pellet guns

Nevyn

The seem to be everywhere and being sold as toys I had tought that pellet gun airsoft guns were illegal, am I wrong ?

civdef

If they have less than one joule of muzzle energy they are now classed as toys, not firearms. This legislation came into force a couple of months ago (Criminal Justice Act 2006). For more details, see either the shooting or the airsoft/paintball sections, where this has been discussed in some detail.

Nevyn

Thanks for that, bugger so there is no point in threathing the little darlings who have been aiming at my window with them with calling the garda.

seamus

Well anti-social behaviour is anti-social behaviour

Whether it's stones or pellet guns, you can still call the Gardai

Nevyn

I know and I know how much good it might do also.
I think I will just have to buy some more water balloons.

Dave!

Fight fire with fire and invest in one of these babies!

Nevyn

Eh no, thanks all the same. I prefer the waterballoons approach.
If i choose to water my garden by chucking waterballoon out the window and on to my property that is my business and they would have been told to go home , ger off me grass and get out of my garden before I start to water my roses.

Irishpimpdude

Hahaha if you dont mind me asking where have you seen them for sale?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

DaveMcG wrote:

Fight fire with fire and invest in one of these babies!

that's how to do it....but one would need a pair of balls to use one of these

hullaballoo

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

that's how to do it....but one would need a pair of balls to use one of these

No need for that. If I see much more of those comments from you, you will be banned. If you don't have something useful to say, just keep schtum.

NUTLEY BOY

Surely, even if the "guns" are not illegal, they are weapons and being used to threaten OP's property and person.

If they break something is that not criminal damage ?

Incidentally, be careful about defensive measures no matter how much you are provoked. Remember that you can only use reasonable force to defend your property and person depsite the fact that these little gits might well put your eye out or worse.

If you clobber one of them they will probably be characterised as poor little innocent darlings out having fun when they were visciously assaulted by this horrible monster whom they were actually shooting at the relevant time. Give me strength.

Alternatively, you could always ring 999 saying that you have been threatened and fired on by what looked - in the darkness - like a hand gun. If there is any luck the ERU might turn up and show off their even bigger and louder guns.

cushtac

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Surely, even if the "guns" are not illegal, they are weapons.

They're not weapons. Civdef has already explained that they are now classed as toys. That's not to say they can't be reported to the Gardaí for their anti-social behaviour, but they don't have 'guns'.

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Alternatively, you could always ring 999 saying that you have been threatened and fired on by what looked - in the darkness - like a hand gun. If there is any luck the ERU might turn up and show off their even bigger and louder guns.

That is a very dangerous and stupid suggestion to make. People have been killed as a result of people making idiotic 999 calls like this.

NUTLEY BOY

cushtac says " They're not weapons. Civdef has already explained that they are now classed as toys. That's not to say they can't be reported to the Gardaí for their anti-social behaviour, but they don't have 'guns'".

How do you say that they are not weapons ?

I understand the point about them being classed as toys. However, is it not possible for these to be utilised as weapons to effect a threat or even inflict personal injuries.

If a person went in to their local bank with one of these "toys" to commit a robbery what would they be charged with ? Armed robbery or robbery with a toy ?

cushtac says "That is a very dangerous and stupid suggestion to make. People have been killed as a result of people making idiotic 999 calls like this."

If, like me, you have no expertise in firearms how do you make the judgement that what is being pointed at you is real or not especially if you have visual impairment or it is dark ? I know that I couldn't discern the difference. That is why I would ring 999 to have it sorted out by people who do know what they are doing. I was not advocating making a knowlingly false 999 call when you know for sure that it is only a toy gun.

cushtac

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

How do you say that they are not weapons ?

I understand the point about them being classed as toys. However, is it not possible for these to be utilised as weapons to effect a threat or even inflict personal injuries.

If a person went in to their local bank with one of these "toys" to commit a robbery what would they be charged with? Armed robbery or robbery with a toy?

They're toys, they're not capable of damaging property and the chance of personal injury is slight. I take your point about robbing a bank with one but you could do the same thing with a cap gun or water pistol, neither of which are 'weapons'.

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

cushtac says "That is a very dangerous and stupid suggestion to make. People have been killed as a result of people making idiotic 999 calls like this."

