432 suicide V 399 road deaths

CK.1

Pity they don't put the same emphsis on depression/mental health/suicide as they do on road deaths. Also 80% of suicide deaths were men. You can bet it would be taken a lot more seriously if it was 80% women.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1005/suicide.html

432 deaths by suicide last year

05 October 2006 11:00

Figures from the National Office for Suicide Prevention show that there were 432 deaths by suicide last year.

Of these, over 80% were male suicides.

According to the report, the number of deaths by suicide has remained, what it describes as, 'relatively stable', over the last five years from a peak of 519 in 2001.

The figures, which are contained in the office's first annual report, show men under the age of 35 accounted for around 40% of all suicide deaths in 2005.

It says the number of people going to A&E departments with self-harm injuries is around 11,000 every year.

Puteq

Yeah those are pretty sad statistics allright. why do you think it would be taken more seriously if it was mostly women?

CK.1

Puteq wrote:

Yeah those are pretty sad statistics allright. why do you think it would be taken more seriously if it was mostly women?

In the same way women's health is taken more seriously. There is a screening program for breast cancer but there is no equivalent program for prostate or testicular cancer in men.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it's hardly surprising there's going to be more time and effort devoted to womens breasts as opposed to a man's nether regions.

Zombrex

CK.1 wrote:

In the same way women's health is taken more seriously. There is a screening program for breast cancer but there is no equivalent program for prostate or testicular cancer in men.

That is simply because men don't campaign enough for men issues, because it is seen as a sign of being complainy and girly

My grandfather sat for 5 years with diebties until they had to chop his leg off. When asked why he didn't go to a doctor the response was "I didn't want to cause a fuss"

There is a fundamental bad attitute with men in Ireland towards asking for help, and it is seen in other men as inapproprate to disturb a man unless he asks for help (none of the rest of my family made my grandfather go to see a doctor, the excuse was along the lines of it would be disrespectful). Men view the physical or mental health issues of other men as being none of their busness and they don't want to get involved.

I think this attitude is also the major problem with the alarming suicide rates in Ireland. Men in Ireland (you don't find this as bad in other places) don't go looking for help as to not be seen as weak or whinny, and men feel uncomfortable to go to another man who they feel might have a problem.

If anyone wants to test this theory start crying in front of your mates. See what happens.

We really need to try and change this general attitute in men in Ireland, but I feel it is so entrenched in our culture that this will be an up hill struggle.

Sleepy

Puteq wrote:

Yeah those are pretty sad statistics allright. why do you think it would be taken more seriously if it was mostly women?

Because feminism doesn't have any real male counterpart.

Raekwon

That is a sad very statistic Ireland seems to have had a problem with suicide for awhile now, especially with young men. I wonder what studies into this have uncovered..................or are their even studies that have taken place???

Beruthiel

CK.1 wrote:

Pity they don't put the same emphsis on depression/mental health/suicide as they do on road deaths. Also 80% of suicide deaths were men. You can bet it would be taken a lot more seriously if it was 80% women.

And who's fault is it if women voice their opinions and men don't?
80% is a huge percentage, time for men to do something about this.

As for the amount of deaths, I think it's a total disgrace that you will never see an add for this on television and yet every night there is something on to do with driving. I just don't get that. We need a programme set up to highlight this in the same way as we do for driving.

CK.1

Beruthiel wrote:

And who's fault is it if women voice their opinions and men don't?
80% is a huge percentage, time for men to do something about this.

Yup gotta agree with you there, not trying to blame women or anything. Men do need to kick up more of a fuss.

Some very good points by Wicknight

gurramok

Raekwon wrote:

That is a sad very statistic Ireland seems to have had a problem with suicide for awhile now, especially with young men. I wonder what studies into this have uncovered..................or are their even studies that have taken place???

Some young(under 35) suicides i know of in my local area are due to drug abuse.

Strange that this is not mentioned in the media and that there are no hard stats as to why people take their lives whether its drug abuse, depression, financial problems etc

Aoife-FM104

Ah come on us women are treated better!! You always see it, pretty girl dies it'll make the main story on the news. Lads dies all the time but you headly ever hear about it!!

fly_agaric

Beruthiel wrote:

As for the amount of deaths, I think it's a total disgrace that you will never see an add for this on television and yet every night there is something on to do with driving. I just don't get that.

