Is irish provisional licence recognised in N. Ireland?

redtom

Drivin up to Donegal this weekend with a friend of mine (fully licenced) - I can either go through North or via Sligo (leavin from Dublin) - am I allowed to drive on Northern Ireland roads with my Irish provisional licence?

cormie

Afraid not! You're friend will be able to though if he's insured to drive other cars under his policy:)

kevinmcc

I know people who drive through the north on irish provisional and when stopped at police checkpoints had no trouble.

cormie

I don't know how strict the police up there are but it's deffo considered another country by insurance companies.

even though I say deffo, I'm still open to correction:)

netwhizkid

To the OP are you on your first or second Provisional?? Because if you are on your second you can drive without a fully licensed driver in the Republic anyway, not sure about the North, anyway the North is part of Ireland and if stopped by the PSNI tell them you don't recognize them as the legitimate police force and tell them get bent.

cormie

haha, they'd definitely let you away with it then:D

It wont make a difference if you are on your first or 2nd provisional up there either afaik. Full license or nothing for driving "abroad" I think

el tel

netwhizkid wrote:

To the OP are you on your first or second Provisional?? Because if you are on your second you can drive without a fully licensed driver in the Republic anyway, not sure about the North, anyway the North is part of Ireland and if stopped by the PSNI tell them you don't recognize them as the legitimate police force and tell them get bent.

I like the sentiment there on the legitimacy of the Northern 'Statelet' but I suspect that saying that would get the OP a few hours in a barracks and his car thoroughly 'inspected'.

As far as the provisional licence goes - not even Northerners are allowed to drive on a provisional licence, unless they are being given a driving lesson by a person aged 21 or over, with a full UK license held for over 3 years and in a car that is fully insured for the learner. And you'll need 'L' plates and likely also a car that is UK registered. In all, I'd say your best bet is to go via Sligo and enjoy the Atlantic views...

franksm

netwhizkid wrote:

anyway the North is part of Ireland and if stopped by the PSNI tell them you don't recognize them as the legitimate police force and tell them get bent.

LOL !

Seriously tho, I don't think your insurance covers you unless you arrange for it specifically. That's what I had to do with my insurance 'cos I'm on both sides of the border quite often - had to pay about 20% extra for it too (for the year)

Plus yer man El Tel's right, learner drives must have L-plates and an accompanying passenger with a full license otherwise the insurance is invalid anyway.

cormie

franksm wrote:

I don't think your insurance covers you unless you arrange for it specifically. That's what I had to do with my insurance 'cos I'm on both sides of the border quite often - had to pay about 20% extra for it too (for the year)

This wont work if you're on provisional just to point out:)

redtom

Thanks for the informative replies....

Looks like Sligo then so - and an extra hour and a half on my journey time...

Irish Salfordia

Definitely not recognised legally, the same way as a northern or U.K. provisional is not legally recognised here.

silver campaign

Nothin wrong with the sligo route,
Dublin to sligo road is great at the moment and now a lot
of towns from sligo - donegal are bypassed.

Wishbone Ash

Gentlemen, I'm open to correction but I would think that a valid provisional driving licence issued in the ROI is accepted in NI. While the regulations quoted below refer to foreign licences used here, do they not have reciprocal agreements within the EU.

From Road Traffic (Licencing of Drivers) Regulations 1999

(7) The Minister may be order declare a State to be a recognised State for the purposes of these Regulations and in these Regulations the expression "recognised driving licence" means a licence to drive a vehicle (not being a licence issued to a person to enable that person to learn to drive) issued by the competent authority of a Member State, other than Ireland, of the European Communities or of the European Economnic Area or of any other State declared by the Minister under this sub-article to be a recognised State.

(8) (a) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (c) of this sub-article, a person who holds a driving licence issued by the competent authority of a Member State, other than Ireland, of the European Communities or of the European Economic Area may drive in a public place any vehicle in a category in respect of which the licence has been granted for the period for which such licence has effect.

