children saying no

katiemac

My friend was sending her teenage daughters to school yesterday morning and as it was raining heavily told both to put on their newly bought wellies and raincoats. They are 15 and 17 respectively
Both refused to wear them for the usual reasons being laughed at by their friends, not hip etc.
I called to her last night amid a major row between my friend, her husband and both daughters over the matter. The father told them that the next time it rained they would wear them of get a good spanking.
I think he was just threatening the spanking as she said he has never laid a finger on them.
She is beside herself with worry over what next to do with them.
Any suggestions?

squire1

My first impression is that buying wellies for teenage girls is just asking for trouble. At 15 and 17 are they not old enough to make their own decisions and suffer the consequences, even if that be wet feet? To me they seem to be too old to be told what to do, give them advice yes but let them take or reject that advice and learn their lessons.

That is just my tuppence worth.

dubgirl

tend to agree with squire - there is no way at 15 or 17 I would have worn wellies and a raincoat

Nevyn

Why not get them thier own umbrellla and really you have to let them make choices but you need to have a clearly laid out set of punishments for things.
No tv, docked pocket money, extra chores arround the house ect rather then threaths about hitting them.

BreadBoard

Just say;

"Look you don't have to wear the wellies and raincoats, but if you don't your clothes will be soaking, your feet will be smelly from your shoes being wet and the other students will be laughing at you and if you don't wear your wellies and raincoats you can dry your own clothes. So just put on the wellies and raincoats go to school, when you get into school go to the toilets and take them off, no one will know you had them on".

Winnie001

At 15/17 I have to say that they are old enough to decide what they wear (apart mayb from really slutty gear!) and it really is their problem if they get wet - they are old enough to deal with the consequences.

Kashkai

Raincoats I could agree with but wellies? - thats just asking for trouble. Even though I'm out of school 20 years now, if I'd ever worn wellies to school, I'd have been a laughing stock. Surely a decent pair of shoes will keep the water out. An umbrella is also the obvious choice for keeping you dry.

Finally, whats with the "spanking" threat. Hitting a child is not the answer to resolving any dispute. Some may argue (though not me) that a slight slap will bring an errant toddler to their senses but hitting a 15/17 year old could be construed as assault in legal terms. If things have degenerated to such an extent that physical violence is threatened against your kids, then its time to go for a long walk to cool down.

While teenagers can be annoying little so an so's (we were all there once), they are young adults who have earned the right to make basic decisions for themselves such as whether or not to get wet. If you point out to them that there's nothing cool about sitting in wet clothes with soaking hair and feet, they might a least take an umbrella.

Nevyn

Saying let them deal with the consquences sounds fine and fair enough but the consequences may be an expesive trip to the dr and a perscription and several days of work of one of the parents if they come down with flu. This should be pointed out to them.

Gurgle

katiemac wrote:

told both to put on their newly bought wellies and raincoats

lol
15 & 17?
And he's going to spank them?

This has to be a troll!

He should be happy they're not going out in mini-skirts & belly tops.

Thaedydal wrote:

several days of work of one of the parents if they come down with flu.

lol some more!

They are 15 and 17 right, not 5 and 7?

challengemaster

right, I'm 15, and to be honest i would NEVER be seen going to school/public places in wellies. that's just redicilous. they're old enough to decide on what they want to wear. the jacket thing is argueable but wellies are a _BIG_ no no. infact it could even lead to some light bullying/ jeering in the school.

Nevyn

Gurgle if you have an issue wit a post use the report post function instead of throwing the allegation of troll arround and myself or the other mod of this forum will look at it.

If a parent leaves a sick minor at home they can be done for neglect.
A minor, a child, a person under the age of 18.
What parent will leave thier teen ager at home a lone addled with flu, vomiting and sick ?

Gurgle

Thaedydal wrote:

Gurgle if you have an issue wit a post use the report post function instead of throwing the allegation of troll arround and myself or the other mod of this forum will look at it.

My apologies.
The mental image of a 17 year-old getting spanked for not wearing her wellies is just hysterically ridiculous.
When my sister was 17, it was more a case of simultanaeuos PMT and arguements over whether she would be picked up by my mother or dropped home by her friend after a night-club. Similar story now with my mates 17 yo daughter.

Thaedydal wrote:

If a parent leaves a sick minor at home they can be done for neglect.A minor, a child, a person under the age of 18.

I think you may be getting carried away.
Sending a 17 yo off to live with their mates in a flat in Dublin would be grounds for execution then?

