Dublin's not as bad as you think!

Civilian_Target

As I'm sure many of you know, I'm a regular urban cyclist, and two weeks ago I moved to London. I've had a number of regular commutes in Dublin for almost two years, including Stillorgan->Santry, Drumcondra->Santry, Ranelagh->Clonee and most recently a more leisurely Blanchardstown->Clonee, but I'm quite familiar with cycling on most of the Northside and South East/South Central Dublin.

I've also done some cycling in Belfast and found it to be pretty much on par with Dublin as a place to cycle, with the wider lanes on the street generally making up for the lack of cycle facities. I've also done a little urban cycling on the continent.

However, I've found London to be a completely different league over the last two weeks. Having heard so much about London cyclists campaigns and hearing about the London cycle network, I have to say, the onstreet cycling here is without exception the worst I have ever experienced. And worse still, it's nothing to do with incompetent drivers, there are some cases of plain rudeness/deliberate ignorance on the part of motorists but the government.

"Advistory" cycle lanes are everywhere but often inaccessible. Even on-road lanes are often so narrow that there's simply no room for cyclists on the road - cars are packed so tight that you can't slide between them so you just have to sit in traffic like everyone else. Often no cyclist's alternative exists to large, signal-controlled roundabouts, which means cyclists are plunged into 4 or 5 lane roundabouts full of angry motorists! And worst of all, sometimes roads just narrow, with a sign that says "Cyclists dismount now" and nowhere to go!

Even where real cycle lanes do exists, they're often of far worse quality than Dublin ones! They're lacking in that high-grip red surfacing stuff used in Dublin, in London they just use normal tarmac, often badly broken or in the drain. They're often punctuated with low signposts, high kerbs at unlikely angles, and faded on-lane yield signs to let cars into sidestreets. Finally, these continuous cycle lanes cut straight through were busses are supposed to stop!

Busses are another issue of contention. Dublin Bus drivers are actually (usually) pretty good - they tend to be aware that their lanes are shared with cyclists, they usually look in their mirrors before they pull out and often tend to be quite well trained at what they do. Not so with London bus drivers, who work for private companies and appear to get their licenses by collecting stamps from cereal boxes! They don't look where they're going, they often pull in towards the kerb even when there's cyclists on a lane inside them. They pull out with only the briefest indication, often without looking, and tend to become somehow impassable at traffic lights!

Once facility they do have in London though that Dublin tends to lack, is parking for bicycles. Aside from onstreet bars, which themselves are far more frequent than in Dublin, there's also some specified bicycle parks. Much like a car park, you get a ticket, you enter an area which usually exists between the ground and first floor of a carpark with a dual ramp-step entrance to get your bike in easily. They're not usually free but they're supervised so it's safer.

Anyway, for the most part, I know cycling in Dublin can be a bit shyt but be thankful you don't have to cycle in London!

(Also, on a side note, my new commute is South Ealing -> South Kensington. Takes 25-50 mins depending on traffic, weather and routing, and is 11.2km. In Dublin I could cover Ranelagh -> Clonee (20km) in 50-70 mins, mostly depending on weather)

Alkers

When I was in london jsut for a weekend I couldn't help notice that most of the people I saw on bikes all had very nice bikes. Was a pleasant change from all the bangers you see around in town over here. There was even gangs of guys on street/jump bikes.

wahlrab

try cycling in budapest, pretty much no cycling lanes, and the road surface throughout most of the city centre is dire, i also have to deal with being on the other side of the road and much more trams although the bus drivers are good but the taxi are lethal!

Amazing city though and there is a big cycling community and they have big turnouts for critcal mass and you see alot more people cycling than you do in dublin

Mucco

I actually prefer London to Dublin for cycling.
London has many more bus lanes which bikes can use, and there is a push to get people out of their cars and onto public transport or bikes. The congestion charge and pro-cycling publicity has made a big difference to cyclist numbers, especially in the last two years. In the parts of London I frequent (W, SW, NW), the road surfaces are infinitely better than Dublin.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'advisory' and 'real' cycle lanes, as there are no compulsory cycle lanes in the UK, unlike Ireland, which is a plus in my book.

DublinWriter

While the attitude of UK drivers is more safety conscious, I've found them to be less tolerant of (motor)cyclists and far less curtious to other motorists on the whole.

There seems to be a lot more pent-up agression there than there is here on the road.

Bunnyhopper

Mucco wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'advisory' and 'real' cycle lanes, as there are no compulsory cycle lanes in the UK, unlike Ireland, which is a plus in my book.

They don't have in the UK the stupid law which we have here that requires cyclists to use cycletracks whenever they are provided (regardless of how badly designed, constructed and maintained they are).

However, in the UK they do distinguish between mandatory and advisory cycle lanes in the sense that a driver "MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its hours of operation," but can "drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line" if "it is unavoidable" (according to The Highway Code). Maybe that's what Civilian_Target had in mind.

In my experience, drivers tend to have a pretty flexible notion of what counts as unavoidable. Nonetheless, the best place I've ever been for urban cycling is Cambridge.

blorg

Haven't cycled in London for ten years - sorry to hear it's that bad! Thought there seemed to be much more cyclists there now though. Of course Dublin ten years ago was a much better place to cycle too.

The _only_ place I've cycled that was worse than Dublin was Portugal (Lisbon and out towards the north), which really was dreadful. Drivers acted like they had never seen a bike before. Spain, France, Italy, Germany all _much_ better - although I did find Berlin (which has a lot of cyclists) a bit hairy and did see more than one cyclist almost get whacked by an inattentive driver. Dublin is also significantly worse than Boston or New York, where drivers seemed very courteous and careful.

Just back from cycling around Valencia and region and felt much safer than Dublin. Drivers did things like slowing down and waiting until the other side of the road was clear before overtaking, truly incredible stuff.

rubadub

Bunnyhopper wrote:

They don't have in the UK the stupid law which we have here that requires cyclists to use cycletracks whenever they are provided (regardless of how badly designed, constructed and maintained they are).

Yes, the fact that the government issue the gardai with MOUNTAIN bikes for cycling on roads is an indirect way of admitting that the roads are unsuitable for a normal bike.

milod

Mucco wrote:

I actually prefer London to Dublin for cycling.
London has many more bus lanes which bikes can use, and there is a push to get people out of their cars and onto public transport or bikes. The congestion charge and pro-cycling publicity has made a big difference to cyclist numbers, especially in the last two years. In the parts of London I frequent (W, SW, NW), the road surfaces are infinitely better than Dublin.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'advisory' and 'real' cycle lanes, as there are no compulsory cycle lanes in the UK, unlike Ireland, which is a plus in my book.

Agreed, on the whole I found London better than Dublin, but to be fair to the OP - Ealing and around is a sh1th0le for cyclists - my main experience is of London NW (Kentish Town, Camden etc) and toward the City of London which is way better than anywhere in Dublin.