Don't you think maybe even more people would be killing themselves if the media gave it more attention? Seems to me it gets more than enough as it is.

A load of maudlin adverts on the box about suicide might be enough to drive me over the edge...:rolleyes:

On suicide:

In the past we were told that we'd spend eternity in the fires of hell with Satan if we committed suicide. Maybe that put a few people off? Obviously, we can't go back to that now though.
The fact that there wasn't as much money around for píssing away on drinking oneself into a state of depression must be a factor also. So tackling the Irish problem with alcohol might help here.

Wicknight wrote:

Men in Ireland (you don't find this as bad in other places) don't go looking for help as to not be seen as weak or whinny

Could you give some examples of these other places which show up how defective Irish men are?

CK.1

fly_agaric wrote:

Don't you think maybe even more people would be killing themselves if the media gave it more attention? Seems to me it gets more than enough as it is.

A load of maudlin adverts on the box about suicide might be enough to drive me over the edge...:rolleyes:

TV ads are not how they should be dealing with it. The government needs to invest money in proper medical treatment for people suffering with depression. I know someone who attempted suicide. This person was admitted to St James with severe depression. The ward they were in was for treating people with depression and to be honest the whole place was a joke. The ward was so depressing and run down. The treatment was minimal. When discharged the aftercare was a joke, a 20 minute appointment every 2 months or so with a different doctor each time who was not familiar with the case.

Raekwon

Wicknight wrote:

There is a fundamental bad attitute with men in Ireland towards asking for help..........................edit.............................I think this attitude is also the major problem with the alarming suicide rates in Ireland. Men in Ireland (you don't find this as bad in other places)

I think men in Ireland are more capable of asking for help or showing their true emotions then say men from Eastern Europe for example. In places like Hungary, Lithuania & the Baltic States they have a huge problem with suicide, mainly with men between the ages of 18 - 35. In Lithuania in particular suicide has doubled over the last 10 years and now it is considered as a national emergency. They have a small population of 3.7million and they record approximately 30 suicides per week, that is truly epidemic proportions!

I think from an Irish perspective, prevention of suicide, particularly for young men, should be seriously looked at.

Raekwon

gurramok wrote:

Some young (under 35) suicides i know of in my local area are due to drug abuse

But there is a huge difference between a young drug abuser dying of an overdose then a *normal young man hanging himself or cutting his wrists.

*By normal I mean, a non drug user with a job etc., who unfortunatly happens to suffer from depression.

fly_agaric

CK.1 wrote:

TV ads are not how they should be dealing with it.

That was what I was getting at. Raising awareness about a suicide problem through the media (ala dangerous driving) may not be a good idea.

CK.1 wrote:

The treatment was minimal. When discharged the aftercare was a joke

The great Irish health system strikes again!
Often it seems they can't get things right for people who badly want to live either so no surprises there.

galactus

Its a very sad statistic: as with road deaths, I'm sure we've all been affected by suicide.

CK.1 makes the point that the root cause is the state of the Health Services.

What can be done? These are just some ideas, feel free to (constructively) criticise.

1 - Vote (not for the present bunch probably

2- Change (directly elected head of HSE?)

3 - Get involved: you don't need to go so far as joining a political party. (Did anyone see that lady on the Late Late from www.irishpatients.ie?)

4 - The media have achieved a lot with raising awareness of road deaths.

5 The public: talk about it. WTF is mental health a taboo? It reminds me of
when i was a kid and was told to shut it whenever I asked what sectarian/Black & Tans etc. meant

b3t4

"The WHO document Highlights on Health in Ireland (3), published in 1998, reported that women in this country are still more likely to attempt suicide than men. However it would appear that men are more likely to succeed in taking their own lives, as the rate for men committing suicide in Ireland is given as 18 per 100,000 population, five times the rate for women, which was found to be 3.6 per 100,000 population. The male suicide rate in this country has been rising continuously since the early 1970s, with an increase of 53% since 1980, and a particularly marked increase among young males aged 15-34. The rate of suicide in Ireland among men has now reached the EU average. The suicide rate for Irish women is one of the lowest in western Europe and has been falling since 1980." http://www.whc.ie/publications/reports_parasuicide.html

It appears women attempt suicide more but men are more successful. So this is not one genders issue. This is both genders issue. I searched and searched but could not find a recent article I read indicating that the rate of suicide in women has tripled over the last years.

