Failed Driving Test

Vas_Guy

I failed my driving test yesterday, I got 1 grade 3 and 5 grade 2 in seperate headings.

I got the grade 3 for being in the wrong lane of a roundabout.

Is this a grade 3 fault, I was surprised since I went fine through about 5 other roundabouts, the first exit is at the 9 oclock position and the 2nd exit is at 2 oclock, I entered the left lane instead of the right to take the 2nd exit.

Did this mistake justify a grade 3 fault?

Wishbone Ash

Vas_Guy wrote:

the 2nd exit is at 2 oclock, I entered the left lane instead of the right to take the 2nd exit.

Did this mistake justify a grade 3 fault?

Hard luck Vas_Guy. As it's after "12 o'clock" you should have been in the right lane. I'm afraid it does justify a Grade 3 fault. Apply again straight away. Most people who fail first time pass the second time.

EWheelChair

If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane. I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane, or don't indicate coming on, or getting off.

But mistakes happen, sorry to hear about your fail

kippy

If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane. I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane, or don't indicate coming on, or getting off.

What if its on a dual carriage way, first exit is one lane, second exit is two laned?
Surely if there are two lanes coming in and there are two lanes at 12 o clock its okay to be in either lane going onto the roundabout.
I dont believe you HAVE to be on the inside lane if the road markings say otherwise either.

Unluck with the test, apply again, you should be okay next time.
Kippy

elvis2002

It seems in Dublin everyone goes into left lane to take an exit at 12 o' clock.

Wishbone Ash

EWheelChair wrote:

If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane

"Inside lane" is a confusing term. On a dual carriageway many people refer to the left lane as the "inside lane" but on a roundabout, it would have to be the opposite, i.e. the lane nearest the centre.

Would it not be more appropriate to use left, centre, right? It is perfectly legal to enter a standard NSEW roundabout in the left lane to take the second exit (unless otherwise indicated).

EWheelChair wrote:

I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane

That a great attitude to have in life. :rolleyes:

EWheelChair wrote:

or don't indicate coming on

If a motorist is taking the second exit on a standarn NSEW roundabout,they should not indicate entering the roundabout.

Ham'nd'egger

No disrespect to s/he who posted, but it is little point saying it in here unless we knew what you did, where it was etc etc. The driving testers will begin your roundabout examination from the time you approach it to when you have left it and finished your signalling for same, so you may have erred somewhere and not be aware of it. You are expected to make your way inwards (towards the circle) if you are not using the first exit and outwards when you are leaving it, so as to free the flow for cars who are leaving and entering the roundabout with safety. In the case of mini roundabouts, you will be marked down on crossing the white on the road, so possibly that could have happened to you.

As a matter of interest, what where the grade twos for?

lostinsuperfunk

OP, I think you were a bit unlucky to have been given a grade 3 for the roundabout. At risk of rehashing old conversations on boards, the new draft Rules of the Road blatantly contradict themselves on this point:

If leaving by the second exit, approach and enter the roundabout on the left hand lane...

If leaving by any exit after the 12 o'clock position, approach and enter the
roundabout in the right hand lane...

(my bold)

So, if the second exit is after the 12 o'clock position, which is it? Left lane or right lane? Both, according to the above.

Agree with Wishbone Ash, "inside" and "outside" are confusing terms when referring to road lanes. I also think the use of clock positions is a bit silly.

godtabh

I just did my test and one of the things my driver instructor kept saying was that your meant to keep to the left the whole time. If you exit is after 12 you indicate move into the right hand lane (if there is one) or postion your self to the right hand side of the roundabout junction.

Idbatterim

hard luck! it really is patetic and over the top, a fail a fail for not being in the right lane at the roundabout, if it was constant maybe but it was once after you had performed it correctly many times. If you only got 5 grade twos first time you are obviously a decent driver. would a grade two have not sufficed? why not correct you on it after the test? its hardly that serious, if you knew you were doing something wrong you would correct it! funny i have never seen anyone pulled over for being in the wrong lane at a roundabout! and now what? another few month wait, more fees, higher insurance? it really is a lottery, by improving your driving you increase chance of passing but the luck and tester factor are huge parts in it! answer me this, those of you who support the crooked system, second time round a friend passed the test despite hitting the curb, another mate fails over it?! there can be no defence for it... where is their accountability? this rubbish would never be tolerated anywhere else! my bro realised what rubbish it was, only went for one pre testhat was it, he passed it first time and still thinks it such a joke because of the amount nonsense hes heard about it! i have so many examples first hand aswell, but id be writing till tommorow! you know you can appeal the decision, from what i read if enough complaints, or appeals are made towards one tester they are investigated, see how much they take the piss whe their circumstance can be badly affected and not yours! they have no intention of clearing the backlog, just looking after themselves, which everyone does to an extent but in my opinion hey really take it too far, pity we dont have someone with a spine in government to protect the majoity and not the tiny minority! dont rely on bertie to upset the apple cart, atleast brenna in transport had ideas and was striaght, the problem with this in Ireland? you upset the cossie little club and get sent packing to a minor position! Pittie bertie can practice what he preaches! sorry bout the rant, but the test is plain and simple a sham!

