John Morrison Resigns

UnitedIrishman

John Morrison has resigned as coach of Mayo. Just heard on the radio here today.

I'm not that fussed to be honest. He's a very opinionated guy. It all stems from training from before the Laois game. The lads didn't think they were being trained hard enough and David Heaney as captain was delegated to talk to Morrison. Morrison walked out over it but returned the following week to take training. Then in the run up to the All-Ireland they weren't training hard enough again.

So on Monday at a County board meeting himself and Mickey Moran were criticised by a lot of clubs for the Kerry game.

Moran is waiting until he is either re-elected for a second year or not.

I don't think he will be and it'll most likely be Holmes and Noel Connelly as managers come January.

Waylander

What have Mayo got against managers who bring them as far as they have been in the championship since the early fifties. Maughan got nothing but grief and now Moran is getting the same. They had a bad day against the team that is most suited to play Mayo of any in the country, and to be fair looked like concedeing goals all season before they met Kerry, but he still got them to the final. That would be two consecutive managers who brought Mayo to the final and got the bullet. Makes no sense to me.

ANXIOUS

That makes no sense whats so ever to me, the two managers are both fairly competent. Even though i like neither of them. I think the chances of moran staying on with out his northern buddy there are very slim. Besides what did the people, players and clubs of mayo expect? Surely to god they must've realized that there all-ireland was beating dublin., and they never had a hope of beating kerry. They all go on about they didnt have a plan for donaghy.

well by the looks of it to me they hadnt a plan for seamus moyniahan or half the other lads.:D

UnitedIrishman

Waylander wrote:

What have Mayo got against managers who bring them as far as they have been in the championship since the early fifties. Maughan got nothing but grief and now Moran is getting the same. They had a bad day against the team that is most suited to play Mayo of any in the country, and to be fair looked like concedeing goals all season before they met Kerry, but he still got them to the final. That would be two consecutive managers who brought Mayo to the final and got the bullet. Makes no sense to me.

Getting to the final and getting hammered off the pitch is just as bad as going out in the second or third round. And if the players are annoyed that the training isn't tough enough (and then get beaten off the pitch due to superior fitness, skill and strength) then that's the managements fault.

Maughan was chastised because he made stupid decisions over personal things with players. Like David Brady being dropped for the All-Ireland final in 2004. Or Dermot Flanagan starting the 1997 final despite being injured (then coming off injured and having to reshuffle the whole team).

Moran is a nice guy and a passionate manager and I'd have no qualms about seeing him back. Just aslong as Morrison isn't with him.

Waylander

Well if you keep sacking management teams who have taken you as far as you have been since 1951, maybe you are getting your just desserts. If Mayo had met either of the other big 3 teams I think it would have been a much closer match. It is unfortunate they ran into Kerry, not because of some kind of long running whoodoo, but because the way Kerry are set up naturally, plays against Mayos weakest points. Mayo were always going to be in trouble against an attack that had goals in it and so it panned out. If you keep changing the managers and trainers, they are never going to have time to repair the long term issues. It was Moran and Morrisons first year, and they got you as far as the final. Not bad for a first year in charge, any county, with the possible exception of Kerry, would be happy with that, and happy to let that team try to bring the team up a level for the following year.

kevmy

ANXIOUS wrote:

Surely to god they must've realized that there all-ireland was beating dublin., and they never had a hope of beating kerry.

I object to that maybe beating the mediocre Dubs would be good enough for a mid ranked team but its not enough for one that had been in 3 finals (4 if you count the replay) since the Dubs had been in one. I agree that coming up against Kerry was the worst thing for Mayo and that they probably weren't going to beat them but they are in no way 13 points worse than them.
I didn't agree with M&M original appointment but they did well and were the only serious candidates for the job when JOMahoney didn't make himself available. I question getting rid of them at this time as I wonder who will now take over. Pat Holmes? Again he would be the only real candidate as a lot of good club managers and Johno don't seem interested. Alot of knoweledgable ex-players are now media types (McStay, Carney etc.) and won't want it.
Pat got a lot of stick the last time he was manager and I know in a way he deserved it (losing to Sligo was a disgrace) but he was thrown in ahead of his time because certain people didn't want Peter Ford to take over. These people have cost us two v good possible candidates but they never seem to be called up for incompetence.