Thaedydal wrote:

What parent will leave thier teen ager at home a lone addled with flu, vomiting and sick ?

I think the answer is somewhere between 'most' and 'all'.

Weren't you ever 17?

SmoothyG

I think the responses to this thread should give the OP something to think about. Perhaps your perception of a 17 year olds role in the family is needs a bit of up dating. When my father was 17, he was out making a living to support his younger brothers and sisters, when i was 17 I was expected to help with my family and I was encouraged into education and shown how to do every little bit of DIY you can think of.
At 17 you have only these last few months to prepare them for college, discussion and explanations for reasoning should be your "spanking" because at 18 they can, and at this rate will, tell you where to go with your wellies.
Even at 15, a child should have a large input into the family, not just told what to do. And as you get older, they will be your guide to the modern world. Sensible you may be, in a sensible world you do not live.

What parent will leave thier teen ager at home a lone addled with flu, vomiting and sick ?

My parents never took a day off work when I was sick from when I was like 12 or 13, let alone 17! At 18 a lot of people go away to college - who's going to look after them there? You have to learn to look after yourself gradually. I couldn't imagine leaving home at 18 after being wrapped in cotton wool all my life. I think parents who do that are being cruel. It's part of their job to prepare you for the real world. And I don't know any 15 year old that would be seen dead in a pair of wellies. You'd be teased to death until the day you left school ffs :rolleyes: I don't see the big deal, all school kids walk around in normal shoes in the rain, it's not going to kill them. They're more than old enough to decide for themselves. I'd be more worried about the parents not understanding that their kids are no longer 5 years old.

At first I thought this thread was a joke but then I remembered this lady my mam works with, who goes home from work early every day to pick up her 15 and 16 year old girls from school so the poor little darlings don't have to get the scary bus home :rolleyes: They're literally afraid of their own shadow. What good is that going to do?

Gurgle

Joanna Broad Bug wrote:

My parents never took a day off work when I was sick from when I was like 12 or 13, let alone 17!

I had to stay at home with the chicken pox when I was 8, and my mother dropped home at lunchtime to make sure I was alright.

Joanna Broad Bug wrote:

At 18 a lot of people go away to college

Way out west most kids start school at 4 and are starting college at 17, myself included.

Joanna Broad Bug wrote:

I remembered this lady my mam works with, who goes home from work early every day to pick up her 15 and 16 year old girls from school so the poor little darlings don't have to get the scary bus home :rolleyes:

I'd imagine when the leaving cert comes around they'll be applying exclusively to universitys/colleges at least 100 miles from home

Though that particularly mammy will probably just go to work 6 hours late every day after dropping them off.

I always thought my mother had trouble letting go of the apron strings. She was a libertarian compared to some of these.

Nevyn

If a child under the age of 14 is left at home alone that is infact criminal neglect and a parent can be prosecuted and if the circumstances are extreme such as the child is ill the child can be taken into care.

Over the age of 14 they can be left to mind themselves at home.

But even when mine are over 14 if they were ill I would want to stay at home and nurse them, it is a parents duty of care.

Gurgle

Thaedydal wrote:

If a child under the age of 14 is left at home alone that is infact criminal neglect and a parent can be prosecuted

I'm shocked at this tbh. Any idea when this came in? Any links to info?
Anyone ever prosecuted for leaving a 13yo to look after themselves for a few hours?

Thaedydal wrote:

But even when mine are over 14 if they were ill I would want to stay at home and nurse them, it is a parents duty of care.

I think you would have to consider the level of 'ill'. A head cold does not require much nursing, and a 14 yo would probably rather be left in peace with the TV and his/her lemsip than have mammy running in and out making a fuss.

I was left from when I was 13 onwards, responsible for my siblings who are a bit younger. I could handle it perfectly well. The year before, my mam had insisted on getting a childminder for the summer, this was after my first year of secondary school. It was an older girl from my school, about 17/18. I thought I was way too old to need a childminder, and was made fun of because everyone else in my class stayed home alone. In the end I didn't mind it, because she was fun and could drive us around, but I'd have HATED to have a childminder at 14. Obviously I'd have preferred my mam to be at home but it wasn't an option since she needed the money. I always thought my parents were really overprotective and strict, they were compared to all my friends' parents but now I'm thinking maybe not so much. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, I think there is a big difference between leaving an 8 year old at home (especially sick) and a 15 year old. An 8 year old is a young child, but a 15 year old is getting on for an adult.