Capt'n Midnight

Idbatterim wrote:

sorry bout the rant, but the test is plain and simple a sham!

yip it's a scam
just like traffic enforcement and driver training

any other developed country would have a real test
it costs the government money because the fee doesn't cover the test, so if they wanted to make money they would increase the fee and zip through the back log, ( €100 x 400,000 = enough to buy one govt jet or a load of e-voting machines. )

godtabh

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

yip it's a scam
just like traffic enforcement and driver training

What do they do in other countrues?

How does our test compare to others?

Supercell

Vas_Guy wrote:

I failed my driving test yesterday, I got 1 grade 3 and 5 grade 2 in seperate headings.

I got the grade 3 for being in the wrong lane of a roundabout.

Is this a grade 3 fault, I was surprised since I went fine through about 5 other roundabouts, the first exit is at the 9 oclock position and the 2nd exit is at 2 oclock, I entered the left lane instead of the right to take the 2nd exit.

Did this mistake justify a grade 3 fault?

A grade three is a big mistake that puts other pedestrians or drivers at risk.
Being in the wrong lane to make it a grade three would be probably moving into another drivers path and forcing them to take evasive action..i.e . brake or swerve (even if this is in slow motion this is a grade three). if you got a grade three and don't even know why is more than enough reason for you to be failed - you are a danger on the road.

If you got a grade three, get more lessons.

Idbatterim

do not get more lessons! you know the correct procedure now! oh actually yeah it might be a good idea pay E33 to be told you have to take the inside lane! what gets to me is every instructor tell you something different, i have had 3 different ones and multiple times they gave conflicting answers! why isnt there a simple book of guidelines, no grey areas, its either right or its wrong, every instructor seems to have a different opinion on what is and isnt acceptable. There should be a book and code of procedures simple as that, no messing around, excuses etc!

mal1

EWheelChair wrote:

If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane. I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane, or don't indicate coming on, or getting off.

But mistakes happen, sorry to hear about your fail

That is incorrect. If you are going straight ahead (12 o clock) or anything before then you take the left hand lane. Anything after straight ahead (12 o clock) and you take the right hand lane. The number of exits (i.e. the first or second exit exit) doesn't really matter unless the markings on the road tell you otherwise

Capt'n Midnight

kearnsr wrote:

What do they do in other countrues?

How does our test compare to others?

invariably ,
longer - so they get a better idea of the style you would revert to
faster - how long (in seconds) do you spend above 50kpm on an Irish test ? , but if you pass you are allowed to do 120kph
scope - in other countries you have to do parallel parking, emergency stops, night driving , tests may have parts taken on different days , many continental countries have driving schools where you do a course and they grade you over three weeks instead of half an hour.

In the UK Instructors have to have three years experiance, and be over 25, if they charge money they have passed a separate test. Here they don't even need a driving license.

Blazer

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Hard luck Vas_Guy. As it's after "12 o'clock" you should have been in the right lane. I'm afraid it does justify a Grade 3 fault. Apply again straight away. Most people who fail first time pass the second time.

or in my case the third time round:D

Idbatterim

Thanks for that post captain midnight. you should see the facilities they have in germany, they have a road circuit in the test facilities, where you can practice everything you need to know for the test, but you know what im sure you guys who are defending the current set up are right, im sure the irish system embarasses alot of other 1st world countires! no.1!

corktina

elvis2002 wrote:

It seems in Dublin everyone goes into left lane to take an exit at 12 o' clock.

On the M50 you enter at 8 O'clock and leave at twenty past eleven.....

Capt'n Midnight

corktina wrote:

On the M50 you enter at 8 O'clock and leave at twenty past eleven.....

shltter

EWheelChair wrote:

If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane. I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane, or don't indicate coming on, or getting off.

But mistakes happen, sorry to hear about your fail

Thats wrong unless the road is marked otherwise it is perfectly fine to use the left lane for the first or second exit.