I often wonder how the government get away with so easily ignoring the issue of suicide and suicide attempts in our country. I suppose it comes from the society that has been developed. Suicide in this country is a very hush, hush issue. All this does is alienate those that need help. The more people talk about these things the more people can become aware that what they are feeling is depression and there are other solutions available to them.

I'm a member of those statistics. I attempted more times than I cared to count. One of these attempts ended up with me in hospital. My family have never spoken about it since I came out of hospital. It was hushed up and put under the carpet.

I'm a successful young women now with an excellent degree behind me and a good job and if I recount this to people in my life they generally begin to look at me shocked. I think people only associate suicide with what they think as crazy people. Even typing this I'm hoping that nobody that knows me is reading this. This says an awful lot about the society that's prevalent in Ireland.

People need to start seeing mental health issues as an illness.

I think re-education and support is necessary so as to reduce suicide rates in this country.

I agree that educational ad's would be helpful. The ad's should not however concentrate on suicide but should concentrate on helping people to identify that they have depression and should offer means for them to seek professional help. Also, ad's that educate people on what to do if they feel that someone they know is effected by depression.

For all those reading this, please make sure that all your friends are aware that they can come and talk to you if they ever have a problem. Don't ever presume that someone knows that they can come to you. Also if someone does come to you with a problem please advise and support them in seeking professional help as often the person's issues are beyond what you could help with.

A.

nesf

I wouldn't focus on our Health Service as the problem. That's just a popular cop-out these days. The problems here are at a level far closer to home.

galactus

b3t4 wrote:

(snip)
People need to start seeing mental health issues as an illness.
(/snip)

Despite what nesf says* mental health is an issue to hit the TDs with when they come knocking for votes. BTW, that was as brave a post as I've seen anywhere, thank you.



* Obviously the constant media attention to state of the Health Service is boring you nesf. What do you mean by "closer to home" anyway - that's very vague.

mike65

Should be pointed out a certain number of road deaths are almost certainly suicides so the figuers are actually worse than they look.

Mike.

Dutz

this is a major problem in the area im from - 15 lads aged 16-25 have killed themselves in the last year and a half. . .. it is a silent blight which needs to be brought to the attention of every individual in ireland.

Personally i have had 3 suicides in my family, my aunty and her brother and then my grandad from the opposite family. i think if people were made more aware of the issues and consequences of there actions they would try and go to counselling instead of just ending it all without really thinking of it

Sangre

I would imagine there is a greater focus on road deaths because there is a huge number of non-fatal injuries and the fact it is often someone else's fault another dies.

Of course, suicide is certainly an epidemic in the country. I think the media should stop reporting suicide as 'falling in front of a train'. Its seen something to be ashamed of, when clearly you should never be ashamed of a mental illness.

Sangre

Sangre wrote:

I would imagine there is a greater focus on road deaths because there is a huge number of non-fatal injuries and the fact it is often someone else's fault another dies.

Of course, suicide is certainly an epidemic in the country. I think the media should stop reporting suicide as 'falling in front of a train'. Its seen something to be ashamed of, when clearly you should never be ashamed of a mental illness.

Agreed 100%

cyrus the virus

Young Fine Gael has a Suicide Campaign. You sould read the webpage:

[url=http://www.yfg.ie/suicide.php]YFG Suicide Campaign[/url] wrote:

TALK

In the time it takes you to watch the first half of a football match, another Irish person will have attempted suicide. This is truly appalling.

The prevalence of suicide amongst young people is alarming and simply unacceptable. 1015 young people under-35 died by suicide in the five years between 1999 and 2003. These are the known cases, and the figure can be underestimated by 10%. Ireland has the second highest rate of suicide among young men in Europe. Suicides account for more deaths than our roads.

Since 1997, the Department of Health’s mental health budget has been reduced from 11% of overall spend to 6.9% in 2005. The National Task Force on Suicide’s recommendations have not been implemented and there is no national State helpline to assist those feeling suicidal.

YFG are calling for an advertisement campaign to address the stigma of depression; a national support service, including funds for voluntary organisations; a tracking and long term support service for those who present at A+E and/or GPs having attempted suicide and deliberate self harm; and an immediate increase in spending by the Department of Health on this issue.