Culchie

I'd prefer the management team to stay in place..... but being in management has responsibilities as well, it doesn't mean that they are not answerable to anyone.

Mr Morrison is particularily sensitive to criticism, and I think in fairness the Mayo Management team I (and players) deserve criticism for their All-Ireland display. As long as the questions/criticisms are fair and reasonable, then I think it's perfectly within the rights of the county board and county delegates to air these views.

This management team and Maughan's reign are two different situations, and I think (with due respect Waylander) that Maughan had completely lost the dressing room, was at odds with various clubs around the county, and had many personal problems with different players, and continously failed to select the best 30 players in the county ... he let personal issues cloud his judgement. Mayos best players this year were players that Maughan discarded for many reasons, none of them for footballing reasons.
These problems are not that well known outside the county, so on the face of it Mayo did well in recent years, but in many peoples eyes, we should have done better.

Don't get me wrong, Moran and Morrison done great to get Mayo to the final, and alot of historical Mayo footballing 'issues' were resolved this year, we had a panel that was close to our best players available for selection, and had a purpose and direction about them...... but just like any management appointment, they are accountable to reasonable scrutiny, and the All Ireland Final display deserves scrutiny.... something Mr Morrison seems to be allergic to.

I hope Moran stays on, he's a decent man, and I think he can do the job for us .... however if he's (or Morrison) not prepared to acknowledge concerns or engage with the appropiate county delegates (I mean club reps rather than County Board) .... then it will only cause friction in the long run again anyway.

Mayo has a great batch of players coming through, we won't be stuck for a good manager if Moran follows Morrison.

UnitedIrishman

Culchie wrote:

Mayo has a great batch of players coming through, we won't be stuck for a good manager if Moran follows Morrison.

Not so sure about that. Holmes and Connelly would take it. Apart from that a lot of guys have too much problems with the County Board.

There was an unamed guy in San Diego who was willing to pump millions into the GAA here in Mayo but wouldn't do it under present County Board.

John O'Mahony wouldn't work with them. Martin Carney won't. That's the only things standing in their way.

Problem is the County Board is impossible to get rid of because they just rotate their positions i.e Sean Feeney to Chairman for so many years, then Secretary. These guys are nominated by their clubs. And in turn these men get their clubs special royalties or a voice. James Waldron has come from absolutely nowhere to be chairman of the County Board. I mean absolutely nowhere.

So maybe there are more changes needed than just at management.

Waylander

Culchie wrote:

I'd prefer the management team to stay in place..... but being in management has responsibilities as well, it doesn't mean that they are not answerable to anyone.

Mr Morrison is particularily sensitive to criticism, and I think in fairness the Mayo Management team I (and players) deserve criticism for their All-Ireland display. As long as the questions/criticisms are fair and reasonable, then I think it's perfectly within the rights of the county board and county delegates to air these views.

This management team and Maughan's reign are two different situations, and I think (with due respect Waylander) that Maughan had completely lost the dressing room, was at odds with various clubs around the county, and had many personal problems with different players, and continously failed to select the best 30 players in the county ... he let personal issues cloud his judgement. Mayos best players this year were players that Maughan discarded for many reasons, none of them for footballing reasons.
These problems are not that well known outside the county, so on the face of it Mayo did well in recent years, but in many peoples eyes, we should have done better.

Don't get me wrong, Moran and Morrison done great to get Mayo to the final, and alot of historical Mayo footballing 'issues' were resolved this year, we had a panel that was close to our best players available for selection, and had a purpose and direction about them...... but just like any management appointment, they are accountable to reasonable scrutiny, and the All Ireland Final display deserves scrutiny.... something Mr Morrison seems to be allergic to.

I hope Moran stays on, he's a decent man, and I think he can do the job for us .... however if he's (or Morrison) not prepared to acknowledge concerns or engage with the appropiate county delegates (I mean club reps rather than County Board) .... then it will only cause friction in the long run again anyway.

