Transformer Gender Discussion

Rozie

Galvasean wrote:

They don't plan to use mass shifting, combiners or fembots or anything else thast requires further explaination. The way the film makers see it is that the general audience will have enough trouble trying to grasp the concept of giant transforming robots without having to explain why one is a woman.

Hold on - wouldn't the fact that they're all blatantly male(unless they intend in removing their personalities, though movie Prime is still shaped like a burly dude) require a lot more explanation?

Most people are aware that there's more to gender in an intelligent species than reproduction. Why would an intelligent species(or Primus) create a simulation of life and leave out gender? Doesn't make sense, if you're going for any degree of accuracy - far too many behavioural patterns are tied up in gender. A truly adrogynous species would have the instincts of both genders - which clearly, they don't.

I think these "Why are there fembots!?" type statements are pretty offensive towards transgenders and gay people too.

constitutionus

Rozie wrote:

Hold on - wouldn't the fact that they're all blatantly male(unless they intend in removing their personalities, though movie Prime is still shaped like a burly dude) require a lot more explanation?

Most people are aware that there's more to gender in an intelligent species than reproduction. Why would an intelligent species(or Primus) create a simulation of life and leave out gender? Doesn't make sense, if you're going for any degree of accuracy - far too many behavioural patterns are tied up in gender. A truly adrogynous species would have the instincts of both genders - which clearly, they don't.

I think these "Why are there fembots!?" type statements are pretty offensive towards transgenders and gay people too.

show me optimus primes wang and I'll agree with you.

they may be perceived as male but theyre asexual beings. thats one of the things i like about transformers, theyre a totally alien concept in terms of an alien life form. just cause theyre big doesnt mean theyre male, the female spider is vastly bigger and more aggressive than the male for instance and in practically all the dinosaur species the female was bigger. so it not a huge leap to think that an asexual species would be powerfully built.

at the end of the day fembots is just a dumb response to the feminist lobby. were talking about a silicon based life form that doesnt have sex so female transfromers with tits is ridiculous

Rozie

Just because they don't have sex doesn't mean they don't have gender.

Transformers have no literal need for faces for instance, or noses - yet they have them anyway. Why should fembots be any different?

They're meant to be modelled after biological life so it's only logical that they'd make a good attempt at emulating all general aspects of it.

Most of the Transformers acted in ways that were blatantly male. Would Optimus Prime's character have worked as a girl? No. Jazz? Grimlock? Certainly not. Bumblebee and Starscream maybe(mostly because Starscream sounds like a stereotypical witch from some kids' movie), but that's about it.

Taking that away from them would mean alterring their personalities unnecessarily.

Plus, without fembots, we'd never have had Blackarachnia either. I hope you're not dissing Blackarachnia. Much of Beast Wars storyline wouldn't have worked if it wasn't for "fembots"...

monkeyfudge

I split this from the movie thread as I felt a discussion about Transformer genders deserved it's own thread.

BlitzKrieg

show me optimus primes wang and I'll agree with you.

Can't find Optimus Prime's wang, but will Megatron do?

Galvasean

I have nothing against Fembots (this is not an offensive remark, if it is Futurama and Austin Powers should be banned, not that fictional robots will get offended anyway). Infact Arcee was a really cool character in G1 (pity she never got a figure). I'm just saying people would ask the question, "Why is Arcee a girl?" if they saw her in the upcoming movie. (Funny, they wouldn't ask why Prime is a guy)

de5p0i1er

In season 2 episode 37(The Search For Alpha Trion) where there were a group of female Autobots.

6th

She did look good when she did make it to toy:

monkeyfudge

That gun is a bit large isn't it? Is she over compensating for a lack of something, perhaps?

sprinkles

Rozie wrote:

Hold on - wouldn't the fact that they're all blatantly male(unless they intend in removing their personalities, though movie Prime is still shaped like a burly dude) require a lot more explanation?