YFG will also be distributing turquoise wrist bands to highlight the issue.

Young Fine Gael are proposing positive initiatives for the removal of the stigma and taboo that surrounds the area of mental ill health.

Please click on the link to our campaign document TALK

Please also read Gary McTernan:An Appreciation. (Please download). Gary was a very valued member of YFG and is dearly missed.

You will also find details on some help lines that young people who are feeling depressed can contact for expert advise.

And it goes on to give support phone numbers if anyone is interested, .

I can't belive the budget has been cut last year from 11% to 6.5% over 7 years.

BTW, this site has been up BEFORE the news report.

YFG has to Campaign more. It looks a lot better comeing from a age group 15-30. What they need is a good kick up the ass to get in going. They got the info and a good booklet but you don't hear of them.

de5p0i1er

It is a sad state of affairs when people try to bury the facts. I think it has something to do with opinion polls; the government don’t want you to think people are unhappy with the country so they hush up things like this and focus on thing like tribunals and the north claiming that’s what everyone want them to deal with.

Sorry if that sounds like a conspiracy theory or a rant.

nesf

galactus wrote:

Despite what nesf says* mental health is an issue to hit the TDs with when they come knocking for votes. BTW, that was as brave a post as I've seen anywhere, thank you.

I didn't say it wasn't a political issue. I said that I didn't think it was the health service that we should be focussing on in this. Essentially the stigma, attitude and lack of education regarding mental illness are the main issues in this. I do think that these are political issues but I wouldn't lump them in with the already bulging "health service problem" portfolio. Yes, politicians could make great progress in this but it's a very broad issue and that's where the traps lay. Just improving the health service does little if the level of understanding remains as it is now for example, but how exactly can we cleanse a deep set stigma and then educate people properly on the issue? It's not something that lends it to pre-election propoganda soundbites and it's not something that can be achieved quickly and cleanly.

galactus wrote:

Obviously the constant media attention to state of the Health Service is boring you nesf. What do you mean by "closer to home" anyway - that's very vague.

I don't find it boring, I just find the constant mindless complaining depressing because I haven't seen much, if any, policy proposals that might alieviate the situation and it's been turned into one of these government vs opposition political issues where people take positions depending on political leaning. We blame the government while ignoring the government's difficulties with pushing changes through the health service due to unions etc. People seem to think that just ploughing more money in will magically create a pool of trained people to fill new hospital buildings that would also be created at the flick of the fiscal wand. People also seem to demand the low tax regime yet have the public services (health service etc) of a much higher tax regime. I'd love to see progress on this issue but people just don't seem to grasp the issues at hand tbh. The opposition promising the same tax rates points towards their lack of interest in genuinely changing the status quo that has been more or less sucessful economically and the politicians here are just following the public's lead tbh.

The closer to home comment meant that it was a grassroots "common people" problem not some nebulous problem in the mysterious workings of the health service.

CK.1

mike65 wrote:

Should be pointed out a certain number of road deaths are almost certainly suicides so the figuers are actually worse than they look.

Mike.

Yeah, I think that is a very important point that is (conviently) overlooked and needs to be investigated.

kowloon

Figures probably dont take into account "accidental deaths" that were suicides, if theres any doubt its labelled accidental, like drowning etc.

As for the falling in front of a train,
Its better for the media to keep to the fact and not speculate on the motive.
There would be a lot of fallout if an accident was called a suicide, a lot of it due to societies attitude towards suicide.

I think possibly the higher death rate (not attempts) in men could be due to the fact that men dont seek help and the depression digs in too far.

Any campaign would need to be targeted properly, if it wasnt done right it could be completely ineffective, or worse.

Zulu

Beruthiel wrote:

80% is a huge percentage, time for men to do something about this.

Is this part of the problem though Beruthiel? It's our society. [ I don't want to turn this into the usual men/women debate but...] If one section has a problem, is it ok to sit back and until they speak out? I'd suggest that society needs to look out for itself as a whole. If a subsection of our society is having a serious problem and isn't coping with the problem, shouldn't we as fellow members of the society, champion the cause?

I'm not suggesting for a second that it's anyone fault, or that you feel otherwise.

pH

Breast cancer accounts for about 650 deaths in Ireland per year, more than road deaths.

