Hand from Boards game tonight

cooker3

1 hand is bugging me from tonight and wondering what everyone elses thoughts are on what I should have done.

I have 5300 and villian has me covered.
Blinds are 150-300

I have only recently been moved to this table replacing Tom who had gotten chiefed so just seen 12 hands.

The villian raises it up from middle position (seat 9) to 900, he has not played a hand while I have been at the table. I am on sb in seat 3 and look down at TT, it gets folded around to me.

I do what?

shoutman

what amount did the villain raise to?

Goodluck2me

shoutman wrote:

what amount did the villain raise to?

any limpers?

cooker3

He raised it to 900 and no limpers, just him, me and bb left.

luckyvegas7

i wouldnt push if you were thinking that at this stage..id flat call, bet out raggy flop...

Goodluck2me

luckyvegas7 wrote:

i wouldnt push if you were thinking that at this stage..id flat call, bet out raggy flop...

good line. its such a deepstack tourney no need to get frisky with good not great hand

Marcom

Call and see a flop.

wireless54

call and if the flop is rags or one over card bet 1200 on the flop. if u get re-raised all in then fold

Ste05

Nothing wrong with folding this. Who's the Villain, how much does he have? If he's an agressive player, you'll be asked to play for your whole stack here. You have too much to push, you don't have enough to raise without committing to the hand, also calling isn't great either. It's not a great spot to be in, TBH. Fold and play position.

rogue trader

Ste05 wrote:

Nothing wrong with folding this. Who's the Villain, how much does he have? If he's an agressive player, you'll be asked to play for your whole stack here. You have too much to push, you don't have enough to raise without committing to the hand, also calling isn't great either. It's not a great spot to be in, TBH. Fold and play position.

How can you fold? If you fold this you may as well be sitting there waiting for Aces for the rest of the night. Instant call.

Goodluck2me

Ste05 wrote:

Nothing wrong with folding this. Who's the Villain, how much does he have? If he's an agressive player, you'll be asked to play for your whole stack here. You have too much to push, you don't have enough to raise without committing to the hand, also calling isn't great either. It's not a great spot to be in, TBH. Fold and play position.

ya folding is crazy, if he`s aggressive check raise. i prefer lead rags, i also lead a ten high flop here.

DeVore

Knowing that table reasonably well I'd have reraised him as he had a wide enough range once The Chief wasnt in the hand. You dont mention what the relative stacks were but I might well consider pushing if either of us is low.

If the stacks are deep I'll stop and go him on any non-uber-scary board.

That table was ok, but Cheif was just uncontainable given the number of flops he hit. He almost never got punished for playing poor hands and frequently got paid when he needed to!

DeV.

Ste05

rogue trader wrote:

How can you fold? If you fold this you may as well be sitting there waiting for Aces for the rest of the night. Instant call.

With 0 information, I don't blindly risk my tournament on this hand. There's no need to wait for Aces, but I'd prefer to steal blinds and wait for a better situation.

goodluck2me wrote:

ya folding is crazy, if he`s aggressive check raise. i prefer lead rags, i also lead a ten high flop here.

You don't need TT to do this, what do you think will call that doesn't beat TT. It's just a risky play. And I hope you're not calling, hoping to flop a 10.

Obviously if people who weren't there knew who how the table was playing it would be easier to discuss, but as posted it's just blind gambling against a Villain who hasn't played a hand while the OP has been at the table.

bubbleking

what was your table image at the time?

i dont like risking a tournament on TT with no reads on the villain and a reasonably deep(ish) stack.

a possible approach (im not sayin its the ideal one) would be to fold showing the TT create a tight tabel image and use this to steal blinds and nail anyone that tries to make a move on you because if you push here its just a blind gamble.

rogue trader

By calling 750 to see a flop with pocket 10's, how are we risking our tournament?
We see a flop and we assess. We don't fold.

If we come up against JJ or higher, than thats bad luck but the odds of that are in our favour.

Hitman Actual

If I fold I definately don't show it! Ste05 makes a good case for folding, especially with your stack size, but I cant see myself doing that. But your stack size is a problem. With more chips, I think I'd call and bet about half pot on any flop. But if you do that here, you'd end up in 10BB territory, which is tricky. So against a loose raiser, I might just push and hope to take down the money in the pot now. Crude, but it takes all the complications out of the hand.

Ste05

rogue trader wrote:

By calling 750 to see a flop with pocket 10's, how are we risking our tournament?
We see a flop and we assess. We don't fold.

We're risking too big a % of our stack for my liking, I don't like to blindly risk half of my stack in situations like this.

What is your plan for the flop if it comes low and (a) you check and the Villain bets half pot?? Do we Push ?? or (b) we lead out half pot and the Villain pushes.


What if a J, Q, K or A falls?

rogue trader wrote:

If we come up against JJ or higher, than thats bad luck but the odds of that are in our favour.

What does this mean, just because we might be ahead now, you're still risking your whole tournament OOP, with a very marginal hand against an unknown holding, in the hands of a player who hasn't played a hand while we've been at the table. Calling it unlucky is not a good way to think about this, there's no need to resign ourselves to being unlucky here.

If you want to push then you're risking nearly 20 BB's (and our tournament) to win 4.5 BB's, not a bad return but not great considering the risk, but as far as I can tell you're advocating Calling. There WILL be better opportunities on the near horizon.

