Range Specifications

Chipboard

Did they include a specification for a proper range in the recent CJA and if so does anyone have it?

I have what I think is a perfect site for a range down the country. I know planning permission is probably the biggest hurdle but I reckon that if its not possible to get planning on this site, it wouldn't be possible anywhere.

If anyone has the spec I'd appreciate a copy.

Rovi

Chipboard wrote:

Did they include a specification for a proper range in the recent CJA and if so does anyone have it?

I have what I think is a perfect site for a range down the country. I know planning permission is probably the biggest hurdle but I reckon that if its not possible to get planning on this site, it wouldn't be possible anywhere.

If anyone has the spec I'd appreciate a copy.

Here's something that's much more accessible and available-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima


..and :mad:


Seriously though, the thorny issue of 'Range Specifications' appears to be something of a 'make it up as we go along' thing with the DOJ.
If this mythical beast actually exists, it hasn't been released for us plebs to see. AFAIK.

.243

you dont need planning permission for a range,you need it for the club house as far as im aware

Sparks

You do need permission for a range (just ask Ticknock ).
The DoJ are using the old UK MoD standard for range specifications, you could probably get a copy from a few different sources - try calling the NRA, the NSRA, the MoD or the Midlands or Newry (I seem to remember one of the latter two posting the standard up here?).

les45

Mark, I think I sent you a spec to post last year,If you dont have it I can repost it.

John Fitz

rrpc

The standard the Gardai are usinig is JSP403

Planning permission is required for a range, indoor or outdoor.

Rovi

Rovi wrote:

...it hasn't been released for us plebs to see. AFAIK.

Well, how wrong was I? :rolleyes:

Sparks

les45 wrote:

Mark, I think I sent you a spec to post last year,If you dont have it I can repost it.
John Fitz

I've had a quick look John but I can't find where I've left it. It could be on any one of four different boxes as well, so if you could repost, that would be faste, thanks!

les45

I will e.mail it to you, this is the spec that we used ( NITSA) to build the new pistol range two years ago.

John

Sparks

Thanks John. I'll find a spot on a server for it and post the link back here.

Sparks

Here you go. The full-size version, and a smaller version:

rrpc

What length range do those plans refer to?

jaycee

Well.. It says all dimensions are in meters ,
and indicates a 10,15,20 and 25 meter firing points (FP )

rrpc

jaycee wrote:

Well.. It says all dimensions are in meters ,
and indicates a 10,15,20 and 25 meter firing points (FP )

I could read the numbers jaycee, I just couldn't believe that a 25m range required a 25 foot backstop!

Especially when you consider that the pistol firing points are no farther out than 15m.

Thje only range I have seen with this height of backstop, was a MG range in Bisley (and that was originally a 50m range).

jaycee

I dunno, it seems about right to me.
The whole principle seems to be based on defeating angles of deflection.

Even standing at a 15meter Fp , it dosen't require much by way of accidental elevation to be pointing at something 25 ft high, and there are Fp's out to 25 meters.( 82 ft)

Thje only range I have seen with this height of backstop, was a MG range in Bisley

PS:
You don't have to go to Bisley,
You should see the height of the backstops in MNSCI .. :rolleyes:

cantona

If I recollect correctly for a 25m FP the height of the backstop must be a minimum of 27Feet 8inches.Will try to find the formula and post it.From memory it has to do with a 6foot person discharging a round to a point 2meters in front of themselves and the height that the round could potentially reach from this.

rrpc

Seeing as the 25m FP appears to be for rifle only (as the 15 and 10 are designated pistol points) I calculate that the angle of elevation at the 15m FP has to be in the region of 27 degrees to clear the backstop and 37 degrees at the 10m FP. Those are fairly severe angles.

The angle of elevation at 25m is about 17 degrees.

jaycee, what length is the range in MNSCI, and what height is the backstop?

jaycee

jaycee, what length is the range in MNSCI, and what height is the backstop?

Which one ?
Rifle distances.. 50M, 100M,200M,300M,600M.
All easily over 25 ft..by a good margin.
Pistol...Ditto.

I don't have the exact figures , but I can find out this weekend for you.

demonloop

Here's a link to the plans on our outdoor range, not long completed, not great detail on it but might be of some use.

http://www.dungannon.org.uk/site_plan.html

rrpc

jaycee wrote:

Which one ?
Rifle distances.. 50M, 100M,200M,300M,600M.
All easily over 25 ft..by a good margin.
Pistol...Ditto.

That's my point jaycee, if you take a 50m range the angle of elevation to clear an 8m backstop is 9 degrees, at 100m it's 4.5 degrees etc. I'm not taking into account the relative bullet drop at those distances, but the difference between 50m and 100m with a .22lr bullet is approx 200mm.

If 10m backstop is used, then the elevations for 50m and 100m are 11.3 and 5.7 degrees respectively, that's why I find the backstop height in those drawings to be inconsistent.

If you were to transpose the 17 degree angle on the 25m range diagram to a 100m range, you would require a backstop height of 31m (100ft!).

Sparks

Surely the 25m range in NITSA is for 25m pistol? In which case, comparing it to rifle ranges isn't so useful. Look at the echelon shooting setup in Bisley for example - for rifle, you can do that safely, but people were flat-out refusing to do the same thing for pistol shooting there, simply because pistols move around more.

Umiq88

If you've ever been to hiltop have a look at the ceiling theres one or two holes in it. If your opening it to the public you dont know what sort of ejits you could get.

Sparks

That's not a reason to not open to the public of course; that's a reason to have well-trained range officers and safely constructed ranges!

Umiq88

I'm not saying that at all im saying on a range safety backstops inst something to be skimping on.

Vegeta

psittacosis wrote:

I'm not saying that at all im saying on a range safety backstops inst something to be skimping on.

agree completely.

I was in a range in america last summer and one of the girs who was there with me shot the roof with an m4

Sparks

one of the girs who was there with me shot the roof with an m4

:eek:

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

:eek:

the RO was right behind her talking her through it too.

It was in semi auto and i don'k know what happened. I think she may have only used the forward sight to align the target without even looking at the rear sight. She didn't realise the gun was at an angle.

It was a very good range though. There were video cameras being monitored from outside and if anyone fired off two rounds in too a short a perod of time they got a telling off over the intercom.