I'm all for us stopping drunk and dangerous drivers killing others on our roads, but why should someone be punished for not wearing a seatbelt (for their own good) and yet women are free to choose whether or not they have a regular mammogram.

Surely any argument that could be made for me being a criminal for not wearing a seatbelt could equally be made for any woman who has not had a recent breast screening?

fly_agaric

pH wrote:

Breast cancer accounts for about 650 deaths in Ireland per year, more than road deaths.

I'm all for us stopping drunk and dangerous drivers killing others on our roads, but why should someone be punished for not wearing a seatbelt (for their own good) and yet women are free to choose whether or not they have a regular mammogram.

Surely any argument that could be made for me being a criminal for not wearing a seatbelt could equally be made for any woman who has not had a recent breast screening?

Interesting argument.:)
Only thing is, while seatbelts are fitted as standard to every crappy little jalopey in the country, there isn't a free nationwide brestscreening program yet AFAIK.
Also, in fairness, pulling a belt over your chest is still easier than going to a doctor to get some of your intimates checked.

Sleepy

Never mind the fact that by not wearing a seatbelt you can put other's lives at risk, particularly if you're in the back seat...

Rebeller

gurramok wrote:

Strange that this is not mentioned in the media and that there are no hard stats as to why people take their lives whether its drug abuse, depression, financial problems etc

There is no single answer as to why people take their own lives. It will never be possible to categorise the reasons for suicide as only the person who takes the fatal decision to end their own life can really know the real reasons.

Personally, I feel that the changing role of men in society is definitely a factor. What is interesting is that any time issues that particularly affect men are highlighted (suicide, greater likelihood of being the victom of violent assault) certain women feel it is important to prevent any possiblility of men being seen as victims. These women seem to believe that the role of victimhood can only be played by the female gender.

Any suggestion that particularly male issues should be addressed with the same level of concern as that, rightly, shown for issues affecting women is met with the usual ridicule:

1) The male gender is inherently flawed; men should be conditioned to become more like women so that all society's problems can be solved:
2) It is men's own fault alone for the issues facing them as they just don't complain enough:
3) Ah sure, men have a great life. Why do they need help when women are still suffering from discrimination and inequality?

While women have gained greater sense of self and identity through the struggles of the feminist movement, men's traditional roles in society have often been diminished and are now often denigrated. Girls better performance in the education system is often talked about in a triumphalist tone by certain commentators. You can almost spot a hint of glee as they list the ever increasing failures of male students.

However, it should perhaps be pointed out that educationalists believe that boys and girls learn in different ways. Our education system is now very exam orientated with heavy study being the primary guarantee of educational success. Girls tend to excel in this aspect of learning whereas the male brain tends to learn more easily in a more hands-on, practical environment. Our education system is tilted more in favour of the female learning processes with the result that boys do not perform as well as girls.

This is perhaps simplifying things a bit too much. However, tied in with this aspect of the system is the presence of a hardcore group of fanatics within the dept of ed who belive that gender is a purely learned trait and that there are no essential differences between male and female at birth (besides the obvious of course:D ) This group seems to believe that nurture rather than nature is what leads to distinctly male and female sociological characteristics.

Working from this premise they introduced "gender studies" as part of the second level curriculum with the purpose of reconditioning boys to be........more like girls. I can imagine being 15 and hearing that my sense of male identity is an artificial construct and I need to just start acting lke a girl to become a happier human being!! No wonder many men feel isolated and confused. No wonder some men sadly feel that suicide is the only solution.

True equality will only ever come through total acceptance of difference. There are many aspects of both the female and male genders that are positive, just as there are certain negative points.

Telling men that they should become more like women and "talk about their feelings more" is not going to reduce suicide and lead to greater societal and emotional stability. There is a belief that women are seen as better able to deal with emotional instability and trauma as they are more willing to "express their feelings" and talk to a friend about their problems. Men suffer because they keep it all inside.

You could take the view that women's "tell all" attitude is simply a form of stress relief. The old adage " a problem shared is a problem halved" has relevance here. Women are better able to offload their emotions on a willing listener which results in a certain amount of stress relief. Men are often seen as good listeners is this regard.

However, many women are unable to act as receivers themselves and will often be unsure of how to act when presented with a man who wishes to truly express his innermost fears and worries.

Essentially what I am saying is that both genders need to recognise that there are no winners in a competiton to see who is better deserving of the mantle of victim