Fake ID

LegacyUser

Someone I know had a fake Id (a drivers license) taken off them. They are only 17 and they were using it to go out while at college. A Bouncer at a club took it and said that they could pick it up from pearse station. They are really worried, I told them not to be as the guards have better things to be doing then chasing it up. AFAIK it is a scan of a family members license so it is probably traceable. Does any one know what might happen or have experience in this? I dont want to be wrong in telling them not to worry. TBH i think it is a minor offence with no one harmed but I wonder how the guards see it.

Not sure if this is the right forum so apologies if it is not.

LegacyUser

I got caught with a fake provisional before, all that came of it was my first and only JLO so tell your friend not to worry about it.
Just forget about it, chances are the Gardaí won't bother following up on it and even if they do, he'll get a slap on the wrists at most.

phantom_lord

Bouncers are far far too lazy to bother handing it in.

Riamfada

When Im not in college I work the door in a pub in town. Wouldnt bother taking a fake ID off someone nor would I bother calling the gardai. They have bigger fish to fry. Id tell your friend not to worry

Muzzy

What phantom_lord said, they couldn't be bothered, I worked in bars and nightclubs for six years, it will go straight in the bin.

phantom_lord

Anyone know what the penalty is for having a fake drivers licence?

Moojuice

Yeah dont worry about it. Most likely in the bin by now. Whats a JLO when its at home?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

Moojuice wrote:

Yeah dont worry about it. Most likely in the bin by now. Whats a JLO when its at home?

Jennifer Lopez or Juvenile Liaison Officer.

LegacyUser

Just wondering....Does a bouncer have the right to take your ID off you????
I understand the OP said the ID was fake and the guy probably wont argue to get it back, but im thinking what the fvck is the bouncer doing taking someones ID from them fake or not?

Moojuice

Passport is a more serious document. You use it to travel abroad, so Gardai would be rightly pissed off about it. What does a JLO do? Sit you down and have a chat?

megadodge

I'm a bouncer at a nite-club every weekend and I'm the so-called 'expert' on fake ID's.
In general I'll take a fake ID off them and tell them it'll go to the guards, just so I can get rid of them. If they get scared or worried and come back to apologize or negotiate I'll virtually always tell them not to worry, I'll just rip it up and not to do it again.
However, as sometimes happens, if they get very abusive and persist in denying it's a fake I'll make a bee-line to the first squad I see and that shuts them up pretty quick. The guards usually huff and puff but in reality they won't follow it up - "why bother ?" seems to be their attitude and I'd tend to agree. They're only kids trying to get into a nite-club like loads of others before them.

As for the poster that's wondering about a bouncer's 'right' to take a fake ID - what's the youngster going to do, tell the cops ? Reality bites !

jimi_t

Mehhh wrote:

Just wondering....Does a bouncer have the right to take your ID off you????
I understand the OP said the ID was fake and the guy probably wont argue to get it back, but im thinking what the fvck is the bouncer doing taking someones ID from them fake or not?

I think from the legal standpoint, it's a government document and that they're not REALLY supposed to keep them - but who's going to argue with them. The guards are clearly going to side with them and you're in the wrong anyways for using it.

And whatever you do, DO NOT ALTER A PASSPORT, CANCELLED OR OTHERWISE.
Stupidest thing you could possibly do, using someone elses is one thing - but using an altered one is a far more serious crime.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies guys. I told them not to worry.
Thanks especially to the bouncers who posted.

turbot

Also, there is a big difference between using such ID to get into a nightclub, and driving on it.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Darragh29

Mehhh wrote:

Just wondering....Does a bouncer have the right to take your ID off you????
I understand the OP said the ID was fake and the guy probably wont argue to get it back, but im thinking what the fvck is the bouncer doing taking someones ID from them fake or not?

No, fake or not it is your property and a bouncer has no right to take anything off you.

seamus

Darragh29 wrote:

No, fake or not it is your property and a bouncer has no right to take anything off you.

Any citizen may seize an item which they believe is being, or has been used in the course of commiting a crime, and then hand it over to the Gardai.

Besides, if a bouncer does take it off you, what are you going to do?

Santa Claus

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I know of 3 guys who got into trouble with fake passports in Colombia !

Technically, a fake copy of any goverment document including driving licences is a serious offence but the gardai would be more worried about drivers using fake licences than kids trying to get into clubs.

craichoe

Don't worry about it,

It would be too much effort for the gardai to prove anything as it wasnt reported at the scene and they'd have to fill out a rake of paperwork

Darragh29

seamus wrote:

Any citizen may seize an item which they believe is being, or has been used in the course of commiting a crime, and then hand it over to the Gardai.

Besides, if a bouncer does take it off you, what are you going to do?

No citizen has a right to take anything from you for any reason. Where are you getting this from??? Source???

padi89

megadodge wrote:

I'm a bouncer at a nite-club every weekend and I'm the so-called 'expert' on fake ID's.
In general I'll take a fake ID off them and tell them it'll go to the guards, just so I can get rid of them. If they get scared or worried and come back to apologize or negotiate I'll virtually always tell them not to worry, I'll just rip it up and not to do it again.
However, as sometimes happens, if they get very abusive and persist in denying it's a fake I'll make a bee-line to the first squad I see and that shuts them up pretty quick. The guards usually huff and puff but in reality they won't follow it up - "why bother ?" seems to be their attitude and I'd tend to agree. They're only kids trying to get into a nite-club like loads of others before them.