Mayo has a great batch of players coming through, we won't be stuck for a good manager if Moran follows Morrison.

Fair enough about Maughan Culchie I remember a similar post by you at the time and I accepted it till people started saying the same thing about the current management team. I agree the manager is accountable, but not to club reps. He should only need to justify himself to the county board, why stop at the club reps, maybe he should have to justify himself to each fan who attended any game? I understand the frustration at the manner of the defeat, but if Mayo people cant accept that he also got them to the final in year one, and can use that as a platform to build on, they dont deserve whatever success they can get. As Kevmy said, it is some time since Dublin have been in a final, and most Dubs would be delighted to get there, and if Pillar does get us there next year, I am pretty sure noone will be calling for his head.

Kevmy, the Dubs have not been world beaters in the last decade, but they have never been far off Mayo in ability, they have just been getting tougher draws, and losing to the Armaghs and Tyrones and Kerrys of the world. Mayo have been trailing the top 3 teams the same as everyone else.

Culchie

Waylander wrote:

Fair enough about Maughan Culchie I remember a similar post by you at the time and I accepted it till people started saying the same thing about the current management team. I agree the manager is accountable, but not to club reps. He should only need to justify himself to the county board, why stop at the club reps, maybe he should have to justify himself to each fan who attended any game? I understand the frustration at the manner of the defeat, but if Mayo people cant accept that he also got them to the final in year one, and can use that as a platform to build on, they dont deserve whatever success they can get. As Kevmy said, it is some time since Dublin have been in a final, and most Dubs would be delighted to get there, and if Pillar does get us there next year, I am pretty sure noone will be calling for his head.

Kevmy, the Dubs have not been world beaters in the last decade, but they have never been far off Mayo in ability, they have just been getting tougher draws, and losing to the Armaghs and Tyrones and Kerrys of the world. Mayo have been trailing the top 3 teams the same as everyone else.

Nobody is calling for their heads, I think Mayo people are just about coming out of their shell shock about now, and looking for some answers to solve this Sam Maguire enigma ... but in fairness, Management just shrugging their shoulders and telling everyone to feck off, and won't even enter discussions about the All-Ireland defeat is pretty annoying at the same time.

They are building barriers and obstacles and putting up fences between the team set up and the supporters, and there's no need to do so.
We're all looking for the same thing.

kevmy

Waylander wrote:

Kevmy, the Dubs have not been world beaters in the last decade, but they have never been far off Mayo in ability, they have just been getting tougher draws, and losing to the Armaghs and Tyrones and Kerrys of the world. Mayo have been trailing the top 3 teams the same as everyone else.

Ya can't really use that as as excuse if your going to do well your going to have to beat the best. Mayo beat Kerry in the semi in '96,Tyrone in '04 and had Galway and the Rossies to contend with at all times. Also if you look at the stats for the last 5 yrs while everyone concends Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh are the top 3 Mayo would come out fourth in almost any criteria (AI final appearances, % matchs won in league and championship, decent teams defeated). I'm saying while the Dubs would be happy with AI final appearance Mayo are a couple of years further down the road in terms of experience and progression so would be looking for Sam.

I'm not calling for heads but I do think that M&M would have to look at themselves after the AI final. I don't think any Mayoman would have brought together this squad at this time so in that respect there appointment was justified. However if themselves and the fools in the county board are just going to argue then maybe they should go as internal strife is never good.


Christ I just heard McHale wants the job. Maughan-Lite IMO in terms of management and media handling. If M&M do go Holmes&Conneely better get it.

Waylander

I'm going out on a limb here, and this will be my last post in this thread as I think neither side will conivnce the other, But if I was in their position and was happy with what I had achieved in my first year in the job, having reached an AI Final, I am not sure I would be interested in justifying myself, in fact I am pretty sure I would tell people to bugger off, and would be happy to quit if I got this kind of reaction. Mayo folk need to look at the season as a whole, and remember how exultant they were after a brilliant comeback, in one of the best games in recent times, and not just look at the one game.

gbh

I think tbh, going slightly off topic, the only way Mayo can win an All-Ireland is by bringing in a Management Dream Team.