The right hand lane can be used for the second exit also and for the third or subsequent exits unless the road markings indicate differently.

Perhaps you should familarise yourself with the rules of the road before spouting your hatred for other people who are unfamiliar with them.

shltter

elvis2002 wrote:

It seems in Dublin everyone goes into left lane to take an exit at 12 o' clock.

Which is perfectly legal and acceptable unless the road markings state differently

cast_iron

lostinsuperfunk wrote:

OP, I think you were a bit unlucky to have been given a grade 3 for the roundabout. At risk of rehashing old conversations on boards, the new draft Rules of the Road [/URL] blatantly contradict themselves on this point:
Quote:
If leaving by the second exit, approach and enter the roundabout on the left hand lane...

If leaving by any exit after the 12 o'clock position, approach and enter the
roundabout in the right hand lane...
(my bold)

So, if the second exit is after the 12 o'clock position, which is it? Left lane or right lane? Both, according to the above.

The second statement says any exit after 12 o clock then use right hand lane. It clearly would over rule the 1st statement in said case. You don't just read the 1st rule and take it as God, you take them both on board and apply whichever is most correct at the time.

Where it gets a little crazy is where the 1st exit is after 12 o clock! Makes a mockery of the rule then. (There are examples around the place.)

mal1

elvis2002 wrote:

It seems in Dublin everyone goes into left lane to take an exit at 12 o' clock.

Are you giving out, because this is the correct thing to do. Seems that alot of people are giving out about others who actually are driving correctly. If you leaving at the 12 o clock exit then you must be in the left hand lane unless there are markings saying that you can take the right hand lane.

Alun

It would help a hell of a lot if everyone in Ireland could at least grasp the simple rule of indicating left at the exit before the one they turn off at. That's the most important one in my book, the others, although certainly helpful to other drivers, I could possibly live without. People who think it actually makes sense to leave a roundabout while indicating right should be given an immediate 1 year driving ban and be subjected to a psychological test IMO.

Let's face it, however you formulate the rules, someone, somewhere is bound to come up with some weird roundabout design that makes a mockery of them, like a roundabout with 12 exits, or one with 3 exits, all past 3 o'clock, or something else equally stupid. In those cases, making a distinction between the first three exits as far as indicating when entering the roundabout, does indeed seem a little contrived, and as long as you signal before the one you're leaving at then all's fine.

Lane usage is another thing altogether, and if the people here who design these 'non-standard' roundabouts could only get it into their heads that they should provide lane markings in such cases, we'd all be a lot better off too.

Alun

mal1 wrote:

Are you giving out, because this is the correct thing to do. Seems that alot of people are giving out about others who actually are driving correctly. If you leaving at the 12 o clock exit then you must be in the left hand lane unless there are markings saying that you can take the right hand lane.

True, but here there are many instances where it's perfectly safe and normal to do this where there are no road markings to be seen. The N11/M11 roundabout at Loughlinstown is a prime example of this.

mal1

Alun wrote:

True, but here there are many instances where it's perfectly safe and normal to do this where there are no road markings to be seen. The N11/M11 roundabout at Loughlinstown is a prime example of this.

I agree but in my opinion it is still technically a violation of the rules of the road. My point is that some people are actually saying that you should be in the right hand lane. This is wrong.

Alun

mal1 wrote:

I agree but in my opinion it is still technically a violation of the rules of the road. My point is that some people are actually saying that you should be in the right hand lane. This is wrong.

It is technically, but in practice everyone does it, and in this case, rightly so in my opinion. It's a roundabout with 4 exits, the two "mainline" ones being a motorway on one side and a dual carriageway on the other, and probably 99% of the traffic on it taking this route. It would be completely unreasonable to expect all the traffic coming to the end of the M11, say, to all cram into the left hand lane, cross the roundabout in single file and then resume two-lane driving on the N11 on the other side. The traffic jams in the morning are bad enough as it is.

What's missing are a handful of painted white arrows to make the practice "book legal", that's all.

Wishbone Ash

mal1 wrote:

My point is that some people are actually saying that you should be in the right hand lane. This is wrong.

For what it's worth mal1:

Journal of Advanced Motoring

Roundabouts

(Quote)

"If you plan to go straight across, it is preferable to keep to the left on your approach and through the roundabout, signalling a left turn after passing the exit before the one you want to take. Good abservation will bring you into the left lane in good time but if traffic is slow moving you might be able to make better progress in the right hand lane."


