Fuel for the Marathon

netman

As I'm doing longer runs I keep wondering about what to eat/drink during the race. I usually bring a small bottle of water with me (500ml) with a sports drink mixture. I'm usually quite tired and worn out at the end of it.

Then one time I went running with a buddy of mine who drove down the route before we went for the run and dropped off bags with water bottles and cereal bars. Even though the weather was much worse that time, I didn't feel as bad. We did run a bit slower than I'd go on my own, but I think it was the extra fuel that made the difference.

So now I'm more convinced than ever that the water stops won't be enough.
I'm thinking of bringing a couple of these with me for the Marathon:
http://www.eas.co.nz/products/content.asp?ID=154&group=17
and:
http://www.maximuscle.com/viperextremebars

I'll try it out on my next long run, don't want to be experimenting with food on the marathon day itself

What are the rest of you taking with you?

billyhead

I am planning to use these http://www.irishfit.eu/gels.htm. I purchased them online on Monday. I have not tested them yet however. When I did my 20 mile run 2 weeks ago and a 22 mile run last weekend I stopped in a shop halfway through the runs and just purchased a bottle of gatorade and a mars bar.

Odysseus

Personally I use the water stations and carry a water bottle with a sports drink, I have this with a mars bar at the half marathon stage.

jasonb

I've tested a few different things over the last few months to see which works best for me, as a lot of it is personal preference.

I'll have a bottle of Powerade with me ( I find it less sweet than Gatorade ), which I'll take sips from as I run. Every 3-4 miles I'll have a Go Gel ( you can get them in Cycle Superstore in Tallaght ). I'm meeting my girlfriend at around the 15 mile mark, where I'll get another bottle of Powerade, and a few more Gels to get me to the end. I'll probably also get a Mars Bar off her in case I need it.

I'll also take a bit of water on at the water stops, but to be honest that'll only be if I need to wash out my mouth from the sweetness of the powerade / gels.

I reckon with that system I'll take about 250-300 Kcals an hour, and I think anything more than that would just upset my stomach. Most importantly though, I'm used to drinking Powerade, and taking the Gels, while running, so it'll be nothing new for me.

J.

HardyEustace

I'm going to use water and then power gels.

Tried the lemon and lime power gels first. They were absolutely vile-like drinking warm vomit, I think its because the gels are so sweet they don't make sense with lemon and lime.

Then I tried green apple. This was fine as its like eating a weird tasting toffee apple. Now I quite like it.

When I tried the gels first I used to divide it into quarters and have it at miles 4/8/12 for a 16 miler for example. One I tried to have 50/50 half way through but i felt sick due to its sweetness. However you can get used to necking one in one go as long as you build up slowly.

One thing I have noticed is that people take loads of gels during the run. I'm only taking one gel during an 18 m run and was planning on having 3 MAX during the marathon... Is this wrong????

comer_97

i've noticed a lot of people talking about taking on a lot of gels. From experience 1 or 2 seem to be ok and more than that would make me sick.

I think a good breakfast, sports drinks, water, a gel and maybe a bananna during the marathon should suffice.

quozl

i took 4 during one 20 miler to see how'd they'd agree with me. No problems at all, so i'll be taking quite a few during the race. If it doesn't disagree with you then it's basically free energy that you might as well have unless you're absolutely sure that you won't need it.

I'd find a banana harder to run with inside me than the equivalent calories of gel. It very much differs from person to peson.

I've barely taken any gels in the rest of my other long runs as I don't want to train myself to rely on them. I want to be able to go 20 without and then use the extra calories for the 6.2 miles left

HardyEustace

quozl wrote:

so i'll be taking quite a few during the race

quozl wrote:

I want to be able to go 20 without and then use the extra calories for the 6.2 miles left

Don't mean to be smart but does that mean that you'll be going with out gels till about mile 20 and then loading them into you or does it mean that you'll start off with taking one or two at miles 20 and then load them into you or take them all through the race at intervals?