SmoothyG

Where has the OP gone? Katiemac? are you there? Just interested to see what you make of the feed back here. I think this post has kicked off the topic of at teenage years how do you treat a child? I think a lot of parents get carried away with Protecting their children from the world instead of teaching them how to cope. The closer they get to 18 the less time you have to prepare them for what they will face out on their own.

deisemum

Jeez at 42 I wouldn't wear wellies unless I was working on a farm or doing something like gardening or fishing. With all the rain we get in Ireland I cannot recall seeing anyone apart from farmers, fishermen or gardeners wearing wellingtons or very young children in brightly coloured ones. I've yet to see anyone else on the way to work or shopping wearing wellingtons, why should teenagers be expected to?

Surely a coat/jacket along with an umbrella and maybe a change of shoes and/or socks would be sufficient.

I think a major row with the threat of a spanking is very wrong. It would be more in OP's friend's line to figure out which battles are worth pursuing and which to ignore or be open to alternative suggestions.

As a parent nobody's perfect you just try to do your best and you wont get it right everytime but I think the parents have gone way overboard on this one.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

And I don't know any 15 year old that would be seen dead in a pair of wellies. You'd be teased to death until the day you left school ffs

we're raising a generation of very strong willed, opinionated individuals I see.

luckat

Heh - nothing a teenager loves more than defying the parents!

What a worry-wart of a father. My father's attitude was "Ah sure you're not made of sugar, you won't melt in the rain!"

Time for a few negotiation lessons on both sides here, I think! And take a look around for some nice umbrellas. I have a gorgeous one a friend gave me a few years ago, from the Chester Beatty Library shop, with Japanese maple leaves on.

I'm sure if you can get them a pretty umbrella that would be a good start. And if it's not, and they get a few snuffles, well, isn't it all part of the learning and growing-up process!

The slogan of the young has always been, and will always be as long as humans (or whatever replaces us - giant cockroaches, revived dinosaurs) exist "Better to be dead than to be out of the fashion".

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

The slogan of the young has always been, and will always be as long as humans (or whatever replaces us - giant cockroaches, revived dinosaurs) exist "Better to be dead than to be out of the fashion".

actually I think you'll find the slogan of the young has always been, and probably will always be "please feed me, I haven't eaten in X amount of days. Where X is any number between 1 and starvation."

So they're going to get laughed at, boo hoo sunshine. IF you honestly believe your child is too weak to stand up to a little teasing about their footwear what hope do you have for them when they have to face real challenges?

they're being ignorant little brats imo, but they're teenagers so it goes with the territory. it's not up to the parents to worry about the fashion-conscience of their children, because the parents rightly know the opinions of all the little idiots their daughers go to school with won't matter to them when they grow up. We grow up and we grow out of it. And if it does make their life a living hell in school, that probably says more about their lack of character or belief in themselves than anything else. You should have enough to be happy in and of yourself, there is alot within you that warrants respect and admiration, and the opinions of your social circle matter only as much as you let them. that is the message parents should instill in their children through words and through deeds.

Good on these parents for trying to isntill some backbone in their children.

luckat

I have no doubt whatsoever that if these children were going to be laughed at for something *they themselves* thought important (the right to tattoo teardrops on their faces or wear school skirts with brass bobbles dangling out of the, to give a small frinstance), they would do so with passion and determination.

Being laughed at for something the mammy believes in is quite another matter.

magnumlady

My kids have never worn wellies to school even when they were little, there's no way I would even consider telling/asking them too.
I'm 38 now and my mum still tells me to wear a rain coat and put my hood up!!( like I will listen to her!)

we're raising a generation of very strong willed, opinionated individuals I see.

Do you mean people who live in the real world? Kids get teased and made miserable enough as it is, without making them wear wellies for no good reason. It just isn't a good reason and not worth taking a stand about. My parents were not 'cool', didn't let me shave my legs etc, pluck my eyebrows etc and it didn't do any good at all, just gave people reason to pick on me and made me feel ugly at the age where you're really self conscious. I don't consider that character building, I think it's misguided and petty. It's one thing making your kids go to school, do their homework, do the housework, etc - that stuff is important, it's another insisting they do things that really aren't necessary.

The mother in OP's post sounds like she's spoiling and mollycoddling her kids. I'd hate to raise kids who couldn't think for themselves. It's not as if they're being disrespectful, abusive, or sneaking out of the house - they're refusing to do something which would cause unnecessary embarrassment.

