Season 3 of Battlestar and Iraq

magick

if you havent seen season 3 eps 1 and 2 then dont bother read down cos it might have spoliers !!!!1batmansymbol :eek:


anyway , anyone notice during the first 2 eps , theirs some scenes that remind me a lot of whats currently going on in Iraq right now , firstly when the cylon says after the bomb blast "dam insurgents"

second is the suicide bomb with the police recruites , which again is happening in Iraq.

and finally the nightvision footage, i remember seeing this footage a lot where the Americans would come in the dead of night trying to capture insurgent leaders

(oh and no i dont think the Americans are cylons!)

Nuttzz

true but the snatch squads could also be compared to some british forces in NI during the 70's, nazis before and during WWII, the Kamer Rouge (sp?) and so on, its easy to say Iraq becuase it is current, but it could be compared at any of these too. the last scene of ep 2 was straight out of the great escape for example (imo)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I liked commander tigh's 'hearts and minds' comment... at least I think it was tigh. I noticed alot of that kinda stuff in this seasons opener... was pretty cool.

Goodshape

I've always felt that BSG was inspired heavily by current real world events, though I actually thought it was a bit overdone in these two episodes (not much, just a bit. Have to wait and see how things go).

They seem to be saying (or trying to say) things which they can only get away with because, on the surface, it's "just a sci-fi show". The humans on new caprica are unquestionably a reflection of the people in Iraq, with the Cylons the occupying U.S. force. Which is an interesting way of doing things to say the least. They're really blurring the lines between the good guys and bad guys.

I also suspect that the radical change in direction for the show (done by skipping forward a year) was down to a desire to keep the show's themes topical. The first two seasons were basically a sci-fi retelling of the war on terror which was in full swing at that time -- with Cylons obviously in the terrorist role.

Now that's sort of old news, so rather than let the show go stale they've moved it along to a place which better reflects the current big issues, namely the war in Iraq and the aftermath thereof.

What makes the show so great at times is their ability to make us look at these things in ways we wouldn't usually, again made easier by being "just a sci-fi show". We're allowed to look almost objectively at the good and bad on both sides of the war.

Just hope they don't start over doing it. I can get my political commentary elsewhere, I don't really need it at the expense of a good sci-fi show (still slightly sceptical about this 'new direction'.. but so far so good I guess).

The Corinthian

Challenging accepted norms is something that has already been done to a lesser extent in BSG. The Humans - the good guys - are essentially polytheistic (one might say pagan), while the Cylons - the bad guys - are monotheists. This reversal of values, giving the familiar to the villains while the unfamiliar to the heroes is an interesting device in that it raises additional moral ambiguity, not to mention making everything seem more alien.

The insurgency device is much the same; The Humans - the good guys - are the insurgents, the terrorists, while the Cylons take on the roll of the ‘good guys’ in Iraq. This confuses the moral landscape and makes the parties involved seem that little bit more alien to the viewer.

jimi_t

They were two great episodes, but its starting to look and feel more like 24 than a Sci-Fi/Space series. Barring establishing shots of the planet and the

raptor/viper training exercise

there is little to excite like the dogfights of the last two series'. I hope we get some more exciting Baseship battles and Viper/Raider action in the next few episodes - I'm really missing it.

Thoughts:

Starbuck is clearly faking it, I'm waiting for the second stab Wouldn't be suprised if she (humanely) killed the baby and then took to the Hills and went through some big moralistic struggle.
Pretty certain that the Pres will have survived that group execution

Anyone see the teaser to episode 3 - Odama a cylon? Baltar a cylon? Woo!

Mainly though, I'm hoping that this slight heavy handedness won't progress into Battlestar Iraqtica :rolleyes:

Goodshape

jimi_t wrote:

Anyone see the teaser to episode 3 - Odama a cylon? Baltar a cylon? Woo!

Watched some of it until I realised I didn't actually want to know... didn't get that impression though (

about Adama or Baltar

), but I was thinking maybe

Roslin

.

There's seven guaranteed Cylons so far anyway, so that leaves five left to be revealed.

Mainly though, I'm hoping that this slight heavy handedness won't progress into Battlestar Iraqtica :rolleyes:

Same as that, but iirc Ronald D. Moore has said that they get back into space soon enough. This 'heavy handed' planet based stuff is probably good in the long run.. a nice diversion for the normal run of things and keeps it interesting in the least.

//edit
just read this on wikipedia's cylon page :

Moore has also stated that the humanoid Cylons are not based on pre-existing humans: "The idea is not that there was likely an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said "You know what? There's really only 12 of you." If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is."

That's interesting, and if they're not based on pre-existing humans, than that would definitlly rule out either of the Adama's and probably Baltar and Roslin too.

Vokes

The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said "You know what? There's really only 12 of you." If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is."

Yes, thats pretty interesting. Perhaps something like...

Boomer - Love
Leoben - Religious conviction
Doral - Militant
Six - Sexuality
Biers - ?????
Brother Cavil - Disinformation / Lies / Secrets
Simon - Intellectualism

?

