Film 4 on NTL Digital

quad_red

Hey all,
Just an update - our NTL went ga ga at the weekend (see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055001298 )

The NTL guy came this morning. He replaced the box but my girlfriend went at him about Film 4 and the fact that it is bloody free and we should have it.

He stonewalled her telling her it wasn't free and you need to get the movie package etc etc. Now, this isn't an issue for some of ye cos ye have it already. But some don't.

Cue a pestering campaign tour de force by my lovely gf and subsequent result.

So, as of 10 mins ago, we have free unlocked Film 4 and Film 4 + 1
(sky movies etc are all still locked out with the 'you have to subscribe to this channel message coming up. I asked her to check this so NTL hadn't tried a slippy one).

Quad

watty

You mean included in whatever package you have. There ARE NO free channels on cable. I know it is a bit pedantic but we MUST be accurate on this or else UPC could claim we encouraging piracy. If you have no subscription you have no entitlement to any channels. Therefore none are free.

Each package has a lineup of included channels. Extra channels may sometimes be added without additional charge. But they are not at all free.

No doubt as UPC upgrades the network the packages will become standardised and you won't have problems like this.

bk

How much are you paying pm for Digital, €5 (about 60 channels) or €10 (about 120 channels)?

Film4 is available on the €10 package, but I don't think it is on the €5 package.

I have Film4 on the €10 package and I don't have the movies package. So if you are only on the €5 package, then they were right, your not supposed to be getting it.

quad_red

watty wrote:

You mean included in whatever package you have. There ARE NO free channels on cable. I know it is a bit pedantic but we MUST be accurate on this or else UPC could claim we encouraging piracy. If you have no subscription you have no entitlement to any channels. Therefore none are free.

Er, sorry about that. I may have been a bit to general in my use of language there.

I don't really know what the €5/€10 package stuff means.

We were told it was €19.99 for the basic analogue service or €24 for the basic digital service.

We got the basic digital service - mainly because the first 3 months are free.

The installation guy told us Film 4 was part of our package. It wasn't. This morning we were told that to get Film 4 we would have to upgrade to the full movie package (sky movies etc.). Which was rather irritating as people on here have the same package and HAVE Film 4.

The reason I posted is cos they tried to bully us into upgrading to the full movie package to get it when:
A) Some people have it without the optional movie package upgrade.
and
They were eventually willing to add it on for no extra cost (but only after demanding it).

gerryo

watty wrote:

Each package has a lineup of included channels. Extra channels may sometimes be added without additional charge. But they are not at all free.

If Film4 is FTA, is there a charge for operators (such as Sky or UPC) to provide it to customers?

If not, & aside from the basic operator costs involved in providing channels; if UPC decide not to offer Film4 as part of the basic lineup, that's their decision & there is no obligation on their part to provide it for free just because it is FTA.

Customers can either vote with their feet, or get satellite, or live without it.

Having said that, if Film4 is FTA & they don't charge UPC for carrying it & UPC don't want to include it in the basic package, it does weaken their offering somewhat. It is slightly risky using FTA channels to increase revenue, but again, that's their call.

If most of the channels you watch are available terrestrially or FTA, (possibly also FTV if the cards are available & cheap), it may be more cost effective to leave UPC & get a satellite setup, which might save € longterm, possibly pay for itself in the first year.

Currently, 8 out of the 18 channels on UPC's basic MMDS are available terrestrially or FTA. When the balance* tips, it's time to review the deal.

I expect satellite ownership will increase exponentially when/if C4 goes FTA.

Just my 0.2 cents.

* I know there are more channels FTA than offered by UPC, these were ignored to keep it simple, but if these are included UPC's offering looks way worse

watty

Almost all FTA channels except the shopping / religious /ethinic on Satellite are not Free To Carry.

Sky technically do not provide any FTA. Some of the Sky encrypted material is not "sky provided" either. Sky rent space on various satellites. Satellite and Terrestrial FTA can be received legally without any subscription or PayTv receiver.

Some FTA is Free To Carry, meaning another broadcaster can receive it and rebroadcast it (on Cable or Terrestrial or even satellite) for free.

Other channels that may be Free To Air on Satellite or Terrestrial are not Free To Carry. e.g. BBC, ITV, Film4. You must have agreement and pay a royalty to retransmit them.

If I started my own Satellite service at different position in the sky, I would have to pay for nearly all the FTA stations on 28.2 (Sky) if it was Pay TV only. If it was very popular and many in UK watched it instead of 28.2, then BBC might want on it and then they would have to pay me, to be Free To Air.

Basically, to carry a station outside its normal area, you have to pay them. If it is inside the stations normal geographic area and they want to be FTA or on the pay TV package and you as operator "not interested" then they have to pay you.

Some channels can be "must carry" for Terrestrial or Cable Networks. (TV3 & TG4 on Analogue MMDS, and RTE1/RTE2, TV3 and TG4 on cable.)

I'm fairly sure UPC pays for
all BBC. all ITV, C4, Film4, any other Sky or UK TV channels, FTA or not.

I'm sure they don't pay for RTE, TV3 or TG4.

I don't know what C6 status is. I'd be sure UPC doen't pay for it. They might have to pay UPC :-)

Some Channels oin Sky Pay TV pay Sky, other channels get paid by Sky. BBC is paid by Sky for Irish EPG. BBC pays to Sky for UK EPG. BBC pay their own carriage direct to the satellite operator.

Satellite subscriptions to Sky already exceed UPC Digital. Only Digital + Analog cable + MMDS still beats Sky subs. No-one knows how many Freeview and FTA satellite or even non-Sky payTV Satellite there is. (10,000 DTT, 80,000 FTA sat inc cancelled Sky subs and 3,000 non-Sky PayTV all +/- 30% is my guess).