New roads & driving standards

Andrew Duffy

I had a weekend away this weekend, which involved taking in the new N2 Ashbourne bypass (there was a serious collision completely blocking the Dublin-bound slip South of Ashbourne - I hope it was noone on here's relative); the upgraded Naas Road, Cashel, Fermoy and Watergrasshill bypasses on the N7; and the upgraded South Ring in Cork.

First, the standard of driving on the three-lane section of the N7 is appalling. The driving lane is virtually empty of traffic at all times, and erratic weaving makes it extremely intimidating to pass middle-lane morons in the rightmost lane. It's a very unpleasant experience. However, the standard on the three-lane section of the N2 was good (probably due to the complete lack of traffic), as it was on the three-lane sections of the Cork South Ring (which seems to have changed from N28 to N25 according to my OS map?).

Second, the new motorways or near-motorways are built to a worryingly low standard. The Cashel and Fermoy bypasses are indistinguishable from each other and have a concrete barrier uncomfortably close to the overtaking lane, which has the welcome side-effect of encouraging people to stay left. The lanes are narrow, the hardshoulders very narrow and the gradients and curvatures leave a lot to be desired. The contrast between the Fermoy bypass with its motorway speed limit and the much better Watergrasshill bypass without a motorway speed limit is marked.

Third, the Cork South Ring is a serious road. How did it ever get built? The section on a viaduct above (I think) Douglas looks straight out of Birmingham.

Finally, didn't Martin Cullen turn sod on the Cullahill-Cashel section of N7 a few weeks ago? How, therefore, are there at least four bridges over the current N7 in an advanced state of construction? Ok, I know the answer to that, but why does the new road cross the old so often?

Victor

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Third, the Cork South Ring is a serious road. How did it ever get built? The section on a viaduct above (I think) Douglas looks straight out of Birmingham.

They started it in the 1980s and are still building.

The section at Douglas has a bridge of (North) Douglas Road and South Douglas Road. The section in between uses reinforced earth construction.

http://www.clarksonconstruction.com/content/images/bridge_retainingwall.jpg

corktina

the south ring changes number at the b'collig junc as the Macroom to Cork road leaves there and continues into the city on the old route....the south ring therefore terminates at that junction...the change in number is a little startling I must admit....

joe_elway

The run from the Mad Cow to Kildare town on the N7 is a farce.

On the way out....

From Newlands Cross to Naas, only 2 of the 3 lanes are ever used. I love to slip into the left lane and cruise along there at the speed limit. It's like my own personal lane (had a letter published to that effect on the Inderpendant the week after the road opened up).

Then you get to the M7. You've been doing the speed limit (or thereabouts :eek: ) from Newlands Cross out. You now see an increase in the speed limit. You move over to the right lane to overtake but end up sitting with your hand brake on for periods of time. The causes? Some farmer is in the right lane drooling over sheep, a tractor and trailer is in the left lane cruising at 20MPH, someone has parked their black Ford Focus half way on the center median leaving 2 wheels out on the right lane, or some M50 &*I#&^% driver has gone beyond the big smoke and thinks we all drive at 40MPH in the right hand lane.

You now get past the juntion with the M9 (Carlow, Wexford, Waterford). For a few miles, sanity and common sensse take over. People are driving safely, quickly and in the right lane. Things are good. The heart palpitations have stopped.

Now we get to south Newbridge exit. :mad:

I think a special kind of people learn to drive down here. Most of them drive Mercs, "not your run of the mill" SUV's and huge MPV's (soccor mom on the run with half the neighbourhood). They appear to travel in convoys, taking up two lanes. SUV's travel at about 100MPH. The Mercs are doing around 40MPH in the left lane (I can tolerate this). Then there is Soccor Mom. Shes cruising at 55 in the right lane oblivious to the fact she is dangerous and that other people may want to get somewhere afer spending 2 hours in traffic.

Now you may think I'm ranting about occasional disruptions. Uh uh. These happen on every run down the M7 in the evening.