(b) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (a) and (c) of this sub-article, upon taking up normal residence in the State, a person who holds a recognised driving licence issued by a competent authority of a State other than a Member State of the European Communities or of the European Economic Area may drive in a public place any vehicle which such person is licensed by such licence to drive until the expiry of—

(i) the period for which such licence has effect, or
(ii) one year from the date of taking up such residence,
whichever first occurs.

(c) Paragraphs (a) and (b) of this sub-article shall only apply in respect of licences for categories as set out in column 1 of the Table in article 5 of these Regulations, other than categories M and W, and their equivalences, as may be laid down by the Minister from time to time.

(9) Notwithstanding sub-articles (7) and (8) of this article, the Minister may be order declare that driving licences issued by the competent authority of a Member State, other than Ireland, of the European Communities or of the European Economic Area which contain entitlement in respect of designated categories other than those set out in column 1 of the Table in article 5 of these Regulations shall entitle their holders to drive in a public place any vehicle in such designated categories for the period for which such entitlement has effect.

Stark

I don't speak legalese, but I think this is the line that makes provisionals invalid even in other EU countries:

and in these Regulations the expression "recognised driving licence" means a licence to drive a vehicle (not being a licence issued to a person to enable that person to learn to drive)

Wishbone Ash

Stark wrote:

I don't speak legalese, but I think this is the line that makes provisionals invalid even in other EU countries:

Point taken Stark. There used to be a special case for Ireland AFAIK. I recall the term "Island of Ireland" being used regarding licences before the general EU agreements came into place. Many insurance companies also use it to describe where they cover.

White Van Man

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm open to correction but I would think that a valid provisional driving licence issued in the ROI is accepted in NI. While the regulations quoted below refer to foreign licences used here, do they not have reciprocal agreements within the EU.

A licence is what you get after you pass your test. As Stark correctly pointed out the provisional has no value in any country other than the one it was issued in. You could argue the toss as to whether the North was part of "Ireland" as regards legislation, but I don't think any cop in the North is gonna care what the law-makers in Dublin say about driving up there.

In the UK, someone caught driving on their own with a provisional licence is considered to be driving without a licence.

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm open to correction but I would think that a valid provisional driving licence issued in the ROI is accepted in NI. While the regulations quoted below refer to foreign licences used here, do they not have reciprocal agreements within the EU.

If you are talking about NI then you should probably look to the regulations there. Most countries to not allow the absolute fcuking madness that is unaccompanied provo drivers. In this case NI falls into the "most countrys" catagory.

DVLNI wrote:

Visitors

If you hold a valid Community licence and you are visiting Northern Ireland, you can drive any vehicle for as long as your licence remains valid. The appropriate full entitlement for the vehicle you wish to drive must be shown on your licence.

The highlighting is mine.


Here is the link:

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/drivers/ec_licences.htm

So in response to the OP's question. No you can't legally drive in NI on an Irish provisional.

MrP

MrPudding

White Van Man wrote:

In the UK, someone caught driving on their own with a provisional licence is considered to be driving without a licence.

And without insurance and possibly tax.

MrP

Wishbone Ash

White Van Man wrote:

A licence is what you get after you pass your test. As Stark correctly pointed out the provisional has no value in any country other than the one it was issued in. You could argue the toss as to whether the North was part of "Ireland" as regards legislation, but I don't think any cop in the North is gonna care what the law-makers in Dublin say about driving up there.

In the UK, someone caught driving on their own with a provisional licence is considered to be driving without a licence.

On the front of a provisional licence it states:

"This is a learner licence issued to enable the licensee to learn to drive and is not valid outside Ireland"

I have always taken this to mean outside the island of Ireland, i.e. not valid in Great Britain but valid in Northern Ireland. Otherwise they would have said "outside the Republic of Ireland".

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote:

On the front of a provisional licence it states:

"This is a learner licence issued to enable the licensee to learn to drive and is not valid outside Ireland"

I have always taken this to mean outside the island of Ireland, i.e. not valid in Great Britain but valid in Northern Ireland. Otherwise they would have said "outside the Republic of Ireland".

Why on God's green earth would an Irish provisional License be accepted in part of the UK? Besides, I have already posted the relevent information from the DVLNI, or did you miss that?