As for the poster that's wondering about a bouncer's 'right' to take a fake ID - what's the youngster going to do, tell the cops ? Reality bites !

Bit over the top taking someones ID even if its fake. Would it not just be easier to tell them you will not accept their form of ID as your suspicious of it and if they have a problem with it they can notify the guards or come up with a better form of ID.To be honest i think its pretty ignorant and bravdo like of a bouncer to be taking peoples possesions from them espeially with the attitude "what's the youngster going to do, tell the cops ? Reality bites !".We all been there at some stage in places we shouldnt be but then again theres always a few bouncers that think they are the law.If you dont like the look then just dont accept it,simple.

#Smokey#

seamus wrote:

Any citizen may seize an item which they believe is being, or has been used in the course of commiting a crime, and then hand it over to the Gardai.

Besides, if a bouncer does take it off you, what are you going to do?

So i can take a bank robbers gun 'cos he was using it in a crime and run out and give it to the guards.

on-topic: Guards only worry about passports as they can be used to get out of the country as for DL and Garda ID its really no big deal.

Dundalk Daily

Usual bouncers on a power trip, American cop wannabes usually. No doubt a big buch of keys on the hip. By the way its actually illegal to take possession of someone elses documents regardless of how genuine it is. Since when have bouncers the powers or authority to take anything of anyone.

colmranger

I'm also a doorman.

If we think it's a stolen ID we call the cops and they come straight over to look at the ID.

If it's a fake we just give them a ticking off.

By the way if a person gets into a pub/club with fake ID and if they are injured or hurt etc. the premises can be shut down! So it's not as light hearted of a matter as ye think.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Darragh29 wrote:

No citizen has a right to take anything from you for any reason. Where are you getting this from??? Source???

They can take your passport, and they can also arrest you

Private individuals also have powers of arrest without a warrant in certain circumstances - this is sometimes called a citizen's arrest. You may arrest a person who is committing an arrestable offence or any person whom you have reasonable cause to suspect is committing an arrestable offence. If an arrestable offence has been committed, you may arrest the person who is guilty of the offence or the person whom you have reasonable cause to suspect is guilty. This power of arrest may only be exercised if you have reasonable cause to believe that the person would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a Garda. If you do arrest someone you must transfer that person to Garda custody as soon as practicable.

Security people and store detectives have no more powers than other citizens in respect of arrests.

It is an offence for a person to resist a lawful arrest whether the arrest is carried out by a Garda or a private citizen.

Taken from here


However they wont arrest you

megadodge

Bit over the top taking someones ID even if its fake. Would it not just be easier to tell them you will not accept their form of ID as your suspicious of it and if they have a problem with it they can notify the guards

Been there done that - it doesn't work ! The majority come back again and again and again hoping that somehow you won't notice it's a fake this time. Very easy way to stop that happening. Take the illegal document off them ! Simple !

or come up with a better form of ID.

Are you suggesting if it's a well made fake to let them in ?

Judging by your username you're only 17 and have probably had a few bad experiences with bouncers. I'm not going to pretend we're all paragons of virtue, but if you tried to look at it from our point of view - night after night after night youngsters (whose detected presence on the premises could cause instant closure - think about that for a minute) coming up to you with fake ID and lying to your face and insinuating all sorts of things when you refuse them because you KNOW they're lying, then (a minority, but very annoying) getting abusive and calling you and your family everything under the sun, then threatening you, etc. etc. etc. There's only so much
sh!t a person can take.

I'm at it 6 years now and in general I enjoy the job. In fact I'm often referred to as 'The Nice Bouncer' and if you took time to re-read my original post you can see that I actually agree with you on certain points - "If they get scared or worried and come back to apologize or negotiate I'll virtually always tell them not to worry" ""why bother ?" seems to be their attitude and I'd tend to agree. They're only kids trying to get into a nite-club like loads of others before them" - not much bravado displayed there !

As for "ignorant", your ignorance of the law and the potential consequences for the club for breaking it is quite clear, so before you comment on this issue again try thinking of it from a bouncer's/legal point of view.

the_syco

You gotta wonder how many kids have gone into a Garda station, asking for their "fake ID" back:D

OP, don't worry about it. Unless you pissed him off, he'll proberly just throw it in the trash can.

King of Kings

i was a bouncer for 8 years in dublin.

taking the iD off them gets them away form the door and outha your face.
At the end of the night I was usually too tired to bother my ass going near a police station and in fact I guarantee no garda would be bothered with such a petty thing either - they'd just bin it anyway (IMO)

A passport may be different though.

Terodil

Darragh29 wrote: »

No, fake or not it is your property and a bouncer has no right to take anything off you.

Actually it's not that easy.

Passports and IDs are the property of the state that issues them.

Silverfish

Any particular reason you dragged up a three year old thread?