If, like me, you have no expertise in firearms how do you make the judgement that what is being pointed at you is real or not especially if you have visual impairment or it is dark ? I know that I couldn't discern the difference. That is why I would ring 999 to have it sorted out by people who do know what they are doing. I was not advocating making a knowlingly false 999 call when you know for sure that it is only a toy gun.

The OP knew it was an airsoft/pellet gun, the title of the thread is 'pellet gun' - so he clearly knows it's not a real firearm. You said he could ring 999 and tell the Gardaí he'd been threatened with a gun in the hope that the ERU would turn up. To my mind that is a very irresponsible suggestion to make and if it were acted on it could lead to someone getting killed.

Sparks

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

If a person went in to their local bank with one of these "toys" to commit a robbery what would they be charged with ? Armed robbery or robbery with a toy ?

Armed robbery. The rule, as I understand it, is that if you point a toy gun at someone (or an unloaded real one) and they honestly think it's a real, loaded firearm, then you've committed an act of assault.

NUTLEY BOY

Sparks wrote:

Armed robbery. The rule, as I understand it, is that if you point a toy gun at someone (or an unloaded real one) and they honestly think it's a real, loaded firearm, then you've committed an act of assault.

Thanks Sparks. That clarifies the essential point that I was thinking of. I have since been told that virtually any article can be considered as an "offensive weapon" but that is a judgment to be made in context of the facts.

cushtac, to clarify one point. I see what you say about the OP's particular knowledge in that given set of circumstances. I agree with you fully that if, on the facts, the OP knows it is not a firearm a 999 call would be out of order.

Mind you, with the age of criminal consent to be raised to 12 I am sure that some of these innocent little darlings must be about to have an even bigger laugh at the Gardai who really and truly will not be able to do anything with them save for some more serious offences !

Sparks

I have since been told that virtually any article can be considered as an "offensive weapon" but that is a judgment to be made in context of the facts.

Exactly. Firearms and Offensive weapons Act 1990, sections 9 and 10. Or, as a Garda once put it, "if I see him coming up from the river with a tacklebox and a rod and a knife on his belt, it's a fishing knife. If I see him walking into the disco with a knife on his belt, it's an offensive weapon."

IT Loser

Sparks wrote:

Armed robbery. The rule, as I understand it, is that if you point a toy gun at someone (or an unloaded real one) and they honestly think it's a real, loaded firearm, then you've committed an act of assault.

Assault, under the Non-Fatal Offences Against The Person Act, 1997, and under the Common Law, is when you perform an act such that the recipient is subjected to an immediate fear of force being used against their person.

Thats what we call "2(a)" assault.

"2(b)" assault...is when you actually hit them.

Overheal

Isn't that battery?

I only wish some eejits would try to stir crap at my place...I'd tear into em with the replica M16 Carbine my stepbrither has (can empty a plastic clip of 45 pellets in about 2 seconds )

IT Loser

Overheal wrote:

Isn't that battery?

I only wish some eejits would try to stir crap at my place...I'd tear into em with the replica M16 Carbine my stepbrither has (can empty a plastic clip of 45 pellets in about 2 seconds )

2(B) Assault is BATTERY, YES.

Battery is an assault which causes physical harm.

Assault is making the victim think you are going to cause them harm.


So...if I walk up BEHIND you and pop you in the ass cheeks with a pellet...whats the charge?

:cool:

IT Loser

Overheal wrote:

Isn't that battery?

I only wish some eejits would try to stir crap at my place...I'd tear into em with the replica M16 Carbine my stepbrither has (can empty a plastic clip of 45 pellets in about 2 seconds )

HI! The way you say Stepbrither reminds me of the kid in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales"..when the Union Soldiers try to take kids rifle, he objects, saying "I'll be needing that for squirrells and sich"

Classic!

PS...where can I get one of these rifles...ta.

IT Loser

They're not weapons. Civdef has already explained that they are now classed as toys. That's not to say they can't be reported to the Gardaí for their anti-social behaviour, but they don't have 'guns'.

WRONG. A hurley isn't a weapon. Until I hit you with it, with the intention of hitting you with it. A kitchen knife isn't a weapon..until it is used as such. The toy guns aren't firearms but are weapons where they are used to hurt folk. If I pick a toy up and throw it at you, do you reasonably suggest that I can say "ahh...it were only a toy"



That is a very dangerous and stupid suggestion to make. People have been killed as a result of people making idiotic 999 calls like this.