Being laughed at for something the mammy believes in is quite another matter.

Very true.

Gurgle

Mordeth wrote:

they're being ignorant little brats imo

15 and 17, not 5 and 7.
At 7 you can say 'wear your wellies, its raining'. At 17 it should be 'I put your raincoat in your bag in case you need it'.

Mordeth wrote:

Good on these parents for trying to isntill some backbone in their children.

Backbone - by bullying them into wearing what they're told to wear? Not letting them make the smallest decision for themselves?

sudzs

I'm a bit worried about the father threatening to give his 15 and 17 year old daughters a "good spanking"

At 17 it should be 'I put your raincoat in your bag in case you need it'.

My mother would not have done that either past the age of about 8 or 9. Any teenager can see that if it's raining outside, you either bring a coat or accept getting wet. It's way, way past the age of your parents being held responsible if you get sick because you were trying to look cool. If you DID get a cold - well then a lesson learned. It's not going to kill you. I just don't get why so many people fuss over their teenagers - they have to grow up sometime and start thinking for themselves. Being wrapped in cotton wool, forced to do whatever their parents want and never making a decision are not good things, unless you want your child to grow up scared of everything, weak, a pushover and a doormat. Bringing them up like that is bordering on cruel, IMO. Letting them do whatever they want isn't any good either, but there is a middle ground.

I know very few people who would even suggest that their teen daughters wore wellies in the first place. They're going to school, not wading through the Amazon rainforest :rolleyes:

mountainyman

sudzs wrote:

I'm a bit worried about the father threatening to give his 15 and 17 year old daughters a "good spanking"

I agree sudz and it is perhaps curious that the OP has not been back to check the replies (though for many people net access is intermittent). The threat sounds
[1] Grotesquely sexualised and inappropriate
[2] Abusive

Of course parenting is an emotional matter and different families have different levels of what they regard as appropriate in terms of guidance and independence. However the parents in the original post are in the wrong.

Pick your battles. Save the emotional intensity for soemthing other than wellies. I understand the theory that if youare aggressive with rules they wll rebel in harmless ways, but in my opinion it is not accurate.

MM

Ickle Magoo

mountainyman wrote:

Pick your battles.

Exactly...with 15 & 17yr old girls I'd say getting them to wear wellies is pretty low down on the old "parent must win this one" scale...I'd save my energy for the battle about boyfriends or sexy clothes rather than getting wet.

Gurgle

mountainyman wrote:

Save the emotional intensity for soemthing other than wellies.

I wonder if the Daddy wore his wellies into the office that day.

mountainyman wrote:

I understand the theory that if youare aggressive with rules they wll rebel in harmless ways, but in my opinion it is not accurate.

More likely they will rebel in every way at every opportunity.

Ayla

One question that hasn't been raised yet and may shed some more light on the opinions of the parents in the OP would be this:

The OP mentioned that the wellies & raincoat were newly purchased. Did the girls agree to/ask for this purchase? Sometimes teens will get caught up in the moment of shopping and ask for something, only to realize later that it was a bad idea and that they'd never actually wear what was bought. In that case, I think the parents would be justified in expecting the girls to wear the clothes.

Of course, if a well-intentioned but dillusional distant aunt bought the wellies & raincoats for the girls, it would be understandable that they got their backbones up. There could then be a compromise (ie: the girls wear them if/when they ever visit the aunt on a rainy day, etc.)

But if the girls had the clothes bought for them (maybe they were cute patterns and looked like a good idea in the store) they should have to justify the purchase by wearing them.

Of course, by the time teens are 15 & 17 the threat of spanking looks ridiculous and the parents usually wind up losing face. Instead the parents could say "fine, get wet, see if I care." Then the girls will spend all day in their wet clothes, get a cold, feel miserable, and be more responsible the next time they have to walk to school in the rain. We've all done it, it's almost a rite of passage

greenkittie

Thaedydal wrote:

But even when mine are over 14 if they were ill I would want to stay at home and nurse them, it is a parents duty of care.

The idea of my mummy ever nursing me when i was younger is hillarious to me, she was more likely to try and convince me i wasn't infact ill at all

magnumlady

Just had a quick look at the OP's other posts, she's quite a fan of wellies and raincoats.

