Prejudice. Where do you raw the line?

guildofevil

The perceived wisdom of the day is that prejudice is a bad thing.

For example, it's not OK to be racist.

But when exactly are you being racist?

It is racist to dislike black people, that is pretty much a given, but is it racist to dislike Nigerians if you have no problem with, for example, American black people?

Is it racist to dislike white people?

Is it racists to dislike French people?

Is it racists to dislike freckled people?

Is it Ok dislike a particular religion?

Is it Ok to dislike a particular ideology?

What if the ideology is also a religion?

Is it OK to dislike a particular culture or group of cultures?

What if most of the members of a culture, ideology or religion belong to a particular race, does that make disliking the culture, ideology or religion a racist view?

There are many other examples and questions which could be asked and while I have my own opinions on this, I'm not putting forward any answers here, just yet. I would just like to discuss it.

MrJoeSoap

guildofevil wrote:

is it racist to dislike Nigerians if you have no problem with, for example, American black people?

I would say that if you have had run-in's or unsavoury meetings with any group of people, be they travellers or Nigerians, Irish people or Americans, then it is perfectly natural to dislike them. I wouldn't consider it 'racist' as such. If you are, however, going to start judging people you have never met purely on their inclusion in any such group, I would consider that racist.

guildofevil wrote:

Is it racist to dislike white people?

Again, I would say it is racist to dislike someone you have never met on the basis of their skin colour.

guildofevil wrote:

Is it racists to dislike French people?

As above, only replace 'skin colour' with 'nationality'.

guildofevil wrote:

Is it racists to dislike freckled people?

Em, don't think so, but can't see any logic behind it!

guildofevil wrote:

Is it Ok dislike a particular religion?

I dislike most religions, and don't see anything wrong with it.

guildofevil wrote:

Is it Ok to dislike a particular ideology?

Of course, I would say most people dislike at least one ideology.

guildofevil wrote:

What if the ideology is also a religion?

Double whammy!

guildofevil wrote:

Is it OK to dislike a particular culture or group of cultures?

Again, I would say that if you were judging someone as a result of their culture, if you had no previous experience of them then it is racist. If you had a majority of bad dealings with people from a certain culture, then I would imagine it fairly natural to have a disliking for them.

guildofevil wrote:

What if most of the members of a culture, ideology or religion belong to a particular race, does that make disliking the culture, ideology or religion a racist view?

Hate the game, not the player .

Budd

it's not OK to be racist.

Says who?

Its human nature to be racist. We all make judgements on people conciously or sub-counciously based on their race,sex,age etc.

bonkey

guildofevil wrote:

The perceived wisdom of the day is that prejudice is a bad thing.

For example, it's not OK to be racist.

But when exactly are you being racist?

When you're acting in a prejudicial manner towards someone because of their race.

If you think I'm being smart and dodging the issue, I would suggest that the answer lies in understanding what a prejudice is defined as. It is not simply acting/thinking negatively about someone or something.

Ayla

bonkey wrote:

I would suggest that the answer lies in understanding what a prejudice is defined as. It is not simply acting/thinking negatively about someone or something.

First - bonkey, could you explain this further?

OP - I define racism as thinking or behaving in a particular way toward a group of people who you are grouping together based on their culture or skin colour. Although I understand it is human to categorize and thus judge people who are different than ourselves, basing behaviour towards those people on those conditions is not justifyable.

I see nothing wrong with judging people on their actions, but I find it reprehensable to make categorical statements toward a "type" of person based on traits they may not have control over.

I call myself an attitudist...I don't care where you come from or what you bow down to, but I will really dislike you if you have a bad attitude. As an example, I lived next to an immigrant family (no idea where from) and had no problem with them until they continually disrespected my property and allowed their children free reign to throw rocks at my dog. Then I had a lot of problems with them, but I don't think badly toward their nationality or immigrants in general. Instead I just grew resentment towards this particular family b/c they had no respect for me. I wasn't saying "I don't like these 'x' people, or I don't like people who come from 'x'," I was saying "I don't like these people." Period. That doesn't make me a racist.

guildofevil

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Is it racists to dislike freckled people?

Em, don't think so, but can't see any logic behind it!

And the rest make perfect sense?

Budd wrote:

it's not OK to be racist.

Says who?

Its human nature to be racist. We all make judgements on people consciously or sub-counciously based on their race,sex,age etc.