Clum

Apart from the banana I'm thinking along the same lines as comer.

Don't overlook the importance of carb loading before the run. Taking in carbs during the run helps us complete the distance but you can prepare for the bulk of the run in the days leading up to it.

I've read that the average body can store around 500 grams of carbohydrate (glycogen), or 2000 kcals, in it's muscles and liver. 500 grams of glycogen should be enough to run up to 18 miles.

Of course there's still another 8 miles to go so taking in carbs during the run is important. I also read that with the build I have (80 kg - ish) I'll need between 700 and 800 grams of Carbs to run for 3 or 4 hours...for me that means I'll need something like an extra 250 grams of carbs during the run.

All the guides I've read also suggest taking in 30 - 60 grams of carbs an hour, no more. A litre of gatorade contains about 55 to 60 grams of carbs but I can't see myself drinking a litre of gatorade an hour! The Lucozade Carb Gels have 30 grams of Carbs per serving, probably be a lot easier to take one gel tube than a half litre of sports drink every 30 mins.

Having said all that I know myself I can't eat more than one or two carb gel tubes over the course of the run so while I take on plenty of water and Gatorade along the route I'll probably settle for one gel tube somewhere between the second and third Gatorade station.

Wine Gums and Jelly Babies are known to have helped many a marathon runner complete the task too so I'll probably store a handful of them in my shorts pocket...

quozl

HardyEustace wrote:

Don't mean to be smart but does that mean that you'll be going with out gels till about mile 20 and then loading them into you or does it mean that you'll start off with taking one or two at miles 20 and then load them into you or take them all through the race at intervals?

Nope, sorry I wasn't clearer. I mean that I don't want to need energy gels just to do 20 mile training runs. I want to be well capable of doing them without, so that come the big day the fact that I'll be getting about 500 calories of energy gel into me should pretty much guarantee I don't run out of glycogen by 26.2 miles.

I worry that if I relied on energy gels much during my actual training I wouldn't have provided the same stimulus to improve my glycogen storage. No idea if that's the case or not, but I figure better safe than sorry.

Clum, remember that you're not just burning carbs, you'll be burning a fair amount of fat. That was one of the main aims of your training. So depending on the pace you run at you may well be able to go 26.2 miles without taking in any extra calories during the run. I don't intend to give the impression that I think the gels are crucial, I just figure there's no harm in them for me as they don't upset my stomach, so I might as well take lots to be extra safe

Plus there's only 3 gatorade stops on the entire course! Carrying gels is easier for me personally than bulkier energy drinks, and I want the electrolytes from either gels or energy drink.

HardyEustace

quozl wrote:

remember that you're not just burning carbs, you'll be burning a fair amount of fat.

I thought that hitting the wall was when you started burning fat when you ran out of carbs and you didn't want to do that. In fact that the whole point of the energy gels/drinks/bananas/jelly babies was to keep your glycogen levels topped up so you never had to burn fat (which is far more difficult) and thus never hit the wall...

So confused!

Clum

HardyEustace wrote:

I thought that hitting the wall was when you started burning fat when you ran out of carbs

You're right. When the body runs out of glycogen there's no quick fuels to burn so it hits the wall. I'm sure there's other things happening to the body too, such as dehydration, but I've no idea how much fat is burned, or converted to muscle, if any.

Aswell as loading up on carbs during the days leading up to the run, and downing a load of sports drink a couple of hours before the start of the marathon, I'll be taking glycogen on board as I run, through both gatorade and probably just the one lucozade carb gel tube. Hopefully this is enough cos personally I'm not able to take in much more than that while running.

quozl

HardyEustace wrote:

I thought that hitting the wall was when you started burning fat when you ran out of carbs and you didn't want to do that. In fact that the whole point of the energy gels/drinks/bananas/jelly babies was to keep your glycogen levels topped up so you never had to burn fat (which is far more difficult) and thus never hit the wall...