It's when I'm behind the wheel on occasions like this that I understand why Florida has a law banning you from having your gun and your ammunition in the same accesible place in your car.

BrianD3

I agree about the 3 lane section on the N7. Ridiculous. Last time I was on it the majority of the cars were hogging the middle lane with the driving lane empty for hundreds of metres ahead. There were even a few trucks hogging the middle lane.

Re: road design, the N4 McNeads bridge dual carriageway seems to be get very waterlogged in heavy rain. I had to slow right down on it for fear of aquaplaning. The older section of dual carriageway to the west of it seems to drain better.

I also think there is something strange about the sightlines on the McNeads bridge section at the railway bridge. If you are in the overtaking lane heading eastward the concrete barrier and hill seem to encroach a lot on your vision

bryanw

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Second, the new motorways or near-motorways are built to a worryingly low standard. The Cashel and Fermoy bypasses are indistinguishable from each other and have a concrete barrier uncomfortably close to the overtaking lane, which has the welcome side-effect of encouraging people to stay left. The lanes are narrow, the hardshoulders very narrow and the gradients and curvatures leave a lot to be desired. The contrast between the Fermoy bypass with its motorway speed limit and the much better Watergrasshill bypass without a motorway speed limit is marked.

They do seem to be reducing the standards on new roads... but do notice that newish sections near Dublin still have huge medians... maybe they aren't expecting to need to increase capacity on roads like Fermoy and Cashel by-passed.

I wouldn't be too worried about the standards of the roads. Even the roads with the NJ concrete barrier would be of higher standard than other motorways thoughout Europe. Many motorways in other countries just use a barrier also - and have a higher speed limit.

The standards of driving on the new Nass Road really are appaling - I wonder if anyone is enforcing the rules of the road there.

D'Peoples Voice

Andrew Duffy wrote:

First, the standard of driving on the three-lane section of the N7 is appalling. The driving lane is virtually empty of traffic at all times, and erratic weaving makes it extremely intimidating to pass middle-lane morons in the rightmost lane. It's a very unpleasant experience.

Local government HAVE the power to set different speed limits in the various lanes of the same road. Why don't they do it!
What should happen is that they have an overhead gantry, and they just state what is the MIN and MAX speed in each lane. Anyone driving outside those limits should be penalised.
However I must say Irish people don't follow signposts so it may be a waste of time.
Take the Red Cow Roundabout. If you are coming form the Naas direction on the N7, wish to head southbound on the M50 towards Shankill, then the MASSIVE signpost before the roundabout says to get in the rightmost lane. The same MASSIVE signpost says that the middle lane and the leftmost lane are for city direction. At the top of this MASSIVE signpost, it also says get into lane.
Of course what happens is that people in the middle lane decide that they will take the 3rd exit for M50 southbound. This means that those who were in the rightmost lane cannot get over to the leftmost lane after the exit for the city. The amount of close calls I've had on this roundabout trying to get over to the leftmost lane. You just have to bully your way across, and hope they hit you and then you can call a guard and then smile and think of how big their insurance premium wil be next year!:)

Capt'n Midnight

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

The amount of close calls I've had on this roundabout trying to get over to the leftmost lane. You just have to bully your way across, and hope they hit you and then you can call a guard and then smile and think of how big their insurance premium wil be next year!:)

unfortunatley your premium goes up too.

loyatemu

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Local government HAVE the power to set different speed limits in the various lanes of the same road....

i don't think they do - they can set different speed limits for different carriageways of the same road. Possibly they can set different limits for different directions on the same single-carriageway road, but I don't think you can have different limits in the same direction.

BrianD3

Even if it could be done, there's no point/need to have different speed limits in different lanes on the N7. What is needed is for the Gardai to ticket anyone driving in either of the overtaking lanes with an empty lane (or lanes) to their left.

dmeehan

Andrew Duffy wrote:

as it was on the three-lane sections of the Cork South Ring (which seems to have changed from N28 to N25 according to my OS map?).

