Suburban Autos Ltd, Rathmines, steer clear...

Tipsy Mac

Pleaded guilty to clocking a car according to todays Irish Independent, this kind of thing really annoys me, a measly total of €1600 out of pocket for the garage for being caught for this crime makes it all the more worthwhile for them to continue the process:mad: ...

Logbook tells the truth in illegal car 'clocking' case

A CAREFULLY filled-in logbook left in a glove compartment proved the undoing for a dealer who had just sold a "clocked" car, a court heard yesterday.

The car's milometer had been tampered with to indicate it had only 47,000 miles, whereas the real figure was over 75,000 miles.

Suburban Autos Ltd, Mount Pleasant Avenue, Rathmines, Dublin 6, pleaded guilty to selling a vehicle with a false trade description in May 2004. The company was fined €400 with €1,100 costs and witness expenses.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1699587&issue_id=14722 (Free sub required)

crosstownk

I'm glad to see these guys getting caught. I've no time for people who add false value to a car in this manner.

But I do agree, the fine is just far to low. But the reputation that follows may be more damaging.

fletch

My Dad bought his last car off this crowd and has been very happy with it....he had intended buying off them again but I will be showing him that new story and I'm sure he might feel differently.

gyppo

I also agree the fine issued to this crowd was a joke. How many other cars have been sold by them with a dubious mileage history? I'd be very doubtful that this is the fist time it has happened, and they were caught on their first misdemeanour.
Deaers misrepresenting mileage on cars are commiting fraud, plain and simple, and there should be some form of legislation there to ban them from the business.

HashSlinging

To be honest the fine is nothing compared to the money they will lose in sales.

Tipsy Mac

HashSlinging wrote:

To be honest the fine is nothing compared to the money they will lose in sales.

Yes pity Revenue or Consumers Affairs don't have a published list of such dealers and a list of directors in their companies so we could all permanently avoid them, this would go along way towards reducing it.

Moby

This garage has now moved to Harolds Cross Road

Seth Brundle

There was something in todays Indo about the current Suburban CS being different to the one that was referred to in the above article.

TempestSabre

The fine is a joke.

N-Tray

Hi, I had put a deposit on a car with suburban autos, then saw this post and became very worried!
I phoned in a panic to cancel sale. They said they had a full service history, and faxed the cars' manual over to me. It shows when it was serviced, at what mileage and stamped from a reputable VW dealer, who I phoned and they confirmed the details from their computer records.
I drove away a wonderful bargain and I am delighted with it. This reputation is dogging the company as they sold on a car not knowing it was clocked. As a very satisfied customer i say give them a chance.
You should always check service history and this will tell you if it was clocked.

Henry Ford III

N-Tray wrote:

Hi, I had put a deposit on a car with suburban autos, then saw this post and became very worried!
I phoned in a panic to cancel sale. They said they had a full service history, and faxed the cars' manual over to me. It shows when it was serviced, at what mileage and stamped from a reputable VW dealer, who I phoned and they confirmed the details from their computer records.
I drove away a wonderful bargain and I am delighted with it. This reputation is dogging the company as they sold on a car not knowing it was clocked. As a very satisfied customer i say give them a chance.
You should always check service history and this will tell you if it was clocked.

Interesting this.

You are suggesting they sold on a clocked car with no knowledge of that. Are you sure that is the case?

Who clocked it I wonder?

Tipsy Mac

N-Tray wrote:

This reputation is dogging the company as they sold on a car not knowing it was clocked.

Why did they plead guilty then, if they unknowingly sold it on they would have pleaded innocent?

If it's a UK vehicle I hope you also got a HPI check done.

r3nu4l

Tipsy Mac wrote:

Why did they plead guilty then, if they unknowingly sold it on they would have pleaded innocent?

If it's a UK vehicle I hope you also got a HPI check done.

It doesn't matter that they unknowingly sold it as clocked, they are still guilty of selling a clocked car unfortunately...it may have been a mitigating factor and reason for such a low fine...or it could be complete BS and they knew it was clocked all along!