So confused!

Nope, hitting the wall is when you run out of glycogen and you have to pretty much exclusively rely on fat, instead of the normal, and much better, mix of glycogen and fat. You're burning fat the whole time, in fact the better trained you are the more fat you'll burn at a given pace. That helps you preserve your glycogen supplies.

Check out #6 at http://www.pfitzinger.com/labreports/longruns.shtml
That whole page is interesting reading.

jasonb

Don't forget, not only are there only 3 Gatorade Stops on the course, but they're also only handing out small cups, not 500ml bottles. So I wouldn't rely on the three stops for all your energy drink needs. I'm used to running with a bottle in my hand at this stage, so that's what I'll be doing...

J.

netman

Incidentally, I went for a physio yesterday, my ankle's been giving me some trouble this week, and I asked the guy about food.

He said bananas take 3-4 hours to hit your bloodstream, and you see tennis players eat them during the break.. He says they'll get the benefit from that when they're out of the showers! He did recommend having a banana or two the night before, or very early in the morning, and not so much for the energy value but for the potassium.

And he recommended I warm up before the marathon. I was gonna treat the first few miles as my warmup Guess I'll do a lap of Trinity track as a warmup then.. I hope it'll be open.

tunney

jasonb wrote:

Don't forget, not only are there only 3 Gatorade Stops on the course, but they're also only handing out small cups, not 500ml bottles. So I wouldn't rely on the three stops for all your energy drink needs. I'm used to running with a bottle in my hand at this stage, so that's what I'll be doing...
J.

What a load of sh*te. Talk about doing it on the cheap. but its counter productive. I won't use gatorade now - if they won't respect the fact that gatorade in cups is useless. Have they ever tried drinking from a cup when running 4:15 minute kms - fecking useless. Sticky for the rest of the rest - I think not.

netman

I'll bring my own bottle, but I figure I'll be rid of it within the first 10 miles, even with water station stops along the way. I'll probably walk fast by the stops so I can manage a drink out of the cups.. I agree that bottles would have been much handier.

Gonna try the energy gels on the weekend. I've heard so much bad feedback that I've started looking at alternatives even before I try them

I found on wikipedia that honey is a good natural alternative to an energy gel, and I absolutely adore the stuff and wouldn't have a problem digesting it. You can also get it in nice dispenser squeezy-bottles which would make it much easier to take during the run. Has anyone tried this before?

HardyEustace

well as I mentioned before with the energy gels try taking 1/3 or 1/4 of the gel at intervals when you're starting off. The gel packets fold up pretty well so you don't have to worry about them spilling. You will have to get used to the sticky hands sensation though, its a bit off putting at first.

The apple flavour is as sweet as honey is so if you can manage to imbibe honey then the apple flavour gels are more or less the same consistency and sweetness. Just make sure that you have enough water as you do tend to be a little thirstier when you have the gels.

jasonb

The thing that bothers me is that there's no way you can get enough Gatorade out of three small cups ( one every station ) to get you through the Marathon. So it's basically pointless having the Gatorade Stations. At least the water stations are every three miles, and are ( apparently ) giving out small bottles, not cups.

As for the gels, remember, there are a lot of different types and flavours, and what might be too sweet for one person could be fine for someone else. I found the High 5 ones too sweet, but the Go Gels are fine for me. Your best bet is to try them out first ( and with 2 weeks left, there's not a lot of time to try them out! ).

J.

tunney

Where did you hear that the water was in bottles? Would be great it it was.

quozl

What is provided at the drink stations?

Pure clear still water in plastic bottles will be provided at the 8 water stations.

from http://www.dublincitymarathon.ie/general_faq.php

Another thing on there, and I only noticed a few days ago, is the course will be marked in KM, with mile signs only every 5 miles. Probably everybody else already noticed that but I'd have been pretty confused when I showed up with my mile splits written down

Transform

netman wrote:

Incidentally, I went for a physio yesterday, my ankle's been giving me some trouble this week, and I asked the guy about food.