But again I'm talking blind here as I don't know anything about stack sizes at the table, or who the players were. But from reading Dev's post it looks like "The Chief" was involved in the hand and if the chief was the raiser or in the blinds and would call with his usual type of holding, then I'd push and take what should be a good bet for us. But even then, I'd rather fold and wait.

I certainly wouldn't show my hand either.

cooker3

Well I thought about this for good bit and put him through the ringer to quote him but in the end I folded.

Ste05 summed it up well but the way I seen it if I call then I am risking about 15% of my stack to call, a lot of the time there will be overcards and I find myself out oop not really knowing were I am, if the flop are undercards then I am in decent position and will take it unless I am against over-pair which I will be a decent percentage of the time I would guess. So in many ways I am almost playing it for set value with a lot of flops and I really don't want to be doing that.

If I raise then my stack size makes it tricky, a decent sized raise is 2500-3000 so left with about 2500 behind so I can't exactly fold if he re-raises me therefore the only real option I have imo is to push and I really don't want to be pushing blind with no reads when I don't have to, I have 17bb and lots of time to picks up blinds with steals etc.

Folding seemed best option but also it's the weak tight scardey cat option and if there was 1 thing I didn't want to do in this tournament it was be weak tight but there you go.

Incidentally after break I asked villian what he had and he told me he had QJ and would have insta folded to re-raise, he seemed pretty genuine about it but hey who knows he is a poker player after all!

Edit: player in question wasn't the chief if it was then I probably would have pushed.

boba_fett3099

I think this is a fold here tbh as Ste05 said its a large % of our stack to commit oop with a weak holding. And our stack size is very akward and just makes thing alot trickier..Fold and wait for a better spot.

Having said that the way im playing at the moment i call and donk off my chips on a 9 high flop :rolleyes:

RoundTower

Call and check most flops. You really are not very deep and this is a good hand. You should expect there is a good chance you will end up all in this hand.

edit: reraising immediately and getting it all in is also good. Folding is not.

Goodluck2me

RoundTower wrote:

Call and check most flops. You really are not very deep and this is a good hand. You should expect there is a good chance you will end up all in this hand.

edit: reraising immediately and getting it all in is also good. Folding is not.

i probably push here, i rarely call as you are basically expecting to hit a dream flop, they ar few and far between, 9 high is not bad but its hardly ideal.

Push, he probably has over cards like QJlol

Ediot: i see you have now posted what he had!lol robert.

PiperT

I had a very similar situation to this and this is how it played out.

Blinds 150/300
My Stack - 5.5k or so.

I'm in SB with 88.

Conor Smyth who had just given HJ a lifeline, raises to 900 UTG+1. He's been raising quite a few hands.

Its folded to me and having thought about it for a while I figured I couldn't fold the hand. I really felt that a push would be enough to get him off and that worse case scenario I'd be coin flipping for a double up.

After thinking about it and a bit of speech play thrown in for good measure, he calls for approx 40% of his stack.

He turns over 99 and no improvement for me and I'm gone.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I didn't need to make this play as I still had plenty of play in my stack at 150/300 and 45 minute levels. Aaaargh.

As it played out, the flop was raggy and I would have had an overpair so I probably would have gotten it all-in anyway in the end.

I have to say this was a fantastic tournament. As a relative newcomer to the game I believe that playing in games of this standard will really improve my game in the long term. A really nice bunch of people as well !

Gholimoli

I think folding this is just too weak.
The raiser here has a wide range and you have him crushed.
Having said that out of position TT does not really play well post flop.
I think you are just about deep enough to make a push good play.
Any deeper and a push is bad and I would flat call this and play post flop.
Any shallower and a push would be a no brainer.

I don’t like what Dev said about stop&go here specially since he suggested to do it if you were deeper.
If you were any deeper than this then it really does allow for post flop poker to be played .any deeper than that you could even reraise him.
So the deeper you are in this spot it opens more doors in terms of how to play this hand but I don’t like a stop&go with a deeper stack than what you have already.

boba_fett3099

Gholimoli wrote:

The raiser here has a wide range and you have him crushed.

I dont know if we can just assume he has a wide range. With no reads on villian apart from that he hasn't played a hand since we sat down i think it is very optimistic to think we have him crushed! I think that we are deep enough to wait for a better spot and not just push blindly when its likely we are either 50/50 or way behind.

Gholimoli

boba_fett3099 wrote:

I dont know if we can just assume he has a wide range. With no reads on villian apart from that he hasn't played a hand since we sat down i think it is very optimistic to think we have him crushed! I think that we are deep enough to wait for a better spot and not just push blindly when its likely we are either 50/50 or way behind.

its folded to villain on the CO.
his raising range here is 55+,A7+,KT+,QJ.
we have that range crushed.
if its a good player then his range could even be wider as he would be making a raise using his tight image knowing he has good position if he gets called.
also you are not 50/50 here.
if you get called you are prob 50/50 .
we are not pushing blindly,we have looked at our cards and we have TT.

boba_fett3099

Thought villian was in MP? And by blindly i mean pushing with no reads on villian except that he hasn't played a hand yet..

Gholimoli

boba_fett3099 wrote:

Thought villian was in MP? And by blindly i mean pushing with no reads on villian except that he hasn't played a hand yet..

OP says villain is in seat 9 and he is SB in seat 3.
my mistake that makes him one of the CO but still late position and his raising range does not change much.

boba_fett3099

Oh i wasn't paying attention to the seat numbers. Obviously then his range is wider than i first thought but i still think a push is marginal at best.