Rules of the Road

(Quote)

Travelling straight ahead (on a roundabout):

"Stay in the left lane, but do not indicate left until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken line." (picture above quote with broken line in right hand lane).

mal 1 wrote:

Seems that alot of people are giving out about others who actually are driving correctly.

Yourself included mal 1.

Alun

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Travelling straight ahead (on a roundabout):

"Stay in the left lane, but do not indicate left until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken line." (picture above quote with broken line in right hand lane).

The problem is that in the absence of any road markings it's often difficult to tell "where conditions dictate otherwise" unless you happen to know the road, and know, for example, that the exit you wish to take also has two lanes. If in doubt, of course, you should always take the left lane, but I always feel a bit pissed off if I find when exiting that I've had to filter into the left lane unnecessarily because of the lack of a bit of white paint.

mal1

Wishbone Ash wrote:

For what it's worth mal1:

Journal of Advanced Motoring

Roundabouts

(Quote)

"If you plan to go straight across, it is preferable to keep to the left on your approach and through the roundabout, signalling a left turn after passing the exit before the one you want to take. Good abservation will bring you into the left lane in good time but if traffic is slow moving you might be able to make better progress in the right hand lane."


Rules of the Road

(Quote)

Travelling straight ahead (on a roundabout):

"Stay in the left lane, but do not indicate left until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken line." (picture above quote with broken line in right hand lane).


Yourself included mal 1.

Read my first quote, i said that some people say that you must be in the right hand lane. I said that is worng. Only go into the right hand lane if the 'conditions dictate otherwise' i.e. if the markings on the road allow you to. I have done the advance driving course and i have passed. I did if through work and a colleague of mine failed for taking the right hand lane when going straight ahead. Advanced driving is has all to do with safe and sensible driving so of course someone will take the right hand lane if the left hand is moving slowly, whether your on or off the roundabout. Do we want to argue about every rule of the road i.e. overtaking when the other lane is moving slower than yours

Wishbone Ash

mal1 wrote:

i said that some people say that you must be in the right hand lane.

Who said you must be in the right hand lane? I haven't been able to find the quote. Any chance that you would quote it for me? (I'm not being smart - I genuinely can't find it. Has it been edited?)

mal1

Originally Posted by EWheelChair
If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane. I personally hate people on round abouts who are in the wrong lane, or don't indicate coming on, or getting off.

The first exit is usual before the 12 0 clock position so i'm taking this as saying that you should be in the right hand lane to go straight ahead. I Know you can easily pick holes in my observation and do so if you want.

Originally Posted by elvis2002
It seems in Dublin everyone goes into left lane to take an exit at 12 o' clock.

My first reply to this quote asked if elvis was implying that it is wrong to be in the left hand lane. Come on a little common sense.....It's not clever to use the right hand lane at a round about to overtake or when there is only one lane at the exit at the 12 o'clock position. You will find yourself competing with others from the left hand lane.

Finally, remember that the advanced driving journal is written for the rules of the road in Britain and hence don't always apply to the Irish rules.

Wishbone Ash

mal1 wrote:

Originally Posted by EWheelChair
If you're not taking the first exit you HAVE to take the inside lane.

Sorry mal 1, I see what you mean. I missed it because I was looking for 'right' instead of 'inside'.

1huge1

sorry to hear you failed
i passed my theory test yesterday with 37/40
but im sure thats so simple compared to the driving test
good luck next time

MrPudding

Idbatterim wrote:

There should be a book and code of procedures simple as that, no messing around, excuses etc!

What a good idea. So simple yet so good. The governement should get some experts together and formulate a load of procedures that, when taken togther show us how to drive on the road.

Driving instructors could then take these procedures and use them like a guide to teach their students. You know, it is crazy enough to actually work.

What would we call it....hmmmm. I suppose we could call it "Procedures of the road." That would do it. Hold on a minute.....how about this? Why not put other stuff in to too? Stuff like what signs mean, speed limits and stuff like that? Sort of the rules that you follow when driving. Yes, I think that is it.

We will call it "The rules and procedures you must following when you are driving on the road." Brilliant. No, hold on, that is too long. "The rules and procedures of the road." Naw, still too long. Oh oh, how about "The Rules of the Road."

What do you think guys? Could it work? I am going to send a mail to my TD now.

MrP

steinbock

Alun wrote:

People who think it actually makes sense to leave a roundabout while indicating right should be given an immediate 1 year driving ban and be subjected to a psychological test IMO.

its bizarre how often this actually happens, i see it about two or three times a day driving around town !

its also not that uncommon to see people using the left hand lane turning right. you see this even on stanrard roundabouts, not just the some of the badly designed ones.