He said bananas take 3-4 hours to hit your bloodstream, and you see tennis players eat them during the break.. He says they'll get the benefit from that when they're out of the showers! He did recommend having a banana or two the night before, or very early in the morning, and not so much for the energy value but for the potassium.

And he recommended I warm up before the marathon. I was gonna treat the first few miles as my warmup Guess I'll do a lap of Trinity track as a warmup then.. I hope it'll be open.

Thats the biggest load of crap i have ever heard - pro tennis players versus paddy physio, think i will go with the pros thanks.

Personally using cytomax myself and its the best i have ever used - will not be stopping for mars bars also!!!! Mars bars you say

ecksor

How many bananas do professional marathon runners consume during a race?

plodder

I use lucozade sports carbo gels. I take one just before each water station, and then wash it down with the water bottle from the station. I think I managed this at 7 of the 8 stations, but the taste became just too vile at the last one.

I think that is quite a lot really, but it worked for me. I didn't bother with the sports drink because it's served in cups, which end up as a sticky mess all over you.

Odysseus

Ah don't be picking on the humble mars bar, its gotton me through a few marathons, though a few handfuls of nuts can be a nice change as well.

Transform wrote:

Personally using cytomax myself and its the best i have ever used - will not be stopping for mars bars also!!!! Mars bars you say

Domer

Quozl

I was confused by your post regarding the Kms only being marked. I contacted the race organisers, and I can tell you that this is a mistake on the website. It should say marked every mile, and every 5 kms.... phew!!!

Domer

plodder

Domer wrote:

Quozl

I was confused by your post regarding the Kms only being marked. I contacted the race organisers, and I can tell you that this is a mistake on the website. It should say marked every mile, and every 5 kms.... phew!!!

Domer

I had seen that on the web site, so I assumed they actually meant it. They have not fixed it yet either. Frankly, it's a rather important point to mess up on.:(

quozl

Domer wrote:

Quozl

I was confused by your post regarding the Kms only being marked. I contacted the race organisers, and I can tell you that this is a mistake on the website. It should say marked every mile, and every 5 kms.... phew!!!

Domer

Oh lol. Good man for checking that out Domer. Eejits.

Transform

Its not the point.

The point is that any high GI food will work for most during activities over 60mins in duration e.g. rasins, carb drinks, gels, pinapple etc what ever works for you but i have to draw the line at mars bars!

Odysseus

Hi Transform, I do acknowledge that you are very acknowldegable about nutrition, but having tired a lot of stuff I find the mars bar or nuts works well for me. Maybe its more a psychological thing, I don't know. Anyway best of luck on the 30th.

netman

mmmmm.. mars bar..

mmm.. guilt free mars bar!!!

Tillo

Just dont try thr two together. i ate on Snicker while on a 21 miler & very nearly threw up. Way to heavy!

netman

I got some energy bars in Boots, their own brand (not a protein bar, but a carbohydrate bar). Tried it out on a long run on sunday and it worked pretty well for me.

It's got complex carbs as well, supposed to avoid blood sugar spikes. And they don't taste too bad either - worked for me anyway (didn't throw up hehe).

irlirishkev

Hi,

2 days to go, has anyone made any final decisions on what to consume during the race? Am looking for suggestions. Was thinking half a banana, or a mini mars bar, with some lucozade sport at about the half way mark..

K.

quozl

If you haven't already tried it by now on a long run you're taking a bit of a risk whatever you do.

I'd suggest getting a shed-load of gatorade into you at each of the three stops. Hearsay says nobody minds if you grab a bottle from behind the tables if you need more than just a cup.

Whatever you do it may turn out to disagree with you. There's not many calories in half a banana though so I'd take more than that.

I'll be using high5 energy gels - you can get them at the expo. So many people seem to have problems with gels though that I wouldn't really recommend them unless you've tried them before.