Nevyn

magnum lady I fail to see what that has to to with the topic of the thread.
If you have an issue with a post or poster use the report function button or pm a mod.

kelle

Thaedydal wrote:

If a child under the age of 14 is left at home alone that is infact criminal neglect and a parent can be prosecuted and if the circumstances are extreme such as the child is ill the child can be taken into care.

Over the age of 14 they can be left to mind themselves at home.

But even when mine are over 14 if they were ill I would want to stay at home and nurse them, it is a parents duty of care.

I started babysitting my brothers at the age of 9- my parents found me a lot more responsible than the 15-17 year old babysitters that looked after us till then (one NEVER once checked on my 14-month-old brother one night). I knew which pub they'd be in in case I needed to phone them in an emergency.
I would've found it ridiculous if a babysitter was brought to our house when I was 12 or 13. It never did me any harm, though I know we're living in different times now. However, I don't intend getting my children babysit at 9!

Making 15 and 17-years olds wear wellies is ridiculous. Once they reach school, they change into slippers anyway, and their wet shoes have the whole day to dry.

kelle

Joanna Broad Bug wrote:

It's way, way past the age of your parents being held responsible if you get sick because you were trying to look cool. If you DID get a cold - well then a lesson learned. It's not going to kill you.

A cold is caused by a virus, and you will catch it whether you're wearing warm clothing or not if you come into contact with it!

magnumlady

Thaedydal wrote:

magnum lady I fail to see what that has to to with the topic of the thread.
If you have an issue with a post or poster use the report function button or pm a mod.

Oops, sorry I just mentioned that because people were wondering why the OP hadn't been back.

Blush_01

"Designer" wellies are still not suitable school attire - most schools have a uniform policy, dictating the colour of socks and shoes, as well as jackets these days.

To be honest, I walked between the local CBS and my school on a daily basis in 5th and 6th year for Physics and Economics. I had an umbrella and a jacket - both by choice - and would have been horrified if my mother attempted to make me wear wellies. Granted, they weren't a fashion item 4 or 5 years ago, but still. My mother could have asked me to please wear my wet gear, but if I didn't want to, it was my tough luck if I got sick. A cold is not reason enough to miss school. Ma's a PHN and we had to have a decent temp or be vomiting to miss school at any stage.

I find designer wellies ridiculous anyway. Unless they're functional - if you're going to be in seriously muddy situations - they're work wear. Different strokes, I guess, but they look silly and cheap, even if they cost a fortune, unless they're doing some proper welly-work, imho.

I think the OP (and her friends) are a bit out of touch with reality. If you have enough faith in the job you've done as a child rearer, you should know you've taught said child to be sensible in most situations, i.e. wear something to keep the wet out when it's wet outside; wear a coat when it's winter; don't get into a stranger's car; look right and left before you cross the road. If you don't, then how do you expect your children to live outside of home? At 15/17 the average "child" (eh... young adult anyone?) should know enough about their environment to attempt to protect themselves from any risks said environment may pose.

Gurgle

Blush_01 wrote:

At 15/17 the average "child" (eh... young adult anyone?)

I always found the phrase 'young adult' to be condescending. 'Child' is just downright patronising of course.

Maybe 'teenager' is best?

Shellie13

Winnie001 wrote:

At 15/17 I have to say that they are old enough to decide what they wear (apart mayb from really slutty gear!) .

Id say at 17 slutty is FINE!:p

Blush_01

Gurgle wrote:

Blush_01 wrote:

At 15/17 the average "child" (eh... young adult anyone?)

I always found the phrase 'young adult' to be condescending. 'Child' is just downright patronising of course.

Maybe 'teenager' is best?

I never had a problem with the term young adult. *shrugs shoulders*

Billiejo

katiemac wrote:

My friend was sending her teenage daughters to school yesterday morning and as it was raining heavily told both to put on their newly bought wellies and raincoats. They are 15 and 17 respectively
Both refused to wear them for the usual reasons being laughed at by their friends, not hip etc.
I called to her last night amid a major row between my friend, her husband and both daughters over the matter. The father told them that the next time it rained they would wear them of get a good spanking.
I think he was just threatening the spanking as she said he has never laid a finger on them.
She is beside herself with worry over what next to do with them.
Any suggestions?

Surviving teenagers. Normal behaviour. Peer group Very important.

SilverChair

Wellies?!
Dear god dont force that on the poor child.

When buying clothes for teenagers you should always get their input. Wellies is a bit rediculous, but together you should be able to pick out suitable rain coats that are fashionable and practical