Goodshape

Actually, just watched some of the behind the scenes videos on scifi.com, including Grace Park (Boomer) answering questions posted on the BSG forums. One of the posters says something like "people with verifiable history, like Starbuck, Roslin, Adama, etc. can't be cylons because we know they only started infiltrating the fleet recently", to which she replies "wrong!.. but anyway.." (unsurprisingly she doesn't elaborate).

So I guess anyone's a possible candidate... we know the Cylons have been away for 40 years prior to the attack, so if they've been infiltrating for even half that time they'd have had plenty of opportunity to set up families, get into government, etc. etc.

God I love this show

Johnny Storm

Goodshape wrote:

Same as that, but iirc Ronald D. Moore has said that they get back into space soon enough. This 'heavy handed' planet based stuff is probably good in the long run.. a nice diversion for the normal run of things and keeps it interesting in the least.
.

I agree. Those first two planet-bound eps were much better than I had feared at the end of last season. I think RDM said they'd be back in space after about 6 eps. I have renewed faith in the producers of this show not to go for the lowest common denominator. Keep it comin'!

sprinkles

Goodshape wrote:

Actually, just watched some of the behind the scenes videos on scifi.com, including Grace Park (Boomer) answering questions posted on the BSG forums. One of the posters says something like "people with verifiable history, like Starbuck, Roslin, Adama, etc. can't be cylons because we know they only started infiltrating the fleet recently", to which she replies "wrong!.. but anyway.." (unsurprisingly she doesn't elaborate).

But surely boomer had a history and infiltrated the fleet some time ago, so Grace's answer could merely be that point.

Although I would imagine that we'll find another series regular turn up on a resurection ship at some stage..

Vokes

My money is still on Crashdown

Though it begs the question, what excuse do the other 5 models have for not being on New Caprica.

sprinkles

I'd say they are but they prob aren't shown to the humans as some are more than likely still working as sleeper agents. Either that or it's purely to keep the viewers from finding out too early

Goodshape

sprinkles wrote:

I'd say they are but they prob aren't shown to the humans as some are more than likely still working as sleeper agents.

Yea, I'd say that. Only time we've seen 'all' of them together on New Caprica is in Baltar's office, and they probably want to keep their secrets from him as much as the producers do from us.

muppetkiller

Has anyone heard how American Audiences are taking the new season..
It's very obviously a take on Iraq and current US occupation.
I was laughing out loud (and loving every minute of it) at the night vision raids and suicide bombers elements. What a brilliant show !!!!

lostexpectation

http://news.google.com/news?q=battlestar%20galactica&sa=N&tab=wn

i hope they didn't undercook the suicide bombing...

http://www.slate.com/id/2151425/


good article but then somebody goes and ruins it all by comparing it the resistence in V...

Goodshape

What are the spoilers like on that article? Anything after Exodus pt. 1?

Without having read it anyway, I don't think it really matters whether or not the writers 'support' the Iraqi insurgency, whatever that means -- are we talking about a support for murder and death, or a sense of empathy for freedom fighters?

The show simply allows for a new perspective on the sort of issues facing our world today. It would be very unfortunate if they didn't do that and instead offered the same tired formula of "we're good, their bad". Life isn't that simple, no reason why sci-fi should be either.

Talisman

Goodshape wrote:

What are the spoilers like on that article? Anything after Exodus pt. 1?

No spoliers - it was written prior to the airing of Exodus Part 1.

DeVore

I think the Slate kinda got the wrong idea here. I've never read that site before but I wouldnt be surprised if it was a hardline news source. They dont want to see grey, they see BSG as now siding with the Iraqi's. I didnt see it that way, I saw it as a genuine moral question... I actually lost respect for Tigh and started to question their activities. I'm sure my flat wasnt the only one where we had a deep conversation about the morality of suicide bombings, defence of your home country etc... by putting it in a Sci Fi setting where noone feels strong direct connection to the two sides, it allows people to discuss it without colouring it with their on affiliations. ie: If I want to say that defense of your only remaining place to live justifies suicide bombings by the BSG crew, it isnt a direct criticism of the USA and I can have that argument with an american without feeling like I'm publically cricitising him or his countries actions. Thats a discussion that will generate more light then heat, or at least more then the usual US versus Everyone else arguments on the subject.

DeV.

lostexpectation

DeVore wrote:

I think the Slate kinda got the wrong idea here. I've never read that site before but I wouldnt be surprised if it was a hardline news source. They dont want to see grey, they see BSG as now siding with the Iraqi's. I didnt see it that way, I saw it as a genuine moral question... I actually lost respect for Tigh and started to question their activities. I'm sure my flat wasnt the only one where we had a deep conversation about the morality of suicide bombings, defence of your home country etc... by putting it in a Sci Fi setting where noone feels strong direct connection to the two sides, it allows people to discuss it without colouring it with their on affiliations. ie: If I want to say that defense of your only remaining place to live justifies suicide bombings by the BSG crew, it isnt a direct criticism of the USA and I can have that argument with an american without feeling like I'm publically cricitising him or his countries actions. Thats a discussion that will generate more light then heat, or at least more then the usual US versus Everyone else arguments on the subject.

DeV.

its seems to me they did some sort of diservice to suicide bombers by starting to quickly even after a year of occuaption