Car driver question on etiquette.

Archeron

Morning all,

Just a quick question I'd like your opinion on regarding car to motorbike etiquette on our fine congested roads.

Picture a situation where by there are two lanes of traffic heading in one direction, as per the M4/N4 inbound into Dublin. I find that motorbikes usually overtake the traffice in the left lane/undertake traffic in the right lane by heading straight up the centre between the two lanes of traffic. Fair enough. In order to try and make more space there, I would generally, (where safe) try to keep my car more on the left hand side of the left hand lane, thereby leaving a wider gap for bikes to go through.
However, this morning while two bikes were going past me on my right, where they usually are, another one was actually on my left hand side. As there are road works around that new Lucan pedestrian bridge, there wasnt much room on the left hand side of my car for him to undertake me, and there is no hard shoulder or bus lane here at the moment either.
When the road widened a bit and he managed to get by, still on my left, he shot me one of those looks that says that I'm an idiot and that I've done something wrong.

Question is, (and this is a genuine question). From a bikers point of view, when you are passing stationary traffic in a secnario like this, would there be a specific position you would always try to be in? Would you always go between the two lanes, or would you undertake in a non-existant hard shoulder like this guy did? I dont think I was in the wrong, but I'd rather know for sure.

seamus

As biker, I'd always make an attempt to pass between the lanes on a two lane carriageway. I would only undertake the on the extreme left if traffic was completely stationery and there were no other options. I would only overtake on the extreme right if the car I was overtaking was between lanes (e.g. when trying to move from RH into LH but the traffic is stopped). If there's no bus lane on the left-hand side, then overtaking moving traffic on the left is suicidal.

Fabritzo

He might have got stuck in there and couldn't get out, the traffic is pretty tuff at this time of year, it's hard to keep moving.

Drax

Dont mind him Archeron. The guy should not have been on the hard shoulder in the first place. Not worth getting steamed up over I always overtake on the right but on motorways I will 'overtake' up the middle. With caution of course!

Archeron

Cool, cheers for the replies all.

art

Yeah, unfortunately he/she just sounds like a bit of a plonker. Whatever about under-taking far left like that, the "dirty look" was ridiculous - nice car drivers often make attempts to make room for me and, if staying in control etc allows, I always like to give an appreciative wave. But a car driver who stays exactly where they are is perfectly entitled to do that too - I think it's fairly presumptive of the biker to think every car should be making room for him/her ...

Drax

art wrote:

I think it's fairly presumptive of the biker to think every car should be making room for him/her ...

True. True. However if I am going up the middle of say, the M50, without fail you will always find a cager who is sitting in the leftmost side of the right hand lane or the rightmost side of the left lane, effectively blocking my path. I would not have a problem giving a quick flash of the fullers or a short blast on the horn, more to make them aware of my location, rather than in anger.

Pigeon Reaper

The guy undertaking is an idiot. Whatever about filtering between lands going up the inside as you described is dangerous.

Steffano2002

I also try to overtake on the right but sometimes that is not possible so I might attempt undertaking on the left if I get stuck too long. What I love is when people actually pull to the left to let me through. It happens quite often and I always show my appreciation by stretching my left leg right after passing them out!
I think if all bikers did this we would have even more car drivers who make an effort to let us through on the right!

BTW, @ OP: You didn't do anything wrong and you didn't deserve a dirty look so don't worry. This particular rider was either having a bad day or riding a Ducati... :rolleyes:

skibum

Steffano2002 wrote:

What I love is when people actually pull to the left to let me through. It happens quite often and I always show my appreciation by stretching my left leg right after passing them out!

Often saw bikers doing this, used to wonder if they were stretching their legs , anyway when I'm in slow moving traffic and see a bike making progress I generally try to make a bit of room if it is safe to do so. It is nice to see that my move was appreciated, even if it appears that they are stretching their legs

nednedned

i always use full beam going between traffic.and they do pull over to give room.
now saying that.it is dangerous.as a number of times i had people change lanes
when i was close.why cant they let bikers use the hard shoulder.its not going to harm anyone.maybe at a reduced speed.so its safer.

cheers.................

NiSmO

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seamus

NiSmO wrote:

This post has been deleted.

If you're beside the first car in the queue, you open the throttle an burn him at the lights. Otherwise you slow down, indicate and attempt to rejoin the traffic flow. Usually people are slow to move off, so you'll be presented with room between the two nearest cars.

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

saobh_ie

Average two lane road, I probably wouldn’t go up the middle until the traffic is stopped. I might pass everybody on the offside if they’re moving slowly. Dual Carraigeway, up the middle if traffic is moving slowly enough, I won’t overtake on the nearside or the offside. Motorway, up the middle again.

Basically I will never pass on the left unless there’s traffic on my left although there are exceptions.

To the OP, doesn’t sound like you did anything to upset the biker, but everybody’s in a mood these days with the weather, and the kids, and the doubling of traffic. Also is it possible the dirty look was just a shoulder check? I tend to look at car drivers when I can, I also tend to have a bit of a serious expression when I’m out on the bike (combination of concentration, determination, fear, etc, etc.)

Nismo, If your finding it difficult to rejoin traffic try chucking out a hand signal, left hand chop or just point at the piece of tarmac you want. Cars usually respond better to hand signals than indicators when you want them to do something.

insomniac_32

I dont want to start a men vs women debate but i find that blokes tend to have their heads screwed on a lot better when it comes to moving in a bit to let a bike past and even let a bike out of a side road! In my experience women tend to look in their side mirror, see you comming and instead of pulling into the left or staying put they pull out forcing you to either onto the wrong side of the road or to jam on the brakes.Thing is im convinced they do it on purpose because I can see them looking at me in their mirror just before they pull out! Wenches.

seamus

insomniac_32 wrote:

I dont want to start a men vs women debate but i find that blokes tend to have their heads screwed on a lot better when it comes to moving in a bit to let a bike past and even let a bike out of a side road! In my experience women tend to look in their side mirror, see you comming and instead of pulling into the left or staying put they pull out forcing you to either onto the wrong side of the road or to jam on the brakes.Thing is im convinced they do it on purpose because I can see them looking at me in their mirror just before they pull out! Wenches.

In my experience, it's not that men are generally looking out more for bikers, it's a general difference in attitude.

Men in general tend to think, "Ah this poor fecker's been dealing with bastards all day, I'll let him in", or "This bastard will break my mirror if I don't let him in, poxy bikers". Whereas women tend to think, "Oh God this biker's an insane suicidal maniac. I'll just stay where I am in case I scare him by moving".

insomniac_32

seamus wrote:

In my experience, it's not that men are generally looking out more for bikers, it's a general difference in attitude.

Men in general tend to think, "Ah this poor fecker's been dealing with bastards all day, I'll let him in", or "This bastard will break my mirror if I don't let him in, poxy bikers". Whereas women tend to think, "Oh God this biker's an insane suicidal maniac. I'll just stay where I am in case I scare him by moving".

Scare him by moving lol. More like kill him by moving!:p