The N28 goes from the South Ring Road (N25) to Ringaskiddy. The south ring road was never numbered N28.

The N22 is the Kerry to Cork road. It branches off in Curraheen to follow the old N22 Route to Cork city center. The dual carriageway continues on as the N25 (South Ring road)

Victor

I suspect that before the tunnel opened that the Kinsale Road - Douglas section may have been N28.

Andrew Duffy

Wikipedia agrees with Victor and the current OS map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N28_road

ardmacha

They should define an offence, that it is an offence to drive in a lane other than the left one unless there is a vehicle within 50m (or whatever is appropriate) in the inner lane. Then camera type devices could be used to monitor this. Having created this offence they should advertise it substantially on TV etc.

A campaign of this sort on the N7 and the publicity given in the Evening Herald to the points given out would help things greatly.

Ham'nd'egger

ardmacha wrote:

They should define an offence, that it is an offence to drive in a lane other than the left one unless there is a vehicle within 50m (or whatever is appropriate) in the inner lane. Then camera type devices could be used to monitor this. Having created this offence they should advertise it substantially on TV etc.

A campaign of this sort on the N7 and the publicity given in the Evening Herald to the points given out would help things greatly.

On a dual carriageway/motorway, the lane nearest the Median/outside lane is the overtaking lane, and it is an offence to drive in this lane unless one is overtaking. On a 3 lane section, the outside lane is still designated for overtaking. In the case of the N 7, it still holds the same general road restrictions as a single lane stretch of an N road eg tractors, cyclists, sit on mowers etc can use it. Silly, maybe but it's the law.

With respect to your 50M idea, it is hard to judge 50m unless they mark chevrons on roads to mark it, and 50M won't be adequate for braking at high speeds, but the idea is a good one.

ardmacha

The problem with the concept of overtaking in general is that on a busy road, where there are cars about N7 M50 etc you start by overtaking and say you are going to overtake the guy 500m ahead and you can stay there all day. The law likes things more black and white. I haven't calculated the appropriate distance re braking, but say you had something like 100m markers along the verge, defining 100m boxes, if the box behind you is vacant then time to pull in.

Victor

I don't think legislation is the problem, there is a general duty to keep left. The problem is as usual, ignorance and lack of enforcement.

mackerski

ardmacha wrote:

They should define an offence, that it is an offence to drive in a lane other than the left one [....]

Section 9 of this SI does this.

Part 4 of this Act refers to this offence and defines penalty points to be issued to offenders.

Dermot

mobpd

I've been emailing direct to both the NRA and the Road Safety Authority on excatly the issue raised here - about the very poor lane discipline on the N7. I told the NRA that I didnt think the overhead gantry signs helped where logically it would tell you to get into the middle or outer lanes if continuing southwards and not turning off at say Castlewarden, Kill or johnstown. The NRA just emailed me to say that 'due to motorist feedback; the signs will be changed next year - did anyone else here contact them? They dont tell me when exactly they will change or how?

With the RSA I suggested that at least some temporary signs be put up to say keep left unless overtaking. The guy who replied first implied it was OK to undertake on the left (doh!!) and now says it is a education issue (well, of course we know that!) and that 'hopefully' the new driving test will improve things. But as anyone knows who drives the N7 it is not just the learners who sit in the middle and outer lanes, i'd say about 75% of all drivers do.
I see the RSA have a public consultation exercise underway - probably to get everyone to tell them the blinding obvious!!
What can we do?

steinbock

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Of course what happens is that people in the middle lane decide that they will take the 3rd exit for M50 southbound. This means that those who were in the rightmost lane cannot get over to the leftmost lane after the exit for the city. The amount of close calls I've had on this roundabout trying to get over to the leftmost lane. You just have to bully your way across, and hope they hit you and then you can call a guard and then smile and think of how big their insurance premium wil be next year!:)

every time i turn right at the mad cow this happens. and sometimes these drivers don't even move over to the leftmost lane once they've passed the second exit either, hence blocking off the cars who are actullay in the correct lane.