monitors can also natively display 1080p content. Widescreen WUXGA monitors for example support 1920x1200 resolution, which can display a pixel for pixel reproduction of the 1080p (1920x1080) format. These resolutions are supported by several laptops with 15.4 and 17 inch displays.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

mossym

SouperComputer wrote:

This is true, MP is a heavy app. Which is why I never used it fulltime, even on higher spec systems. GB-PVR is great, lightweight and networkable.



Monitors have had support HD-res's for years (since the late 90's and earlier), this is the monitor I picked up localy for 75USD, max res supported 1920x1440. So it will display 1080P! Wouldnt be to hard to get one in Dublin for around the same figure.

It's going to stretch the image a bit, but im williing to put up with that for such small money, besides, im pretty sure there is a workaround, even if it means tweaking the screen settings.

sorryr, i forgot you were referring to a monitor...i was wondering how you were getting 1) 1 21" tv that supported hd..and 2) only paying $70 for it..

must be time to go home..

SouperComputer

mossym wrote:

sorryr, i forgot you were referring to a monitor...i was wondering how you were getting 1) 1 21" tv that supported hd..and 2) only paying $70 for it..

must be time to go home..

He he, check this out:

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Sony_GDMFW900_24_CRT_Monitor/GDMFW900/ps/105660

Nice, might get one if I can bag one cheap enough!

mossym

SouperComputer wrote:

He he, check this out:

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Sony_GDMFW900_24_CRT_Monitor/GDMFW900/ps/105660

Nice, might get one if I can bag one cheap enough!

nice, but you better get it cheaper than that..for that price you could have a 50inch rptv that can do 1080i...

i brought my mitsubishi 48" tv back from the states when i moved back, lived in california for 6 years. Have it running with sky through my htpc..everything is at 1080i...:) even if it is upconverted...

and why is my last post edited by you? you didn't even fix the spelling...:)