Tricky AK hand against a Super LAG...

Ste05

OK, the Villain in this hand is a decent LAG, he's about 36/8.3/2, over about 600 hands, somehow he's a winning player by about 2PTBB/100 in my stats, he very loose PF, but doesn't tend to get too out of line. i.e. He tries to pick up small pots, and picks up on weakness well. But when his stack goes in he usually has the goods, maybe not always the nuts but a solid hand or a very good draw but is certainly capable of making moves.

I'd been playing quite TAG (about 24/10/2 - which is tight for me) because the table was incredibly loose and aggressive. I'd made a couple of moves that didn't work and some that did with various holdings, so I'd probably have a trickyish kind of an image.

Anyway onto the hand....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($63.40)
BB ($249.70)
UTG ($462.80)
Hero ($247.80)
Button ($67.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, K.
UTG raises to $6, Hero raises to $14, [I raised here because I wanted to get the hand Heads-up with the Villain, where as if I called I'd nearly definitely be playing a 4 or 5 way pot, which I didn't want.] 3 folds, UTG calls $8.

Flop: ($31) A, J, 4(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $18, UTG raises to $40, Hero calls $22. [Anyone raise here?? - I decided not to, I wanted to give him a chance to bet again and I think he'll only call with a hand that beats me]

Turn: ($111) T(2 players)
UTG bets $78, Hero Fold/ Call/ Push????

I'm interested in hearing comments about my PF and Flop line and obviously people's Turn action...

Lafortezza

Raise more preflop imo. Flop seems ok.
Definitely leaning towards a fold on the turn. He obviously isn't too afraid of what ever your hand might be.

Ste05

lafortezza wrote:

Raise more preflop imo.

Ye, I'd agree, but this was specifically designed to make sure he called with what ever he raised with, and so no-one else would call without a monster. Usually I'll raise more, but this was just to get the hand Heads-Up. I didn't mind inflating the pot in position, although that could have been a mistake. I just really didn't want to play a multi-way pot here.

EDIT: Also to add, it wouldn't have defined my hand as much as it first appears, he'll know I could do this with S/C's a PP as well as AK+, before the leaking Implied Odds brigade start...

NickyOD

re-raise more preflop. I think you should have folded on the flop. There's no point continueing the hand when you're just going to be playing a guessing game.

cardshark202

I would make it more like 18-20 pf. I don't think this is an autofold. I'm probably not folding the flop getting 4:1. I like a call and re-evaluate the turn. In this spot I'm still undecided, I find aggro players will often c/r on draws, though its quite a small c/r. I think this is a tough spot. Can't decide on a turn line, probably fold.

Rnger

raise a bit more pf, id flat call the odd time against such a player. calling the flop raise is poor, raise it up. your often going to find a tougher decision on the turn.

As played, go back in time and raise the flop... in other words: yuck!

Ste05

OK, I've thought about my PF thinking, and while at the time I thought it was a situation dependant amount, I didn't want to make the pot un-manageable but I also didn't want to have multiple callers, nor did I want to min-raise (I know I effectively did that anyway), but I did want to get the hand heads-up.

So I found myself in an odd situation because I generally don't like re-raising with AK, I prefer to do it with S/C's or PP's (88+), i.e. hidden hands, that my opponents will have trouble putting me on, I can easily represent AK, so generally I feel like I don't actually need to have the hand to win the pot. But felt I had to raise here. I didn't want to make the hand any shallower than I had to, hence my raise amount. Generally I like to play multiple streets to see how the hand develops.

Although, I now agree that it was probably a mistake and I should have probably made it 18-20 if I was going to raise at all, although I'm in a quandry about it still because I think that a larger raise amount defines my hand far too much for the opponent (and when deep/deepish against a decent player, I hate having the lowest possible hand in my represented range) and he can just play easily against me. And I think it reduces my expectation in the hand, where the reverse implied odds far outway the chances of making money from the hand, bar the extra 2-3BB's Pre-Flop. Which I'm not really interested in TBH.