Most people are aware that there's more to gender in an intelligent species than reproduction. Why would an intelligent species(or Primus) create a simulation of life and leave out gender? Doesn't make sense, if you're going for any degree of accuracy - far too many behavioural patterns are tied up in gender. A truly adrogynous species would have the instincts of both genders - which clearly, they don't.

I think these "Why are there fembots!?" type statements are pretty offensive towards transgenders and gay people too.

Not all species have female and male genders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction

as for mechanical robots I found it very strange that they needed genders. Shurely they are built not born.....

While on this topic I found it very weird that in some of the english comics that the autobots would sport stubble on thier face to indicate that they were battle weary etc.... wtf?!

jaggeh

sprinkles wrote:

While on this topic I found it very weird that in some of the english comics that the autobots would sport stubble on thier face to indicate that they were battle weary etc.... wtf?!

Metal Fatigue/rust

Agamemnon

They must be males if there was attraction between them and human females. Wasn't there an episode of the cartoon series called "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide"? And in the comics, Sludge was in love with a reporter babe called Joy Meadows (sounds like a retirement home).

Very kinky. Anyone know of any fanfic involving Transformer lovin'?

monkeyfudge

agamemnon wrote:

Very kinky. Anyone know of any fanfic involving Transformer lovin'?

Oh it's out there... I read one about Optimus Prime anally punishing Ironhide.

And the latest episode of Drawn Together featured Transformer porn.. although it was only on in the background and you didn't get to see anything.

Belle Ende

The genderisation of Transformers is a boneheaded idea. Femmebots, indeed. Cuh. A dull and near meritless idea.

Galvasean

Well they are robots. Why not build ones with feminine features if they can be advantageous? Female limb proportions allow for greater agility.

Ger_Hankey

Heres why I think there aren't fembots in the movie:
(conversation which may have happened in Paramount offices)
Producers:
"Well, heres our concept designs for Arcee.."
Michael Bay:
"Who's Arcee?"
Producers:
"Shes the Female Character Robot"
Micheal Bay
"Woah, hang on there a sec, wasn't there a girl robot in the original movie?"
Producers:
"Well, yes but.."
Micheal Bay:
"What did I say?
Producers:
"That you want to make your own movie, different from anything thats gone before"
Micheal Bay:
"Thats right. So no girl robots. We're making an actoin movie for christs sake, why would we want girls in it?"
Producers:
"Wouldn't we be seen as being sexist?"
Micheal Bay:
"Nah, just feed em' some crap about having enough to deal with looking at giant transforming robots"
Producers:
"Then we would be calling our audience stupid, wouldn't we?"
Micheal Bay:
"So? Now, explain to me again, why do I have to have this Optimus Prime dude in it?"


Evens money Arcee makes it to the sequel

Tar.Aldarion

IM SO OFF ENDED AT DIS!!!!onetyone1111

Rozie

Belle Ende wrote:

The genderisation of Transformers is a boneheaded idea. Femmebots, indeed. Cuh. A dull and near meritless idea.

Why? They were nearly all "genderised" male to begin with... TFs were always meant to be considerably more human-like than all the other aliens in the movie.

Belle Ende

Rozie wrote:

Why?

Because it's lamebrained and silly. Some desperate need to map most every equivalence (esp. sexual biology) from humans onto the Transformers. Accents and pronouns don't equate to biological categories. Introducing 'female' robots to G1 Transformers probably comes from a fanwank desire to 'be' a fembot/to 'hump' the fembots.
.
.


"What exactly is a female?"
"As far as I know, Hot Rod, it's some strange gender distinction the humans have." ---UK #234

Bingo.

Ger_Hankey

I'd imagine that this could be determined by which type of origin story they choose to follow. If they go along the sort of lines that the TFs being created by an alien race (e.g. the Quintessons) as a comsumer product, and they wanted them to be more appealing to their customers, then there would be no reason for there not to be female-like TFs.