Either way, ignorance is not an excuse as far as the law is concerned.

N-Tray

Pleaded guilty because they sold the car, but could not track down whoever they bought it from, suppose they couldnt deny it.
The car reciept on the car i bought is from a dublin suppplier.

If a car you are buying has an english reg, its easier to check for clocking as there is a website (can't recall it at the mo) where you can check any UK reg and it will show you its history for a small fee.
I know someone who checked a Passat after they bought it, found it was clocked, and got a replacement car from the garage.

gyppo

You don't happen to work for this crowd, do you?.....................

Seth Brundle

N-Tray wrote:

Hi, I had put a deposit on a car with suburban autos, then saw this post and became very worried!
I phoned in a panic to cancel sale. They said they had a full service history, and faxed the cars' manual over to me. It shows when it was serviced, at what mileage and stamped from a reputable VW dealer, who I phoned and they confirmed the details from their computer records.
I drove away a wonderful bargain and I am delighted with it. This reputation is dogging the company as they sold on a car not knowing it was clocked. As a very satisfied customer i say give them a chance.
You should always check service history and this will tell you if it was clocked.

Did you read my post (#8) where it said that the current Suburban Car Sales is not the same as the one in the article?

zuutroy

kbannon wrote:

Did you read my post (#8) where it said that the current Suburban Car Sales is not the same as the one in the article?

I do recall there being two.

DonJose

N-Tray wrote:

Pleaded guilty because they sold the car, but could not track down whoever they bought it from, suppose they couldnt deny it.
The car reciept on the car i bought is from a dublin suppplier.

If a car you are buying has an english reg, its easier to check for clocking as there is a website (can't recall it at the mo) where you can check any UK reg and it will show you its history for a small fee.
I know someone who checked a Passat after they bought it, found it was clocked, and got a replacement car from the garage.

You seem to know a lot about this company, whats your affiliation with them? Added them to my list of companies to keep clear off, listed them above Michael Kelly auctioneers LOL

DonJose

kbannon wrote:

Did you read my post (#8) where it said that the current Suburban Car Sales is not the same as the one in the article?

They are both owned by same company.

http://www.suburbanautos.com/about_us.htm

Conveniently located showrooms at Church Avenue Rathmines and other premises at 258-260 & 306 Harolds Cross Road Dublin 6...

Seth Brundle

Crap. I made the mistake of believing the Indo. I feel so dirty!

Henry Ford III

I hope you have learned from the experience however kbannon;)

bbability

What about the fine and sentence handed down to the ex MD of a Dealership in the south of the country for running a price fixing cartel. Everyone knows its rampent in the main dealerships. Its just so hard to prove. I've been there trying to get the best cash deal on a new car. The difference between garages is tiny and I mean tiny..

Elessar

Clocking cars happens at pretty much every backyard/small time dealer in the country. It's even rampant on carzone, where it is so obvious. I saw a BMW for sale for 12k a while back 99000 miles clocked. It was up for many months. I saw it again about three weeks ago and the mileage was conveniently down to 81000. It actually sold, and some poor sucker thought he was getting a good deal.

I dont know why manufacturers haven't encrypted car computers yet to deal with this practice.

Jo King

I bought my current car from Suburban in Rathmines. I would not deal with them again. They did not describe the history of the car accurately and did not give a proper guarantee.

Seth Brundle

Jo King wrote:

I bought my current car from Suburban in Rathmines. I would not deal with them again. They did not describe the history of the car accurately and did not give a proper guarantee.

So why did you buy it?
Dodgy practices exist because people allow them to. I know our consumer legislation is weak especially when it comes to cars but even if we had the best protection it does not remove the onus on the buyer to make sure that they don't buy a lemon!

E92

Elessar wrote:

I dont know why manufacturers haven't encrypted car computers yet to deal with this practice.

I can't understand why they don't either. It's a shameful that they still haven't been able to solve this problem. I remember reading in some magazine a good while back that the ECU can in some cars detect if the odometer has been altered. Then again, just as it is with computer viruses, someone will always find a way to get around whatever the latest protection against mileage 'correctors' (as some clocking companies like to call themselves) car companies have to offer.