MrP

White Van Man

Wishbone Ash wrote:

On the front of a provisional licence it states:

"This is a learner licence issued to enable the licensee to learn to drive and is not valid outside Ireland"

I have always taken this to mean outside the island of Ireland, i.e. not valid in Great Britain but valid in Northern Ireland. Otherwise they would have said "outside the Republic of Ireland".

You can argue the semantics all day long, but it's as simple as this:

In the North, aka the UK, aka the United Kingdom Of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, provisional drivers must be accompanied at all times by someone with a full UK licence. Your provisional has no value in the eyes of a PSNI cop. That piece of paper you got from your local county council so you could learn to drive doesn't grant you special privilege to drive on her majesty's highways in the North whatever your interpretation of the word "Ireland"

Wishbone Ash

White Van Man wrote:

provisional drivers must be accompanied at all times by someone with a full UK licence

The Highway Code for Northern Ireland states that the accompanied driver must be "at least 21 years old who holds a full EC/EEA licence for that type of car and has held one for at least 3 years". (Law MV(DL)R Reg 12).

There is no reference to a specific UK licence.

White Van Man wrote:

Your provisional has no value in the eyes of a PSNI cop. That piece of paper you got from your local county council so you could learn to drive doesn't grant you special privilege to drive on her majesty's highways in the North whatever your interpretation of the word "Ireland"

Just to clarify lads, I'm not on a provisional licence. I have a full, clean, unrestricted driving licence in all 12 categories. This dosen't affect to me personally. I'm just interested in the subject.

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The Highway Code for Northern Ireland states that the accompanied driver must be "at least 21 years old who holds a full EC/EEA licence for that type of car and has held one for at least 3 years". (Law MV(DL)R Reg 12).

There is no reference to a specific UK licence.


Just to clarify lads, I'm not on a provisional licence. I have a full, clean, unrestricted driving licence in all 12 categories. This dosen't affect to me personally. I'm just interested in the subject.

OK, once more for the cheap seats:

DVLNI wrote:

Visitors

If you hold a valid Community licence and you are visiting Northern Ireland, you can drive any vehicle for as long as your licence remains valid. The appropriate full entitlement for the vehicle you wish to drive must be shown on your licence.

As you can see if you are a visitor to NI then you need to hold a FULL entitlement on your license for the vehicle you are driving. This means that if you are driving in the North on a provisional driving license then it must be a UK one.

Your quote from the highway code is pointless due to the fact that as a visitor only a full license is acceptable.

MrP

Stark

I could have sworn my first provisional said the "republic of Ireland" on it. I checked my second and it says "Ireland". Though the Irish text says "Éireann" which I believe specifically refers to the Republic in legal terms, and when there's ambiguity the Irish language version of law has precedence.

MrPudding

Stark wrote:

I could have sworn my first provisional said the "republic of Ireland" on it. I checked my second and it says "Ireland". Though the Irish text says "Éireann" which I believe specifically refers to the Republic in legal terms, and when there's ambiguity the Irish language version of law has precedence.

There may be ambiguity with regards to the wording on the license but there is none with regards to it's validity in the North. It is simply not valid.

MrP

redtom

Ta for all the research and info - we're goin Sligo route... (now where's my roadmap... )

redtom

p.s.

is there a website like AA's or something that shows all the latest by-passes throughout Ireland?

testicle

Much better road via Sligo anyway!

Gatster

The UK view NI as part of the UK whether it is attached to Ireland or not, irrespective of any ideals. There is a border (right or wrong) and once crossed you are under UK traffic laws. You can't drive legally in mainland England, Wales or Scotland or anywhere else in Europe with an Irish provisional unaccompanied or not (and quite right too). I imagine it would be similar in Spain/Gibraltar.

stovelid

I thought these lads were off the road since the peace process?

MrPudding wrote:

unaccompanied provo drivers.

Tony Danza

A provisional is definately not valid in the north. Can't seem to find on the internet where it says that but I remember when I was on a provisional I saw somewhere (probably the rules of the road book or something) that it wasn't valid and only remember that because I was kinda shocked, I would have thought it would be. Anyway doesn't really matter anymore since these guys are going through Sligo! Have fun!