Well, you can be as racist as you like, but once you open your mouth, you're treading on thin ice:

Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA19Y1989.html

I'll give an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about and I'll keep it out of Ireland to try to keep things at a distance from peoples personal feelings. You may or may not agree with the validity of the example, and it is a generalization, but I think it holds true, in general.

I have noticed that the term “Cheese eating surrender monkeys”, is often applied to French people, usually by Americans and people just laugh. If you were to refer to Mexicans as “Lazy wetbacks” there would be no laughter and you would probably be called a racist.

(I am talking about a mainstream setting here, obviously you could get a laugh out of the second statement in the right environment).

Exit

guildofevil wrote:

I'll give an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about and I'll keep it out of Ireland to try to keep things at a distance from peoples personal feelings. You may or may not agree with the validity of the example, and it is a generalization, but I think it holds true, in general.

I have noticed that the term “Cheese eating surrender monkeys”, is often applied to French people, usually by Americans and people just laugh. If you were to refer to Mexicans as “Lazy wetbacks” there would be no laughter and you would probably be called a racist.

Strangely, it seems to come down to skin colour on issues like that. French are (mostly) white, Mexicans are (mostly) darker skinned.

For instance, both of these sentences mean the same thing, but one is more offensive than the other to most people.

"I can't stand Australians"

"I can't stand Nigerians"

or

"I hate Anglicans"

"I hate Muslims"

They both use the exact same language, and therefore should mean the exact same things, but they don't.

Dades

It's not racist to dislike a race, culture etc.
However it may be racist if you act on or speak about that dislike.

Xenophobia has been in our genes since long before we walked on two legs. We can't expect those feelings to disappear overnight (relatively speaking), so all we can do in this age is suppress them lest they cause harm.

stovelid

as Sly Stone once said..

"Don't hate the black, don't hate the white. If you get bitten, just hate the bite"

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Hate the game, not the player .

Tha Gopher

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I would say that if you have had run-in's or unsavoury meetings with any group of people, be they travellers or Nigerians, Irish people or Americans, then it is perfectly natural to dislike them. I wouldn't consider it 'racist' as such. If you are, however, going to start judging people you have never met purely on their inclusion in any such group, I would consider that racist.

Exactly. Whenever a thread regarding travellers comes around on boards half the posters get banned for making "sweeping generalisations". In the last 20 years I could count on one hand the amount of experiences Ive had with travellers that I would describe as either positive or neutral. The rest of my experiences I found them to be violent, menacing, thieving thugs with bad B.O . Judging by my life experience, I would advise that travellers are best avoided. However for some reason this is seen as racist. Also, the context of sweeping generalisation is also odd. If I say "most travellers appear to be a shifty bunch" its racist. If I say "most Chinese seem to be hard workers" nobody cares, because its a positive statement. On boards you will find the folks sticking up for the likes of John Ward and demanding Nally die in prison are a bunch of fcuktards who have had zero experience with the people theyre supporting.

I remember one post on boards where a guy complained that he thought a large amount of Africans were rude in terms of please and thank you not being said. Racist, they cried. How in the **** is this racist? I worked in a fast food restaurent and tbh it is true, id regard about a third of the African customers as rude in terms of not saying thank you. Its not a majority but its a large amount and if you feel like getting it off your chest go on ahead. Similiarly i find the Spanish very rude, in fact possibly a majority of them. Thats not racist, its merely an opinion based on experience. Slightly related, Indians/Pakistanis seem to be more polite than Irish people. Another opinion, however because its not a negative one its not controversial. Go figure.

Zombrex

Tha Gopher wrote:

In the last 20 years I could count on one hand the amount of experiences Ive had with travellers that I would describe as either positive or neutral. The rest of my experiences I found them to be violent, menacing, thieving thugs with bad B.O . Judging by my life experience, I would advise that travellers are best avoided. However for some reason this is seen as racist. Also, the context of sweeping generalisation is also odd.

I think the point would be that the only encounters you would have in your day to day life with travellers that would make an impression would be negative ones since you probably don't mix with travellers that much.

There was a racist cop in a 80s TV show that said he never met a black man who wasn't causing trouble. The "hero" of the show (think it was that show about the angel travelling around, the one with the big hair), pointed out that the only time the cop ever experienced black people was when he was going into the black area of town to arrest a black man. So of course all the black people he is going to meet are going to be trouble makers.

His racism came not from making assumptions about the black criminals he was picking up, since most of them were scumbags, but from applying this limited experience with these black people to the wider black population that he had no experience of.