John Maughan had the fitness and conditioning knowhow, but not the tactical knowhow. If you could have him do the conditioning training and have another manager such as John O'mahoney or Mickey Moran handle team selection and tactics, then maybe it would give us a chance.

kevmy

You don't need Maughan or Moran on that dream team otherwise I agree with ya

UnitedIrishman

Waylander wrote:

I'm going out on a limb here, and this will be my last post in this thread as I think neither side will conivnce the other, But if I was in their position and was happy with what I had achieved in my first year in the job, having reached an AI Final, I am not sure I would be interested in justifying myself, in fact I am pretty sure I would tell people to bugger off, and would be happy to quit if I got this kind of reaction. Mayo folk need to look at the season as a whole, and remember how exultant they were after a brilliant comeback, in one of the best games in recent times, and not just look at the one game.

I know what your saying in terms of being the second best county in the country this year and the year we've had. But second best isn't good enough for Mayo anymore. Finals are there to be one. We've been second best on over 20 occasions in the last 25 years between U-21, Senior and Minor.

What sort of message does it send out when the management are saying "Ah sure, we were the second best country this year. That's good enough for me". The day Fergie says that , is the day he'll leave Manchester Utd.

Dublin is different. Since 1995 they've only really reached Semi-Finals and Quarters and gone out to the top three. We've reached the final in 06, 04, 96, and 97. Our last three losses being to Kerry who have played the same way every single time. High balls into a target man. The management didn't cop and when they were questioned they had no answers.

I've no problem with Moran because I think he genuinely felt the pain of losing an All-Ireland, he genuinely feels at home in Mayo.

With Morrison, he's done nothing but complain. About the fans, about the players, about the venues, about the travel. If he wants to moan, he can go back up north.

nacho libre

I'm glad Morrisson is gone for reasons i've outlined in an earlier post.



I do hope Moran stays because of his tactical nous and the fitness and strength coach Kerry had this year needs to be hired. He said Kerry would reach their peak this year in terms of strength and conditioning after a three year programme he devised. You certainly saw the evidence of that against Armagh when the likes of Galvin was knocking Armagh players off the ball. I have a bad feeling Paidi is going to get the job if Moran goes.

Culchie

nacho libre wrote:

I have a bad feeling Paidi is going to get the job if Moran goes.

Well Johnno is up to his neck in Fine Gael now, so he's not available for foreseeable future anyway.

I have an inkling that the next Mayo manager could be Denis Kearney, a tremendous player from the late 1980's/early 90's.
He was in and around the shortlist last time around.

He has coached Curry to two Sligo county championships in the last couple of years. (Curry has a population of approximately 9 people:) )

IMO, any team he is in charge of what be lacking that steel that Mayo require.

He's gets my vote anyway. I am bias though, as I know him well.

kevmy

If Moran goes your going to be looking at Holmes&Coneelly, McHale, Paidi and a few other Mayomen who haven't yet shown there hand (possibly Kieran Gallagher).
Of those above I'd hope Holmes gets it. He was thrown in at the deep end when he took over before by the county board just to spite Peter Ford. Also the team was in transition '96, '97 team falling away and '04 '06 team still to young. The only thing i'd fear is if he'd bring baggage with him.
McHale would be a disaster, great player but to much of a media man and has never before managed aserious team.
Paidi i won't insult anyone by saying he should get it, schmoozing to the media, thinks he's great and should have won at least another title with Kerry.
Other Mayomen could come out of the woodwork and i wouldn't have a prob with Kieran Gallagher either if he got it.

I guess we'll have to wait and see folks

patmac

kevmy wrote:

Paidi i won't insult anyone by saying he should get it, schmoozing to the media, thinks he's great and should have won at least another title with Kerry.

I can understand why Páidí gets stick but as a Westmeath man Páidí gave the players that extra belief that Mayo needs when it comes to finals, his team talks were legendary and would be a good man to have in the dressing room on AI final day for that reason alone but admittingly for feck all else.