As Suburban Autos Ltd, its not the fine; its the publicity from it that will do the trick. The fact that we're discussing this on this board is proof of it. The more negative publicity they get, the more they will pay financially, as people won't want to deal with them.

Jo King

kbannon wrote:

So why did you buy it?
Dodgy practices exist because people allow them to. I know our consumer legislation is weak especially when it comes to cars but even if we had the best protection it does not remove the onus on the buyer to make sure that they don't buy a lemon!

I discovered more about the history of the car after I bought it. It was not information which was available prior to the purchase. They also pulled a stroke with the guarantee. The best form of consumer protection is reputation. I am simply mentioning my difficulties with this firm to warn others.

Capt'n Midnight

On the subject of other dodgy dealers.
Wasn't there a car dealer somewhere done recently for tax evasion or money laundering ?
I can't find the newspaper it was in though.

ballooba

That was a dealership in Tallaght Rathfarnham. The owner got involved with a criminal.

His name was James Naylor.

http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&ned=en_ie&ie=UTF-8&q=james+naylor+car+dealer&filter=0

Suburban Car Sa

Just to state suburban car sales ltd is a completly different company to suburban auto`s we are located on mountplesant ave rathmines. We are completly seperately owned fron suburban autos who trade in Harolds cross.This was stated in the Irish Indepdent.

ballooba

Suburban Car Sa wrote:

Just to state suburban car sales ltd is a completly different company to suburban auto`s we are located on mountplesant ave rathmines. We are completly seperately owned fron suburban autos who trade in Harolds cross.This was stated in the Irish Indepdent.

That's interesting because I was passing by your premises yesterday and remarked on the newspaper article. I was under the impression that the two garages were owned by the same person. Thanks for clearing that up.

Suburban Autos also have premises in Rathmines though? The one by the roundabout with the church in the middle.

Seth Brundle

Suburban Car Sa wrote:

Just to state suburban car sales ltd is a completly different company to suburban auto`s we are located on mountplesant ave rathmines. We are completly seperately owned fron suburban autos who trade in Harolds cross.This was stated in the Irish Indepdent.

Thanks for that.
Just for those who didn't get it:
Suburban Car Sales = nice
Suburban Autos != nice

Its unfortunate that you are both located on Mt. Plesant Ave and have similar names.

Pipster!!

Suburban Car Sa wrote:

Just to state suburban car sales ltd is a completly different company to suburban auto`s we are located on mountplesant ave rathmines. We are completly seperately owned fron suburban autos who trade in Harolds cross.This was stated in the Irish Indepdent.

I bought my current car off Suburban car sales (a 06 Ford Focus) only a few weeks ago, and I asked was this the same company that was convicted of clocking cars (I was feeling very brave!!), but this suburban car sales is not the same as the other one (in Harolds cross) (I checked this ten times before I bought the car) - you have no fear of buying of this crowd!! My dad who is a solicitor also checked out the ownership of these companies and they are totally separate (you are able to check this out in the companies office in Dublin Castle) The bad guy :mad: is Suburban Autos in Harolds Cross owned by Mr Webb (who was convicted in October in court for clocking) and the good people Suburban car sales is owned by Mr Smith on Mount Pleasant Avenue. This has been clarified by the Irish Independent, the guy I was dealing in there was a salesman called Derek. Lovely guy, genuine.

testicle

I think a rebrand is in order?

Jo King

Pipster!! wrote:

I bought my current car off Suburban car sales (a 06 Ford Focus) only a few weeks ago, and I asked was this the same company that was convicted of clocking cars (I was feeling very brave!!), but this suburban car sales is not the same as the other one (in Harolds cross) (I checked this ten times before I bought the car) - you have no fear of buying of this crowd!! My dad who is a solicitor also checked out the ownership of these companies and they are totally separate (you are able to check this out in the companies office in Dublin Castle) The bad guy :mad: is Suburban Autos in Harolds Cross owned by Mr Webb (who was convicted in October in court for clocking) and the good people Suburban car sales is owned by Mr Smith on Mount Pleasant Avenue. This has been clarified by the Irish Independent, the guy I was dealing in there was a salesman called Derek. Lovely guy, genuine.