In the real world I think its like this: Hasbro wanted to see if they could get some girls interested in buying Transformers, so they put a girl TF in the movie. She wasn't well received, because for the most part, (and ladies, please don't take offense here), girls don't buy Transformers.
So, twenty years later, Paramount decide to make a movie and are running their ideas past Hasbro (with Arcee in the preliminary story at this stage) and Hasbro say theres no point having her in it cause girls don't buy TFs.
I seroiusly doubt a couple of strange fanboys sexual fantasies influenced them one way or the other.

Rozie

Because it's lamebrained and silly. Some desperate need to map most every equivalence (esp. sexual biology) from humans onto the Transformers.

But it's their human features that make them appeal to us, over, say
the likes of the Quintessons or all the creepy people in "Webworld".

You're trying far, far too hard to be "anti-PC" and are ignoring the fact that most of the TFs have blatnatly male voices and personalities(unless you're one of those 70s throwback people that "doesn't believe" in gender psychology/brainsex).

Introducing 'female' robots to G1 Transformers probably comes from a fanwank desire to 'be' a fembot/to 'hump' the fembots.
.

No it doesn't. It came to try to add diversity to characters. Fembots
were in Transformers from pretty early on.


Without fembots, we'd never have gotten Blackarachnia. Explain to me, exactly, how Blackarachnia would have worked as a male? It makes no sense.

Fembots just plain look cool. It doesn't matter if they're pathetic lesbian fantasies, or weird fanboy **** material. That's not really your place to judge.

"What exactly is a female?"
"As far as I know, Hot Rod, it's some strange gender distinction the humans have." ---UK #234

Bingo.

I hated that. I love Simon Furman's writing but that was just plain
stupid. Luckily, he's gone back on that nonsense as Arcee appeared in
DW War and Peace on Cybertron where she wouldn't really be that way
just because of earth feminists, which would make little sense.

Keep in mind this was back in the 80s too, feminism was never really "solidified" until around the start of the 90s. So it's not surprising you'd get blows like this at it.

Silverfish

Of course Transformers are all male, as they are big and powerful, as men are. Also, this is why they turn into trucks and planes and cars, not dishwashers and cookers.

Nevyn

Actually feminism was silidified in the 1920s when most of the women in the western world got da Vote.

I never found the transforumers to be a gender issue ffs they are robots
if the had made "female" transformer and made them **** or made them constantly the bad guys oppps I mean girles then there could be an issue.

They are robots, they have no gender or gender id or sexual gender preference unless we assign it to them.

It's all in your mind.

the_syco

Yep, the internet sure sprouts out some weird results:rolleyes:

Karoma

Most people are aware that there's more to gender in an intelligent species than reproduction.

There's fighting style as well - do Transformers pull each other's hair and grow long nails to scrape each other with? (Let's not discuss those silly animal Transformer yokes...)

Why would an intelligent species(or Primus) create a simulation of life and leave out gender?

Probably because most intelligent species are not so wrapped up in such stereotypical nonsense and trivialities.


Cheerio.

koneko

Silverfish wrote:

Of course Transformers are all male, as they are big and powerful, as men are. Also, this is why they turn into trucks and planes and cars, not dishwashers and cookers.

hi5!

Rozie

There's fighting style as well - do Transformers pull each other's hair and grow long nails to scrape each other with? (Let's not discuss those silly animal Transformer yokes...)

Interesting how the people who have a problem with fembots on "Intelligent" grounds are usually chauvenistic assholes.

Probably because most intelligent species are not so wrapped up in such stereotypical nonsense and trivialities.


Cheerio.

Gender isn't just a social construct, it's also defined in the brain. I can't take your "argument" seriously if you continue to ignore this. This really isn't a disputable fact.

Nevyn

So you are arguing about the gender of fictional robots and how important it is ?

Rozie

Thaedydal wrote:

So you are arguing about the gender of fictional robots and how important it is ?

That sounds like an appeal to ridicule to me.