So as can be seen from the above, this particular hand wouldn't be how I would normally play it, and hence if anyone can see faults in my thinking I'd be happy to hear them, as it's a situation I'm sure to be in again. Should I have just called and played the multi-way pot with a disguised hand, because I really don't like making it 20 as the pot will be far too big for my mediocre defined hand?

I won't post my action and results just yet in case anyone else has an opinion, but I get the feeling that it could be a situation dependant decision and difficult to analyse here because of the PF raise amount.

But one thing I'll say is that there was no way I was ever folding the flop, if I did that I'd get run over and basically have to leave the table unless I got a big hand soon or really hit a flop, which I didn't want to because it was a lovely table to be at. I will never give a pot up cheaply to a LAG player, if someone wants to make a play in a pot I've taken the lead in, then they have to risk more of their chips than me. This flop C/R was terrible.

TacT

When I read the HH, the first thing that came to mind was that in your position I would have made it $20 to play prf if I was going to reraise it at all. The rest of the hand is far too tricky for me to say what I would have done. Given how it played out but I'd be looking at that fold button very seriously on the turn.

Ste05

OK, after an age, I called, I decided that with this crappy min raise he was just trying to slow me down with something like a bare FD or Jhxh, I thought he could have had JJJ but I thought he'd have lead out or re-raised more with that, so I discounted it slightly. I also thought he could have absolutely nothing (well a mid pair or the likes) and decided to try and take me off KK or QQ, as he would have known I respected his game.

After I called the flop, I thought he would take a shot at the pot on the turn with all the above hands, when I only called the flop, because it looked like I wanted to get to a showdown (which I did), so I decided to call again, giving him the option fire again on the river. The River came a beautiful 2c, he checked, I checked behind. He had AQ and MHIG.

I actually didn't put him on a weaker A at all because I didn't think he'd call my re-raise with it. So I was suprised when I saw it. Hence my confusion in the hand, I think I just got incredibly lucky that he happened to have the one hand I could beat, as looking back he could easily have had AJ or AT as well, (but TBH, again I think he would have either lead out or check raised more with these too)

TacT

nice, I reckon I'd have pansied out on the turn

fuzzbox

I woulda shoved the turn if I played.

As you played it - there is some merit to shoving the river.

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

I woulda shoved the turn if I played.

As you played it - there is some merit to shoving the river.

Ye, the turn is what annoyed me most, if I had of went with my read (although it was wrong) of a FD then I should have pushed, although I wasn't very confident in the read and was convinced that he'd only call with trips/ 2 pair even though I now realise he would have called with a FD too as he had priced himself into it. I think these marginal situations are costing me a good few BB's/100.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts in a River push. My thinking is his check was either a trap check, (although again I think this is flawed, because I was calling all the way so why wouldn't I call the river, unless he put me on a FD and wanted to give me a chance to bluff at the pot, which I could be liable to do) or else he had missed his draw and wasn't putting anymore money into the pot.

Hence why I didn't push, although I think he might have folded 2 pair hands had I pushed, but I hate turning my hand into a bluff. I probably just gave him too much respect, because I think he would have called a push, but obviously that's results orientated thinking, and as usual I probably over thought the hand (although my thinking at the time was just that he'll only call with a better hand)... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't know why this hand has bothered me so much...

fuzzbox

Most players at that level dont check a big hand on the river, so when he checks the river he almost never has a big hand.

Thus your AK is prolly the best hand - so hes either giving up with a busted draw, or checking a one-pair hand to induce a bluff.

So a bet has +EV.
Course he might have 2-pair this time ... but its not hugely likely that he flopped 2 pair, and he almost never checks a set on the river.

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

Most players at that level dont check a big hand on the river, so when he checks the river he almost never has a big hand.

Thus your AK is prolly the best hand - so hes either giving up with a busted draw, or checking a one-pair hand to induce a bluff.

So a bet has +EV.
Course he might have 2-pair this time ... but its not hugely likely that he flopped 2 pair, and he almost never checks a set on the river.

Cheers, makes sense, especially the bit about him not checking a set, I think if I had of figured that out, I might have pushed as that was what I was most worried about, and the check basically rules it out...

Finally some closure on the hand