Please...he's having a laugh, a joke.:rolleyes: Relax.

seamus

IT Loser wrote:

WRONG. A hurley isn't a weapon. Until I hit you with it, with the intention of hitting you with it. A kitchen knife isn't a weapon..until it is used as such. The toy guns aren't firearms but are weapons where they are used to hurt folk. If I pick a toy up and throw it at you, do you reasonably suggest that I can say "ahh...it were only a toy"

As best I know, if you are in possession of something which can be used a weapon and it can be reasonably shown that you were carrying it for such use, then you can be charged with possession of an offensive weapon.

I recall a man getting charged with "Possession of a baseball bat" a number of years back after he turned up at another man's door with one. He never hit anyone with it, but it was reasonably shown that he wasn't on his way to play baseball...

Overheal

His Dad's in the Irish Defence Force... Sgt. I think....he got it through Turkey or somewheres I think....Im not sure if he pulled any strings, but its a possibility

haz

seamus wrote:

I recall a man getting charged with "Possession of a baseball bat" a number of years back after he turned up at another man's door with one.

I remember a sentencing report, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, of one man who had hit another man on the head with a hammer on a platform of the London Underground. The first man's employment as a freelance carpenter, with the hammer in a toolbag, on his way to a pre-arranged job of work was considered important enough to reduce the conviction from assault with an offensive weapon to assault.

Turner

For producing a bat or hammer there is a seperate offence of producing an article capable of inflicting injury.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA12Y1990S11.html


As for the pellet or BB guns. If they are capable of firing a metal pellet they are considered a firearm. So although a pellet gun might only come supplied with plastic balls, if it can fire a similar ball made of metal it is classed as a firearm.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA17Y1925S15.html

Sparks

Chief--- wrote:

As for the pellet or BB guns. If they are capable of firing a metal pellet they are considered a firearm. So although a pellet gun might only come supplied with plastic balls, if it can fire a similar ball made of metal it is classed as a firearm.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA17Y1925S15.html

That's completely incorrect. The law states, as of August 1 this year, that to be a firearm, a BB gun has to have a muzzle energy in excess of one joule. You could exceed that with a fast enough plastic BB; or come in under it with a slow enough metal BB. It's a product of mass and velocity (1/2mv^2 to be exact).

Overheal

I can ditto that: Ive been shot with both and I can tell you it isnt the ammo thats the deciding factor when it comes to a pellet gun/rifle/shotgun(yes, shotguns, with scatter-shells)

To conclude this discussion (I can only hope), A pellet device under a designated Muzzle velocity is not considered a firearm. Conversely, a Firearm is not the only kind of device capable of being used as a weapon.

However, I think theres a shade of grey for if you try to threaten someone with a Pellet Gun, and they believe it to be a Firearm.

Sparks

A pellet device under a designated Muzzle velocity is not considered a firearm.

Erm, no. A shotgun is a pellet "device" that is most assuredly a firearm. What is not considered a firearm is an airgun of muzzle energy (not velocity) under one joule.

However, I think theres a shade of grey for if you try to threaten someone with a Pellet Gun, and they believe it to be a Firearm.

There's no grey area at all there - that's assault, plain and simple.

Gurgle

Thaedydal wrote:

If i choose to water my garden by chucking waterballoon out the window and on to my property that is my business

Some food colouring generously added to the water can give the grass a nice bright green or blue tint.
Be carefull though, you dont want to get it on your skin/clothes as it can be very difficult to wash off

IT Loser

Sparks wrote:

That's completely incorrect. The law states, as of August 1 this year, that to be a firearm, a BB gun has to have a muzzle energy in excess of one joule. You could exceed that with a fast enough plastic BB; or come in under it with a slow enough metal BB. It's a product of mass and velocity (1/2mv^2 to be exact).

Are you Sparksy from the Law Fac in UCD?

Cudda swored it were you....:eek:

Sparks

Nope, not me.

Overheal

my error: Muzzle Engrgyl not velocity.

By shade of grey I mean: Isnt there a difference in severity of charge between assault with [a baseball bat] and assault with a firearm?

Sparks

Isnt there a difference in severity of charge between assault with [a baseball bat] and assault with a firearm?

Yes insofar as assault with a firearm is a seperate offense. But for ordinary assauly, I don't think so - assuming the assault with the baseball bat was done in such a way as to try to be lethal.