I dealt with the same Derek. Never again!

Bradidup

They are nearly all at game, there are several "Instrument Calibration technicians" around the city and country including a well known one in a garage about two miles outside Loughrea on the Portumna Road that specialise in it. They charge from e150 for a Ford and up to e500 for an E series Mercedes. They know that their devious job can add thousands to the price of the car.

I trust absolutly no one in the motor trade. A competent mechanic can tell if a car has done more miles than stated, some simple clues would include, wear on the seats, pedals, brake disk wear, worn paint, tell tail marks around the dash, i.e. screws missing, steering play,screw driver marks, dust / finger marks inside clock, digits not aligning in the clock, service records, I was looking at a Punto from a dealer in Celbridge a month ago, the fool even left the clock disconnected!!. They are out there. The sooner they print mileage on registration books and doe/nct records the better.

zuutroy

Bradidup wrote:

The sooner they print mileage on registration books and doe/nct records the better.

They print em on the NCT certs, which is why I keep all of mine to show prospective buyers.

Saw this one on ebay and thought the alignment was very fishy

http://i3.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/91/bc/f06e_1.JPG

The ad says the car was reg'd in 1991 but not used until 1995 coz it was in the Toyota showroom! Very hard to believe that a car from 1991 (or 1995) has only done 37000.

$Leon$

Bradidup wrote:

. The sooner they print mileage on registration books and doe/nct records the better.

They do print the milage on the NCT from.

Bradidup

$Leon$ wrote:

They do print the milage on the NCT from.

I dont see it on my Doe cert.

zuutroy wrote:

Saw this one on ebay and thought the alignment was very fishy
The ad says the car was reg'd in 1991 but not used until 1995 coz it was in the Toyota showroom! Very hard to believe that a car from 1991 (or 1995) has only done 37000.

Thats one of the first give aways I mentioned, also theres probably dust visible inside the clock. Digital clocks are more sophisticated and involve computers and some can be docked without even opening the dash! A Technically legal scam they can get away with is to completly replace the clock in the dash, they can claim he origional was faulty!!!. Its been done on motorbikes.

$Leon$

Bradidup wrote:

I dont see it on my Doe cert.

I've never seen a DOE cert so i can't really comment. I don't have my NCT cert here but i'm 99.99% sure its on there.

Mc-BigE

$Leon$ wrote:

I've never seen a DOE cert so i can't really comment. I don't have my NCT cert here but i'm 99.99% sure its on there.

its printed on the top right of the white NCT report, not on the cert itself AFAIK

should always ask for these reports when buying a s/h irish car.

This information should be placed up on the NCT website free of charge for any buyer to see. its the least they could do for the money they charge us for a test.

Jocksy

They do print the milage on the NCT from.

Its meaningless.

My car has over 120k on the clock but the NCT cert says 80k due to it being clocked at the time and me not knowing about it.

Tipsy Mac

Jocksy wrote:

Its meaningless.

My car has over 120k on the clock but the NCT cert says 80k due to it being clocked at the time and me not knowing about it.

Can see where you are coming from, however if someone had service history and NCT certs with milage chances are it's a legit car. I know of alot of dealers that when you buy a car from them it's sold with NCT pass guaranteed and they actually bring your car in for the NCT and it passes fine, NCT certs goes walkabout but disc is put on windscreen. There also seems to be a certain "click" in the NCT centres when I have dropped cars in where dealers know the testers by name and all seems a little too brown envelopy.

Bradidup

Although the NCT/DOE take note of the mileage when you bring a car / van in for testing, will they not give out those details if you are a prospective buyer looking for that information?

testicle

No, and they make no stateent on whether the recorded milegae is genuine or not.